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In the past the biggest criticism of device is that people said he cant carry teams like zywoo and s1mple can. But clearly, hes shown that he can. He just didn't need to in 2018-19
He was never top1 hltv.
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when s1mple didn't have to carry his team in 2021 he still had those stats
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+1 lmao, kids just ignored that s1mple is just way more talented than device ever was
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and thats why dev1ce was 4 majors and s1mple only one(and its the first after pandemic when all the teams were shit)
You can see even they have 0 money they still chip all together to buy s1mple an ak so his stats dont suffer.
Astralis team with dev1ce and NAVI team with s1mple are totally diff- ones play for champions, the other play for s1mple stats(even he puts big numers).
well actualy he did, since boomblas performances were nowhere near being the same level as gla1ves in 2018 and even in 2019, and xyp9x as well a much more higher rated performance than perfecto in both 2018 and 2019
just to claim:
NaVi in 2021: s1mple - 1, electronic - 7, b1t - 9, Perfecto - outside Top 20, BoombI4 - outside Top 20
Astralis in 2018: device - 2, dupreeh - 5, Magisk - 7, gla1ve - 8, Xyp9x - 13
NaVi in 2021: 3 players in the top-10
Astralis in 2018: 5 players in the top-15, 4 in the top-10
Seems logical, doesnt it?
S1mple and Zywoo got mvps even when they lost some tournamets, dev1ce was unluckly to compete with them.
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Device never choked in finals like these 2
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New kid on the block?
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For me too, hes on top since first major.
device had all 4 teammates in top 15 with 4 being in top 8, how do you expect him to put up s1mple or zywoo numbers with teammates like that?
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+1
S1mple always had the best position to frag. A team with solid base who wins rounds for you when you die and sets up when you're alive.
ZywOo and device both lacked one thing. Device wasn't setup like s1mple and ZywOo's team couldn't win rounds with him dying
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He deserved top1 2018 in my opinion but S1mple was too much good also.
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you could also just say, xi wu s1 "only" 1 major. I don't think it really hinders him much when he was top 20 for so many years anyway, and top 3.
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Yeah, it's the argument to make, definantly, but it really depends how much you value x and y,
For example dev1ce has his event wins, but S1mple has strongest MVP ever, more MVPs, 3x top 1 2x top 2 and others, while devve's "peak" is like 6x top 5 in a row, with 4x top 3 and 1x top 2, you could also argue s1mple's cologne win but that's minute, ofc then you have peak, and s1mple has hard carried teams like devve never has. But the majors are a big argument, I get it, it's really subjective tbh. I get either.
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imo the longevity is still unmatched, and he's not that far behind simple in MVP's he just got overtaken last year i think it was. And those 4 majors are not anything to scoff at. I think that says a lot. Also why i would put dupreeh very high because he has 5, has attended every major and still played well in Paris, the most important tournament.
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The longevity is only matches by that of S1mple / ZywOo, and I'd argue S1mple overtakes him in the matter if anything, and ZywOo on route too, but still, nothing short of impressive, NiKo a little behind in that arguement too. I think it also matters in the context, like in Paris sure dupreeh won, but you'd be lying if you said he was a VITAL piece in that major win, it's all what if and that but it's a convo to be had.
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i still think device clears in longevity because he was there all the way back in 2012 (even source). Started playing t1 in 2013 before cs even had it's first major. Simple didn't get a footing until 2014/15 got in top 20 first in 16. So overall device has superior longevity imo.
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Sure fair, but in that case would f0rest have longevity over both of these? I don't think when you start should have a matter in the fact.
If ZywOo now goes on to get say, top 1, in 2023 and 2024. He will BY FAR have the greatest longevity and consistancy in all of counter strike, no doubt, there's literally no convo. But he started late, which I don't think should matter, just more the level, and quantity of years.
S1mple before even hitting top 1 was a beast and hard carried, just wasn't in a superteam to hit top 1. If we compare 1-1, Devve's peak in longevity / consistancy is top 5 6 years in a row right, 4x top 3, 1x top 2, and 1x top 5,
While S1mple's peak is 5 years, 3x top 1, 2x top 2, S1mple takes it no doubt,
And outside of peak, S1mple rifling got top 8, and then top 4 with an AWP, while devve got top 20 and top 11. Dev1ce has the year but S1mple is just consistantly better, despite being a year or two down, almost being a top 8 player in every year of his pro career.
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Yes absolutely forest clears all. I don't think top 1/2/3 matters a lot. At the very top the differences between players are rarely huge. To me longevity just means playing at a high level for as long as possible. Forest was a 1.6 legend, before being csgo legend.
People need to understand forest started playing competitively in 2005. He was a *decade* into his career in 2015. That is fucking crazy.
Simple has the longest * highest peak of any player for sure, but simply speaking very high lvl CS, in any game, for the longest forest clears both, device clears simple IMO.
This matters a lot to me because CS is a team game. It reflects you being a good player, and a fantastic teammate.
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I don't know, I hear you out, but longevity is little without the peak consistancy, which not to say f0rest didn't have the peak of s1mple, but I don't think it's very closely comparable. We clearly have different bias' / subjective opinions, as it should be and we don't see it with the same values, I respect your opinion on the matter though. Have a good day.
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Thank you men).
To me longevity just means overall performance for a long time. For example if a player had a 1.05 rating consistently for 10 years i would say that player has very good longevity because many players careers don't even last 10 years, let alone at above average. Most people fizzle out as the skill ceiling increase.
This is what makes the true GOATS of the game, the ones that keep defining the skill ceiling, who aren't chasing it.
I also respect your views, and opinions thanks for talk.
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I hate that.
CSGO is the only sport/eSport. where people put 3rd Party's rating over official tournament wins to justify GOAT status.
I am a big advocate of Number of Ring/Majors = Major MVP/Final MVP >Grand Slam (for CSGO)>MVPs> individual stats. If you want me to believe that your player is a GOAT he should have at least 1st 3 (except some older generations who didnt have GS can skip it) to be in conversation about it.
or maybe...skill
I mean sure, it's all relative, perhaps it's unfortunate for Devve he didn't find the peak in the right time and had to play vs a monster for the top 1, but still. I don't think it's exactly a fair comparison either, S1mple had like half the maps and played entirely different events, I just don't see how you can compare it in this sense when the two had to play entirely different competition yknow? You could make the argument S1mple still has a strong shot of winning it in 2022 s1 vs 2018 devve due to all the factors but, it depends.
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NGL,
I dont respect HLTV no. 1 spot. Its a 3rd party thing. Unless Valve comes out with definition of best player of CSGO award. I am not buying it.
I follow simple team sports rule for GOAT.
No. Of rings/Championships/Major > No. of Finals MVP/ Major MVP > MVPs> individual stats. When you have a tie in 1st category, you move to 2nd category, when you tie there then you move the 3rd etc etc.
But to each their own.
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Well if you feel so, I can't convince you otherwise. Of course a HLTV rating won't be exactly concise to perfection, but you know it's very accurate, and you don't even have to look at it to determine, do your own eyetest, and you tell me who was the more skilled player of what year.
To me its clear, HLTV or no HLTV.
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that's the thing with eye test.
Players come in with the Eye test of Best of all time. Win nothing. Retire.
Eye test was correct but their resume is incomplete. You pick any player that is in conversation of GOAT (except Maradona guy is an outlier) They will have Team accomplishments along with individual accomplishments but not all will have that no.1 spot. Magic Johnson never had a scoring title but he still one the GOATs cause he has team accomplishments and individual accomplishments. He was the 2nd scorer but that doesn't takes away any of his credibility of being One of the GOATs.
I just hate how player call him most accomplished player and not a goat. where as the most accomplished player in the game is the GOAT. His Accomplishments are the sign of GOATness.
devve is like leonardo di caprio in movie life.
After all the success of the movies he starred in they finally decided to make a movie where Leo gets Oscar, just to boost him.
The movies won shit ton of prizes even tho Leo didn't get the individual award of Oscar. Same goes for devve, won everything for his team while he never had the #1 spot.
Looking at him now, he could easily get it if he performs like this. People tend to think he is individually as good as s1 or zybro even tho he has shown till -14 that he is if he needs to be.
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because hltv rating is calculated based on each players performance in biggest events. having better players allows a player to win and get mvp easily. just look at 2021 s1mple, 2023 zywoo, 2018 device, 2015 olof, 2016-2017 coldzera.
but zywoo still reached top 2 4 times, without those help from top players unlike others.
rating is for people who cant make sense out of the game or estimate a players skill level without it. rating is for people who only want to be right with 1/3 of the info and think they are 100% right in discussions.
they miss use or overcredit ratings a lot. ratings are actually there to assist in painting the full story of match. note: assist
ratings by themselves tell half the story at best.
I wish more hltv people would get this. to me this is common sense as your grow up.
so I know how you feel when you say “I will never get why people put so much emphasis on HLTV rating but okay” because sadly I understand very well why they do it.
in return they sadly dont understand the function of ratings.
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#132
Those bots didn't know how to shoot
He had always major winner in his team even when we exclude Apex
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major winners in fuking 2015. its like kscerato having fallen in his team. its doesn't matter. how you playing at that point matters. not past history.
first time zywoo got an actual top 20 plyer on his team was in 2022,but spinx was top 20 because of his performance in ence, not because of his performance in vitality.
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Personally it's easy to be have insane rating when you are carrying your team.
S1mple had insane 1.35 and 1.30 when he was carrying his team.
Zywoo had 1.30 and 1.32 when he was carrying his team.
With b1t stepping in and electronic always on his side his rating dropped to 1.26
Let's see what is zywoos rating at the end of the year. Won't be surprised if it's under 1.30
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what? dude s1mple had his highest rating and mvps when b1t was with him as a top 10 player along with electrnic.when both of them fell off, s1mples' rating dropped to 1.26 last year
zywoo is having his highest rating after spinx is also playing like a top 10 player.
img-cdn.hltv.org/gallerypicture/YUMREIqA..
img-cdn.hltv.org/gallerypicture/W-jvvDDm..
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No
2 factors are important (apart from farming low tier teams or groups)
1. Your team wins rounds otherwise you'll be on eco(makes ZywOo's run so much impressive)
2. Your team sets you up(even if your team got good players if you get baits and setups you're still gonna farm no matter how much your teammates kill or perform)
Obviously if you're setup by a bot team, you'll get disadvantage in the first criteria while being setup by a strong team always results in strongest stats and otherwise either you're just farming by baiting whole team or you're just impressive like ZywOo
Let me tell you dumbo
During all those year every single player on his team either had minimal kd diff(like 10-15) or was negative throughout the year, mostly negative (1 or 2 had positive)
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I am gonna stop supporting Astralis if BlameF leaves.
Assh0les org brought in a lurker when they already a good lurker with them than goes on put Xyp on the absolute Garbage roles of his life time cause why... "TEAM NEEDS IT FOR BLAME AND K0NFIG to succeed." He without being a dick does whatever team wants. Now you move him to talent and replace the player that replaced after 6 months is BS and Somebody should disband Astralis.
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if you recall those messages that RL posted in the HUNDEN files, Astralis management (Kasper Hvidt) really pushed the purchase of BennieF.
They really underestimated the non-existent dynamics of BennieF at the time. Xyp was made the scapegoat of the story, since Bennie was 'destined' to be their superstar.
If true and BennieF gets sold this summer, there might be a small silver lining on these dark clouds. Xyp is still under contract, if he starts doing what he's good at again, we might see him again.
AST really need to push Kasper Hvidt out thru the backdoor. He pushed his own agenda at all expenses. He made the shady unofficial arrangements with HUNDEN (who imo still is one of the best tactical masters in the game), and Hvidt is the one that pushed xyp away.
ngl, I can see them develop in time for CS2 into a serious contender again.
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i mean, to some extent i can see you want to sign Bennie, especially since Zonic, dupreeh and magisk were leaving, you need to get a big personality back.
but i reckon all of the people involved (Hvidt, Hunden and glaive) underestimated the effect of Bennie and xyp in the same team.
And in the end, they all had to bleed for it, for a long ass while.
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whats wrong with blamef? I mean i noticed a lot of people disliking him for their self proclaimed baitf style i dont view it that way.
yes he has a style but also he is good at it. its one of the ingridients of a team so let
him. yes its a problem with role clashes on the team but that wasnt my decision in the first place. add steahr im all for it but why remove blamef now unless he wants to leave and the team wants it and the org needs the money. or something along these lines.
viewing their current team now I would remove buzz for steahr. defiantly not blamef.
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I dislike him for moving Xyp9x out of lurk role and into garbage man role. But that's a personal bias.
Rumor has it there are internal differences with BlameF and org. And I would be pissed if leave now. I would be pissed at him but I would pissed at org even more. He is brought in ruins my favorite legacy, goes without showing anything. Disband astralis.
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Do you remember when S1mple had Edward??
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was a really bad time
he is not a hard carry. Sure he improves any team but that doesn't make him a hard carry
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40+ kills and 13-1 opening duels=Not a carry
NICE BRAIN
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on what?? online tournaments?
Where were his carry skills on the major??
oh right
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the c9 that is mentally done and wouldn't win vs a tier 4 team right now. okay
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It is a different between decent and be a hard carry.
im not device hater by any means but which team did he carry on his own to what? just asking...
his stats are insane but i don't see the impact in the same way as a zywoo or s1mple. how is he going +20 in games that he still loses? it could come down to his teammates underperforming but I simply don't see device as a highly impactful player.
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Bro he is literary playing 1vs9 by now. BaitF just baiting 4 stats as usual. Glave is completely lost. The other two are average noobs.
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gotta agree with you, his performance should be enough for them to win games, my point though is still that he isn't as impactful as his stats say.
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40+ kills and 13-1 opening duels, what more do u want
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you're missing my point
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I won't say he's the goat but WE CAN'T DENY he's the most consistent player IN THE HISTORY OF CS GO. Almost 10 years playing on a high level and not showing signs of choking. It's impressive
ppl keep mentioning s1mple needing to hard carry in 2018 but he had peak electronic with him at his side
this is actually one of the few cases in csgo history where 1 guy carries and the other 4 are playing like bots
he did carry astralis a lot in 2018-2019, you just didn't watch cs back then
Where has he shown that he can carry?
Against Liquid and Cloud9 he was equal with blameF, and while he had insane stats against ENCE (especially against ENCE) and MOUZ, they still went on to lose both matches.
Maybe we just have different ideas about what a carry is, but for me a carry is someone who can rise above and nullify the bad game of his teammates to still get the victory at the end.
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Blame is hindrance to the team
1.42 rating in the event is not a carry
He is the GOAT together with ZywOo. No one's close to these two.
yeah but he's not carrying them to anything thats the difference, s1mple carried navi in 2018 to a cologne as well as way more in 2018-2020, zywoo carried vitality to be relevant in t1 and to win trophies
dev1ce is carrying astralis to iem dallas playoffs...
i think he's a greater player than zywoo but he isnt on the level of s1mple or zywoo as an individual
Dev1ce is good, but nothing compared to S1mple and Zywoo, he cant solo carry as hard why he is worse individual, Shiro and M0nesey also better.
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in 2023, s1mple isnt carrying the team. Just getting exit frags, saving and baiting to keep his rating over 1.15
Device is THE GOAT !
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