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Death of Tier 1 Good or Bad?
Niger BMW_Master_Race 
As we all now, nowadays there are no tier 1 teams consistently competing at a high level as we've seen in years past. Is the lack of high level play in tier 1 good for CS? On one hand it makes matches more random, with many "tier 2" teams having the ability to compete with teams at the top, but on the other hand the over all skill level of teams is lower. There are no consistent juggernauts with great teamplay or a high level of individual skill anymore. Is this good or bad for the life of CS, and is it good or bad for the overall viewing experience?
2023-06-08 21:33
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its good for the life of cs and it might be (not for everyone) bad for vieweing experience
2023-06-08 21:36
It's terrible
2023-06-08 21:37
Its bad for csgo ever becoming respectable sport. Its good if it leads tier1 to change their ways to find solutions how to consistently not suck time after time.
2023-06-08 21:38
1 reply
2023-06-08 22:36
Qatar PSG_Top1
bad it would show that the skill ceiling of cs has been reached
2023-06-08 21:39
1 reply
+1 valve knows this which is why we have cs2 after astralis era making the game insanely util reliant there is nothing else to improve cs being extremely util reliant makes the game boring and caps the skill ceiling
2023-06-09 00:03
I think thats bs honestly. CS has never been as tactical as it is right now, we've seen even asian teams like IHC come up with very structurally sound strats and good T side calls. Its just that the tier 2 teams now kinda caught up to the meta, so there are no more juggernauts that wont lose, which is good imo, its never fun seeing a one sided spank
2023-06-08 21:40
17 replies
What would be your explanation for those same tier 2 teams constantly losing online to tier 3 and 4 teams? Are those tier 4 teams also caught up with the meta and would compete against top teams?
2023-06-08 21:42
15 replies
Nope, there is still a difference between tiers, just less of a difference. on bo1 tho there might aswell be no difference
2023-06-08 21:44
1 reply
So the explanation for tier 1 teams constantly losing as massive favorites is that the underdogs got better, but then the underdogs go back to being favorites in CCT tournaments and they're losing too? Doesn't quite check out
2023-06-08 21:45
Pakistan Piano
because they care more about the major than CCT
2023-06-08 23:09
12 replies
What about all the tier 1 tournament qualifiers they drop out of against the same CCT teams? They don't play any tier 1 tournaments, what exactly do they care about if not the only tournaments they play? They just troll for 6 months every year waiting for the major to come up? xD
2023-06-08 23:11
11 replies
Pakistan Piano
Yes, they obviously try harder for the major. You are not very smart.
2023-06-08 23:12
10 replies
Try harder for major = dont try at all for any other matches? HLTV user checks out
2023-06-08 23:20
9 replies
interz | 
Other prav
No, for the major they're absolutely full focus and on the other tournaments they are a bit more loose in terms of practice and strat crafting. Playing every match like it's the major the whole year will lead to burnout.
2023-06-08 23:58
Pakistan Piano
I never said that. Terrible attempt.
2023-06-09 00:17
7 replies
Piano from hypixel?
2023-06-09 05:15
1 reply
Pakistan Piano
2023-06-09 05:46
then your response is meaningless. You might as well have told me what your favorite color was and it'd be just as relevant to the topic
2023-06-09 08:17
4 replies
Pakistan Piano
You made up an argument and tried to act like I said it. Take your medication now.
2023-06-09 10:45
3 replies
2023-06-09 19:45
2 replies
Pakistan Piano
medication now
2023-06-09 19:52
1 reply
I would say the same but I don't know if you guys have medication over there beyond eating random berries and mushrooms
2023-06-09 19:54
> Its just that the tier 2 teams now kinda caught up to the meta they were always with the meta, they just werent being invited due to partnered leagues and selective team selection by conflicts of interests from top teams. The past couple years exposed how shady the top teams really had a strangle hold over majors to protect themselves. This is also why CS2 was released, to get away from these Tier 2 teams.
2023-06-09 00:15
it didnt die , ppl just trippin cause some bad teams peaked earlier / super exhausted
2023-06-08 21:41
There are a lot more good teams at the higher level (tier1-3) which is why the gap is smaller. In 2015 if you were outside the top20 you would not even be mentioned in rankings, and wouldn't get payed either. Faceit did a lot to help grow the top player community, it's reasonable to say that you have a lot more opportunity to go pro nowadays compared to 2014-2015 because the game is a lot bigger and you have better exposure as a player. People think it's harder to go pro nowadays but it's actually the opposite. Tier1 teams also lacked a lot of exposure to more lower teams and seem to have gotten complacent, I still think you can improve the top lineups a lot to have more stacked teams. I believe in CS2 the first two years after some shuffles you'll have another dominant team form like in the past in CS GO in tier1.
2023-06-08 21:48
Good and it's pure Logic I also think it's very good before CS2, having New storyline, New starplayer etc is refreshing
2023-06-08 21:47
7 replies
This would check out if we were creating new storylines and having new star players, but what is is currently is just teams losing at random and then the lower teams that won go back to being bad again. No new stars are being created and no new good teams are being created. Monte, ITB, GamerLegion, and Apeks have already gone back to being mediocre tier 2 online teams and it hasn't even been a month yet. Hell, even Vitality has gone back to being bad again.
2023-06-08 22:19
6 replies
You've never compete at high level or even read about it. For every sports, when you have an goal raising your expectation, adrenaline, focus, training for month it's just NORMAL to drop your focus and investment after that especially when you won. I swear people like you who think that players are robots who can just repeat the same level every game just because they are good when they peak are litteraly ignorant people. You don't know what it takes to be the best, how complexe being a tier 1 pro is, you litteraly view the game like pros just launching face it in front of 10k people with a few strats Vitality back to being bad, like for 6 month they woke up every day thinking about the major. The organisation put A LOT of pressure on the players. They won despite all of that and you think they will come back to play fuckling blast washington before the playerbreak with the same focus and energy ? Are you fuck you ? iM, Boros, are 100% futur top 20 player, Suihy, Kyxsan are the futur of IGL in tier one. Cypher is interesting too. and that's only from the playoff You're just a fan of storyline and big names, not a fan of counter strike
2023-06-08 23:06
5 replies
Only need to read the first two sentences to realize you have no clue what you're talking about. No other major esport in the world has the issue CS is currently having. I guess CS players are the only ones that get tired and they all get tired at the same time xD Better luck next time buddy
2023-06-08 23:08
4 replies
It happens in major sports too. Look at football: Messi and Ronaldo were the exception to the rule, but other players peek and last maybe 1-2 or 3 year at max. I really think the bar is higher than ever and so making it more competitive. The analisis and depth of the game is much deeper. That is why you don't get One team eras anymore, or you get 3-6 months "eras". After a period of time other teams catch up and just anti-strat.
2023-06-09 06:32
bro wont even listen to the other side lmaoooo
2023-06-09 08:23
You are sad funny fella, being on this thread just to argue with literally everyone lmao
2023-06-09 11:00
1 reply
You don't have a single recent comment where you aren't arguing with someone. Just mad you're wrong lol
2023-06-09 19:46
It just shows the game has matured. Not necessarily a good or a bad thing.
2023-06-08 21:47
3 replies
Supposed top teams getting smashed by randoms and then those same randoms going on to get smashed by teams outside of the top 100 is not a great look for CS. New viewers are not going to see that and go "Hey, I guess this team ranked #50 just got really good this week". This is not a thing in any other major esport that has existed for longer than CSGO
2023-06-08 22:18
2 replies
zet | 
Poland n3on_
Exactly bro. Unfortunate truth about this game is that cheating is the way in everything here as of late. You always find cheaters in 1 form or another. Even when you are a pro player you can matchfix.
2023-06-08 22:43
Most esports have pretty closed systems, but yes I still know what you mean. Not a good thing in big picture. Also even if we take most random game like PUBG, the great seem to be good more often than not in that game. And thats partly because the mechanics take longer to master, but the system also rewards consistency over peaks.
2023-06-08 22:45
yea except it's all in your head, there's not more variability now than last year or the year before
2023-06-08 23:08
3 replies
2023-06-08 23:12
2 replies
Take all matches between teams at least 10 spots apart from each other in the hltv ranking, then look at the proportion of those matches won by the lower team My bet is you'll see no significant difference between this year and previous years If you do, i will personally paypal you
2023-06-08 23:18
1 reply
Yea I'll get right on that just give me a decade or two
2023-06-08 23:21
What is a T1 team though? Is it a partner Org? If that’s the definition then EG and Col are T1. A T1 team is the one that is currently performing well, at the moment that’s not the “traditional teams”, but that’s good for the CS scene as a whole because it helps to keep things moving forwards.
2023-06-08 23:09
3 replies
teams that consistently qualify for t1 tournaments and are competitive against other teams that consistently qualify for t1 tournaments
2023-06-08 23:22
2 replies
Sweden Mendiy
I dissagree, Tier 1 should be teams that QUALIFY for tier 1 tournaments.
2023-06-08 23:39
1 reply
....? how is that any different from what I just said lol
2023-06-08 23:40
schizo thread
2023-06-08 23:10
Sweden Mendiy
Its amasing, tier 1 still exists, we just see who deserves their place and who doesnt. And also, Esport is an official sport in sweden as of this month, thats worth a drink!
2023-06-08 23:38
Flag. Why is anyone replying to an Indian thread?
2023-06-08 23:59
2 replies
indians are the richest ethnic group in the US and its not even close
2023-06-09 00:05
1 reply
They are shit posters with worse CS takes than Danes.
2023-06-09 00:18
Invalid argument, it is non existant. T1 is still ahead of t2.
2023-06-09 00:06
Good, its more fun going in to an event having no clue who's gonna win, almost thorugh entire csgo scene you always knew it was basically the top 1 or 2 teams winning without too much fail. That is just not the case anymore.
2023-06-09 05:19
if youre a fan of all aim no brain then yes good thing i prefer slow methodical rounds where device gets to hold an angle for a whole minute
2023-06-09 05:25
It is good I think. CSGO reached its skill ceiling, but you see, also happened with football. You see some random teams like Elche beating Barcelona or Real Madrid, or some teams like Leeds beating Man City from time to time. That is why teams in football, the so called giga clubs, bought so many superstars and good players to be able to beat consistently the lower table teams. It is gonna happen in CS, where superteams are gonna be a normal thing. The same as in NBA, we have seen it with Miami,Golden State etc. I think one day its gonna boost the viewership, if not, than they should franchise the teams like they did in Valorant.
2023-06-09 05:30
1 reply
So called superteams are very hard to achieve imo. First you need an organization with tons of money ,that wants to spend the money on an already close to non-profitable sport and what matters even more is that this superteam has to have chemistry to work. The so called superteams in the past never worked that well
2023-06-09 19:57
it's bad and unprofessional when teams show up to events looking like they're me turning up to work on a monday morning with no energy no hype no prep, probably too many events on their schedule or just no drive because you're getting paid either way
2023-06-09 06:03
Idk. Everything will change when CS2 is released
2023-06-09 06:11
CS skill ceiling has shrunk but the skill floor has raised. Even though the ceiling has shrunk, innovation has risen to make new tactics, plays, boosts, etc. so much more important - which is good and fun. The skill floor raising is a good thing. Dominant Era's aren't good or enjoyable to watch, it makes things become stale. Astralis Era was fantastic and impressive - but it's not fun to go into a tournament saying 'yea astralis winning this'. Much like Na'Vi & FaZe in 2021 and 2022. The expansion of "Tier 1" is a great thing for CS. Teams like ENCE and MOUZ actually beating big names is very good for CS both as a viewer and also as a business. It incentivises other orgs to look into CS to pick up a team because they don't immediately look at who the best 3 teams are and think well what's the point? Everyone isn't beating everyone, at least not regularly. There's still a pretty clear-cut Top 5 teams in the world where there needs to be a mega underperformance from them or a mega overperformance from the underdog for them to win. Vitality, Na'Vi, FaZe, Heroic & G2 are pretty safe picks to say that one of them is gonna win each tournament they go into. But it's not a bad thing to have several other teams break that barrier and challenge the big dogs and also win themselves - at least if they do it consistently (hence why I didn't mention Monte, GL, Apeks etc. who still fumble in Tier 2 & 3 semi-regularly) TLDR: Good thing. TLDR 2: Everyone just stop complaining when your favourite team loses to a team that's weaker than them on paper, competition is good, it only makes teams work harder and play better because they then realise matches aren't as free as they previously thought.
2023-06-09 06:13
bad cuz t1 teams gettin lazy
2023-06-09 08:20
say that AFTER tier2 teams actually won tier1 tournaments
2023-06-09 08:25
Sweden doomdane
Its definitely good, who actually wants all high tier events to be the same top teams? T2 teams are hungry and can exploit being "unknown". I hope to see a lot of new teams pop up in the top 10 for cs2.
2023-06-09 08:26
2023-06-09 08:36
I think that in any competition/sport worth mentioning, the top ~10 to 15 are way ahead of the others, and for them to lose to a tier 2 competition is very rare. Football, basketball, boxing, you name it. There are always those who are the best and consistently beat tier 2 opponents, and losing to a tier 2 opponent happens only once in a blue moon. But here in CS, tier 1 teams get rolled over and get spanked all the time. So either tier 1 need to get better, or CS isn't so competitive. I believe the former.
2023-06-09 10:54
5 replies
If it s not competitive why you are not in a top 100 team
2023-06-09 11:52
4 replies
Why do you sit when you pee?
2023-06-09 11:58
3 replies
It s not competitive but you can t do shit except talking about things you have no Idea just like comentators in any sports , and 95% of the casual fans
2023-06-09 12:21
2 replies
If anybody can beat anyone, it's not competitive, it's a clown fiesta. It's a game based more on random chance than skill. Check football, who wins the Champions League most of the time? Only a few teams. Who wins the World Cup? Only a few teams out of 100+ countries. And football is the most viewed game on Earth. So having a few tier 1 teams that are above the others isn't bad at all. I said I believe that the current tier 1 teams in CS are to a large extent frauds, and are far from the true ceiling of CS
2023-06-09 12:43
1 reply
but in football regional championship it happen frequently .. we are lucky there is not enought money yet to make team with zywoo s1mple niko ropz + a igl who can t loose to tier 2. the game will be even more boring and less competitive as the richest org buy all the best players and make other teams weakers , it s not there yet.
2023-06-09 13:19
England DB_R20
I think ultimately it's a good thing. I think that people are seeing new players and different talents and it ultimately raises the skill ceiling of the game!
2023-06-09 11:03
If the level is low it should be easy for you to make a top 30 team ..try it ..
2023-06-09 11:54
CS is like Poker at the moment, any t1 team can wina tournament and most t2 teams actually got a low% chance too
2023-06-09 19:57
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