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purely hypothetical
I was wondering with a friend recently what G2 would do if NiKo magically decided to leave tomorrow to Vitality or something
obviously the conditions are that everyone stays who's currently there, at least before the next break, and the main goal in the "current" playerbreak is to replace NiKo
what would they do? find a 1/1 replacement but worse? find a different player entirely and shift the roles?
maybe frozen idk
would be like when device left astralis
decent players left but still falls apart probably
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frozen has also been lurking for the past year on mouz and had like one of the lowest entry attempt rate at cologne.
The only top entry rifler other than NiKo is rain
after that its either dupreeh or new prospects like flamez, iM, cypher, boros, patsi, flit, mezi, keoz
still other names like yekindar, jkaem is also up there, roej,
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I agree with you and I've made this point before, but he's just doing his best ropz impression because he's so much ahead of the bots around him that he might as well just farm, seeing that going for a NiKo style wouldn't yield results
I mean NiKo himself with a 10x better team often just goes down his opponents' throats for nothing
I just think that frozen is capable of that
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First of all I dont think entrying and taking space wouldnt yield results for a good player on a bad team. When NiKo had the highest entry attempt rate in the world even over players like arT and nafany, he was dragging the shit g2 roster with hunter, nexa, amanek, and jackz kicking and screaming to a major finale and only lost to prime s1mple doing a 1.5 rating. That roster literally looked completely clueless when NiKo wouldnt find them a 5v4 advantage, imagine if he had been lurking.
I think the entry role is just the hardest role and thats why there are so many flash in a pan players. Friberg and fer only had 2 years and disappeared. Many other players had a year or even less. Thats why I think its scary for vitality to bet on flamez and navi to bet on iM.
The only 3 entry players that have been consistent through their entire career has been NiKo, rain, and dupreeh.
Players adapt, apex went igl. Elige, electronic, frozen all became more passive and either took up the second man in or lurk roles.
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My point was mostly that I'm not sure he would be. I think he changed roles for a reason.
And I dont think any top rifler can entry, I mean just look at current C9. Ax1le has been entrying on the new C9 roster and it looks awful compared to when he was lurking on the previous roster. And Ax1le is the player who was called the second best rifler after NiKo by most.
Frozen, electronic, and elige obv did it before so theres a bigger reason to think they could do it
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frozen has been lurking for a while, but he has also done some entrying, and he was still nuts when he used to entry. ropz-like roles are just more standard for a star rifler and frozen is clearly a flexible player, top of the server no matter what he does, he was rolling teams on entry attempts in Cologne even if he didn’t do the most of them. A lot of other riflers aren’t proven as entries but I think frozen def is
Without Niko I think the team collapses. Niko is the glue I think (not sure) that keeps it going with a roster that is decent, but IMO not complete. His vet status and longevity and dedication keep that team afloat. I like most of them, but I feel like they'd collapse hard without him.
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true, maybe he is some kind of glue in that team. I mean, he was one of the guys to say that HooXi should stay, and that turned into an IEM Cologne win. Him going would be devastating to G2. I like the thought of frozen. There is not really anyone to do what he does. He is pretty unique in what he does.
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I like frozen too, but G2 collapses w/o Niko. Hooxi can't control a team nor is he that guy in a leadership aspect (not talking IGL). I don't think Hooxi is a problem. They just need whatever Adderall they were taking during their last event and they'll do fine. Honestly though a lot of these teams, you can see how cold they are when they're playing, not sure how you fix that, but I firmly believe it is a part of some of the upsets we see. Thirsty T3/T2 teams resting, waking up early, practicing beforehand, reviewing whatever it is they come in HOT and only get hotter. And by the time you warm up it is too late and you've lost your home map.
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Adderall might be the secret of g2 lol ^^. I mean HooXi is definetely the charismatic and emotional dude to get the team going. He is talented in utilizing the guys when they just hit their shotsan ride on momentum. But if there isn't a NiKo that goes 25+ kills a map pretty regularly, I cant even see frozen replacing him unfortunately... if it has to be frozen, you have to get an IGL that has more impact to be honest.
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I'm of the belief that all IGLs are overrated in what they bring to the team. Yes it is important to have a caller because a bad strategy is better than no strategy, but they're not the difference maker in the output of their players abilities and none are truly smart enough to outthink the other team's IGL.
Frozen would be a good addition, but even if he posts the exact same stats as Niko it doesn't keep them together. I really think they'd fall apart without him. Hooxi would for sure collapse not skill-wise, but would let the team just do what they want and they'd for sure suffer for it.
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I agree on the IGL point
I do believe that every team needs to find the perfect fit for their IGL, which doesn't always have to be the best tactician or the best leader, just whatever the team needs
I also believe that there isn't a hall of fame lineup (multiple prestige events won) that didn't have at least two other super intelligent players doing a lot of the mid rounds and micromanaging the anchor of their site if that needs to be done
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I think you're correct that there has to be someone making that call who is decent at it for sure, but that their value is overstated. Any plan given to a team playing well organizes the players and makes for a chance of success, but that intelligence behind whatever choice you made is overstated. If you decide to lean A, and play B retake or the exact opposite or tell someone to flank through middle and play retake on both sites it doesn't take the most intelligence and the fact that ANY of those calls are made increases your chance at success, but the specific one you choose makes no difference. They're not out there thinking oh I heard the classic Dosia flash, which means he isn't mid, and is now near A ramp, which isn't his normal spot, and because Bobby killed Timmy on long they must be looking to do an A split. Nah lol they're just taking the basic ability and skill setup and numbers with and relying on sound/call outs to make a decision.
I'll put it this way the core4 who were playing during the grand slam would probably have won it with any of the top 10 IGLs maybe even deeper. They were playing lights out, winning fights they shouldn't have. Everyone was taking turns clutching, turning rounds upside down, pulling a 3k out their asses off dry peeks. But take that same lineup with NO IGL they probably don't do as well, cuz there does need to be direction or purpose in movement and decision making.
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+1
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We can count good aimers, entry fraggers (yekindar, frozen, xantares, donk etc.) to replace NiKo but none of them will make the same impact for the team. Anyone who watches Niko’s playstyle carefully can realize that he does something different.
He doesnt rely on his aim. He doesnt even have very high hs percent. What makes him special is his positioning and gamesense.
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Niko is an extremely smart player. People don’t see it because they’re blinded by how hard he hits. Same is true of pretty much all the great players except dev1ce because people needed to explain how he doesn’t look like s1mple or Zywoo but still gets those numbers, so they realized he’s that smart.
I think frozen might have that potential, but there’s definitely a gap between Niko and any other rifler. Would just pick frozen and pray he clears the gap, I don’t really see any other big potential atm
donk owns that fraud
G2 without NiKo was already top 5 team in 2020 and made kato finals
Why would they fell off they can put jackz and still be top 5 team
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This is a completely different era of CS tho
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they never lost in Katowice against NAVI with NiKo, as a matter of fact they're 4-0
they lost Cologne yes, but that was when NAVI was starting their small era with an even stronger roster and G2 still had two bots
mind you that any of their losses vs NAVI don't compare with Kato 2020 mouth pissing, the game felt over in 10 rounds of the first map
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They won katowice with dropping only 1 map and NiKo wasnt even in MVP discussion
He was mid in whole tournament and below avg in grand finals
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He didnt win cologne single handedly lmao he was mvp but m0nesy and even hunter was right behind him
Also in last year's katowice it was hunter and m0nesy who carried g2 in playoffs to final
He was in MVP discussion till finals...just Hunter had great series in finals and he got the MVP
Yes you can be top5 team, there is not even 10 tier1 team in the world. The goal was winning events and they couldnt do it since 5 years ago or what?
They needed someone like Niko.
Well, now i checked your profile and it’s clear that you feel insecure because of Niko is the best player in the world lately. You talk bad about him whatever thread you are in. Zywoo will be #1 anyway. Just let Niko get the respect he deserves.
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+1 Why are Zywoo fans so deranged
You agree with me and call me insecure at the same time is funniest thing ever
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Which means you also agree with me on NiKo is the key of G2 winnings trophies after many years.
Seems like even insecure zywoo fans cant deny it, so thanks.
g2 without niko was top 1...
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hltv.org/stats/players/10994/stavn?start..
is bro trolling?
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gyazo.com/01ec8e65a11e3b25df4637a43abf30..
that's why they're always favourites and make deep runs right? because their star player only plays well at the start of the tourney
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hltv.org/news/36168/who-are-the-modern-d..
"stavn is also a concerning presence here, with a -0.11 drop off in the arena under a whopping sample size of 39 thirties (1166 rounds). It is simply over too many matches to not be a point of criticism, even if a 1.07 playoff rating is respectable in a vacuum."
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these stats are outdated brother, simple is past his prime, jks has had a poor couple of events, electronic defo isn't even in this conversation as of right now, b1t, jackz and elige are also still on that list. do I need to continue?
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The article is 5 months old, after the article heroic have been eliminated in 4 more play-offs. The stats are from Stockholm 2021 to Rio 2023, that's a period of 18 months. If you were to add the stats from last 5 months (which also included a player break) nothing changes for stavn.
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you make it sound so convincing "eliminated in 4 more play-offs". so you basically mean they didn't win those tournaments? there's only one team that can win at the time, you know that right? you could make the same case for navi, c9, faze, ence
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The only case being made here is that if you were to remake the graph with stats from Stockholm 2021 to Gamers8 2023, Stavn will still be the bottom of the graph.
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not really, because you're not considering what difference it would make for the other players on the graph. maybe the average went down. a bunch of players on that list dropped off as well. you can't say what you're claiming here without actually doing the numbers
stavn and cadian fighting for their lives while the rest of Heroic annihilates group stages and then goes to bed during playoffs, i know he’s had some fall-offs but come on, its hard to perform to the same level as a closer when all but 1 of your teammates turns their monitor off, cadian or stavn left in 1vX 60% of rounds
I'm going to throw a hot one and say they should get a new awper in that case. Make m0nesy into a rifler as he has already said he prefered rifling and buyout hades or regali.
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hades as shown he's not ready for tier 1, he's doing fine in tier 2 and has a good map in big tournaments every now and again but he defo won't have the same impact as monesy.
and as for regali, he's too young and has too much still to prove before he should be picked up by a big team. if he goes to a big team now it'd be like lucky on astralis
M0nesy is mid with rifle
He is high level AWP abuser
G2 was the same before niko lmao. They couldnt win anything with niko as well, until they got hooxi. Old g2 lineup also had washed up kennyS. A player like yekindar could even improve the team.
jks on star role💪🏿
He proved that he could be a good entry when he played for rain
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He didn’t play for Olof?
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No. He played for Kjaerbye
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No. He played for sunny
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NiKo isn’t joining a team with aleksib
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agreed
superteam with s1mple niko zywoo donk (he will learn english) and frozen
it is gg for the team pretty much. g2 put themselves in a hard position where changing anyone (besides hooxi) is a significant downgrade. with awper you can't really go higher than that, zywoo is slowly fading, s1mple is already kind of gone out of that conversation and anyone who isn't blind can see that he is far less skilled or completely out of form for the past 12 months. niko is absolutely irreplaceable, you can say that hunter or jks are. but even if you say that then stop looking at spinx's stats and watch his demo. there is no difference, you can even say spinx is worse. there isn't really any better anchors... monesy & jks heavily underperformed that's why they lost to vitality. they can close out 4v5 any game if everyone is at least in a normal form for the match
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zywoo ain't fading my friend. If you watched ENCE game he returned from the slump, he just had been in small slump at start of the season the G2 game brought him back alive 1.35 against ENCE
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They always say that shit every time ZywOo doesn't put 1.3 for like 2 months. He's conditioned everyone to an absolute God tier level, so everytime he doesn't meet those standards because of fatigue or being human or whatever, you have the simpletons midwits mouthbreathers saying he's washed or fading or something
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nice points but it's worth noting that both NiKo and huNter did lifting for two players during that Vitality game and still have insane ratings despite a blowout overtime
if huNter is at his normal level then they have no chance there
so it's about realizing who overperforms, who underperforms and what should they expect if everyone is playing at their normal level
Stg people say Zywoo and s1mple are gone if they underperform for any time at all
Zywoo never even stopped putting up numbers, Niko was just the best player in the world for a bit, and suddenly that makes Zywoo bad?
S1mple def going thru a rough patch but unless you count when there a war started in his country, this is really the first extended period he’s underperformed in his whole career, and its with a new roster, and new language to communicate in. That’s a huge change whether you acknowledge it or not and he could just as easily come back to form as he could fade out
m0nesy is *maybe* top 5 AWPers right now, but I would still take Zywoo, s1mple, dev1ce, and sh1ro over him for sure.
Niko probably irreplaceable—might be the best player in the world rn, and best rifler in history, but G2 players def have the potential to get results without that. Frozen would be an ok replacement.
Hunter and jks are somewhat replaceable too—tho maybe hard if we’re thinking only English-speaking players. But FaZe players exist, def not impossible to replace.
Hooxi is IGL so hard to evaluate, but possibly Snappi could provide similar leadership with a good firepower upgrade.
Anyway, point is, all these players except Niko can certainly be upgraded in one way or another. Maybe they won’t mesh as well as current G2, but insane to say that swapping any player would be a downgrade when upgrades are possible with 4/5 of them
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bro stop looking at their statwise performance, look at how s1mple misses many shots for an entire year. zywoo is clearly losing his sharpness too but not to simple's extent. faze players are dropping off too bro. you can also check rain's pov, man is clearly becoming washed. he had his last burst in 2022 and that's it. he is nowhere close his peak mechanically, he has slow movements by todays standards, same with broky, he moves too slow on the map. it is obvious that their will to play is decreasing each event and this isn't something they can easily fix.
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That means no more majors for zywoo, so noty. Let niko ruin another team, his fans will still cry about how great his rating is and how the rest of the team sucks.
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That's an old one bro ur not considered cool when you say that anymore get on with the times. Internet explorer having ass
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Everything i said was facts, like it or not.
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I'll try to explain it as much as possible.
Completely disappeared in Boston, im still mad GuardiaN couldnt win his major because of him. Left faze, faze got a major. Joins G2, still nothing, yes he had a good major run, but in the end still choked, so who cares. Dont say he doesnt have a good team, cuz if you put any of the goats, they wil 99% win a major.
Hes just the modern ScreaM, taps a few heads and the kids go crazy. Dont come up with consistency, I dont care if he plays 50 years, coldzera,olof, etc completed the game in 1-2 years. Consistency could help players who have already made history, like dupreeh, device, s1mple,etc. Niko looks like a kid next to them. And dont bring that excuse with the awp, cuz half of the legends are not awpers. Put zywoo rn in G2 and move niko to vitality, let zywoo rifle, g2 will be locked in top 3, vitality wouldnt even be top 5.
Straight facts and you know it, no matter how much u like mr niko.
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Ok some fair points, good conviction for elaborating, still disagree ab the modern Scream comparison, Niko has carried and other players choked at least as many times as he choked. Its not a matter of his team being good in general, but a matter of them actually living up to that. Took time for NaVi and Vitality to win their shit, G2 just didn’t hit the peaks at the right time
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I realize the way i said it sounds toxic, im not trying to say hes a bad player, but i just dont think he deserves to play with people like zywoo anymore. The faze lineup he used to have was just a dream team. Tell me a player who hasnt improved under karrigan, got kicked from faze, went to mouz to win a decent tournament, which was crazy at that time, given what he had to work with. Made ropz an absolute beast, only to bring him later to faze and faze went nuts. Everyone from faze hit their peak under him, while niko was cocky enough to get him kicked, became the igl, had a player like cold, who was actually playing a bait for him, goat contender playing a bait for the goat choker, bruh
Cold is known for having a big ego, niko has it twice, without the achievements.
Thanks for the conversation
sign donk
???
profit
FL1T would be the best option right now but he just signed a big boy contract I think
Honourable Mentions: KEi from 9INE who plays almost the exact same roles as NiKo and Electronic for having more than similar enough positions to work in the team right away as well as being one of the only riflers to ever come remotely close to NiKo's individual skill
EDIT: There is no use considering players that aren't already playing Inferno banana, Nuke Yard and Mirage Connector at a high level because NiKo in these spots is one of the main reasons why G2 can compete with the best teams in the world.
If NiKo leaves, Hunter and m0nesy goes with him
they just find a new kovacousin
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imagine niko zywoo device in the same team
double awp on ct side with zywoo device
xDDD
frozen
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faze literally controlled by NiKo paid 1M to cold and farmed bo1 blast tourneys didnt win anything else embrassed 32-2 by Astralis
sold NiKo
brought back karrigan
replaced olof with ropz and done more in 6 months than NiKo's entire career span in Faze
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Faze in 2021 without Ropz is trash lmao. Faze NiKo IGL with old player Olof and washed player Cold still win 1 banana cup. Karringan with same lineup win nothing. And because u are French and Zywoo fan so i will not discuss anymore
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He left FaZe due to community pressure and huNter was just a bonus for him in G2. He even said if the things worked out diffetently he might have never left FaZe. So I don't want to believe that NiKo now wants to stay close to huNter under any and all circumustances.
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sure he was a bonus back then, but I'm pretty sure that now they're both aware that they work fantastically in tandem and that staying together for at least a bit more should be a priority
but I also see a world where G2 falls off, NiKo gets a crazy offer from Vitality or any other superteam and just dips
G2 without NiKo = Liquid without EliGE
It's not the real thing anymore.
Buster
Vitality without ZywOo
Na'Vi without s1mple
Astralis without device
I mean what's your point and what's the problem with having a star player ? the players surrounding him in G2 are amazing one by one and probably better than the ones device and s1mple has in their team.
Another useless post by HLTV forum users
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