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Nico MVP @ Mad Catz Invitational
Denmark buggeh 
I'm puzzled as to how they haven't posted this yet.
2013-03-04 10:17
Puzzled as to why HLTV haven't posted an MVP award solely based on the Cadred user votes? It makes perfect sense to me.
2013-03-04 10:23
No. Perplexed as to why they're so slow.
2013-03-04 10:23
Oh, Cadred being slow? Still a useless thread then.
2013-03-04 10:25
Not Cadred you mong. HLTV.
2013-03-04 12:45
Mong? Obvious UK trololol. Cadred got any statistics to go along with their MVP nominations?
2013-03-04 13:41
United Kingdom wap 
Why would HLTV post it? Because the Cadred users voted? Give me a break, like Cadred would post anything if it was the other way around.
2013-03-04 20:03
Well, they posted the nominations a week back, so why wouldn't they, just as cadred, do their own vote for mvp?
2013-03-05 10:09
maybe because cadred just wrote a few sentences and provided no actual data. Ours look like this: and then this as a follow up
2013-03-04 13:00
The difference between HLTV's work and Cadred/Heaven Media is night and day. Keep up the good work guys
2013-03-04 13:43
im surprised heaven media even let you guys attend there lans because your behavior towards them is fucking appalling, infact i think it pretty embarrassing than an admin is posting on the forums to instigate a feud between two websites, it just shows how childish you really are. good bye
2013-03-04 16:34
+1 HLTV is joke
2013-03-04 16:37
fuck off back to your shit hole ono shitter
2013-03-04 20:45
youre surprised because you arent used to actually see good work right?:P
2013-03-04 20:47
Good work, ok lets put this as a fact but: "im surprised heaven media even let you guys attend there lans because your behavior towards them is fucking appalling, infact i think it pretty embarrassing than an admin is posting on the forums to instigate a feud between two websites, it just shows how childish you really are." Now go on dribbling.
2013-03-04 20:52
the only reason why are invited is because most of the audience is here. Don't believe there's any kind of generosity behind that.
2013-03-04 20:53
2013-03-04 23:34
clicked the link, read the article saw no stats or data, or even a link. Then i closed the page. I didnt go looking for things. If there is relevant information elsewhere it should of been linked.
2013-03-04 23:58
GoMeZ just pointed out the differences between's vote and Cadred's one and indirectly explained why that affected the time needed to post a news about it. No childish behavior here, it's all constructive.
2013-03-05 03:34
wouldn't be a very good business decision to not allow the website that is frequented by probably 80% of the active cs:go scene around the world to cover a tournament.
2013-03-05 17:08
so because you have 80% of "active csgo users" (which i doubt) that means HLTV staff can do what they want? abuse other websites and make them look bad? when to anyone with half a brain theyre the ones who look bad not going to reply if you reply to me again, because its pointless. (i surf about 10 gaming websites, i favor none of them)
2013-03-05 17:46
the other websites are the ones who make themselves look bad by producing terrible content. anyone is free to point it out.
2013-03-05 17:53
lurppis I used to dislike you but now im a fan. Love the honesty in your posts :D
2013-03-06 06:34
He didn't instigate anything, he merely provided facts. And he never said anything against Heaven Media, in fact how does HM even fall in this picture? Aren't HM and cadred independent cause that's what RL advertises!
2013-03-06 00:33
rofl someone is really butthurt seriously. cadred did a bad job thats it, u cant deny it.
2013-03-06 01:56
It's a public vote...
2013-03-04 16:35
"cadred just wrote a few sentences and provided no actual data" what is that then? grow up gomez.
2013-03-04 16:40
So it actually took you about 6 minutes to check if they indeed have any data :D GoMeZ has been full of shit lately but cadred has always been like that. Pure shit
2013-03-04 17:28
na it actually took me about 30 seconds (only because they posted it ages ago)
2013-03-04 17:36
"has always been like that" Be more specific you insane moron, or just taking the old cadred bandwagon? I do would believe it.
2013-03-04 20:50
:D nothing better than a french to hail for shitred :D
2013-03-04 23:02
Wanna see the statement from Gomez so bad, because what ono said is completely true basically. In the very end behaving like the rest of HLTV users. inb4 deletes both posts trololol
2013-03-04 20:45
check my comment above.
2013-03-04 23:59
I believe these stats are actually straight from eBot, no work behind this. Your point is?
2013-03-04 23:23
Germany jbk1g 
lol, u failed
2013-03-04 10:29
On what basis? He only gets the award because he is a saucer
2013-03-04 10:29
So if GTR would have won the MVP it would have been because he is a 1.6er?
2013-03-04 12:55
No but I have to agree with him on that, even though niko played amazingly the whole tournament he gets that award on cadred because of the source fan base. A few player deserved it more at this event. GG to him though, I remember him being part of the subtop 2 years ago and now being among the top 5 best danes. Good job :)
2013-03-04 13:03
I think both GeT_RiGhT and f0rest have won 2 MVP awards each, with friberg taking one and ScreaM taking another (from all major GO tournaments so far). I don't think the Source fanbase has much to do with it.
2013-03-04 16:34
if css fanbase wouldnt have anything to do with it f0rest would get all the mvp
2013-03-04 20:48
Spoken like the ambassador of 1.6 fanboys.
2013-03-04 23:41
Lol :D
2013-03-04 13:00
MVP = Most Valuable player the award should go to a player who is largely affecting the teams result. In my opinion NIP is a team of 5 players playing very well together and has the highest skill in the team. this does not necessairly mean that one of the NIP players should be most valuable. In my opinion Anexis wouldnt be top3 without Nico in this tournament and i also think that NIP would have won if they would have a 5th player on the level of for example friberg instead of get_right just because they play very good as a team. I think Nico deserve the award for this event just because he was the most valuable to his team. in my opinion this award should go to the player who is most valuable for any team and not the player who is 1 in statistics
2013-03-04 13:15
Yea its the same reason players like Shoxie, GuardiaN and aPEX should have been in the running for MVP. People think MVP means "best" player at the event. Whereas it means most integral to the team as a whole. Most impactful.
2013-03-04 13:50
I agree Nico was among the top candidates. But you shouldn't leave out apex, glaive and fe shox
2013-03-04 17:30
Nico stats : semi-final map 1 : 18 kills 14 deaths (28 rounds) sf map 2 : 13 kills 18 deaths (25 rounds) sf map 3 : 20 kills 16 deaths (29 rounds) final map 1 : 17 kills 21 deaths (29 rounds) final map 2 : 12 kills 16 deaths (21 rounds) DESERVE? REALLY?
2013-03-05 14:17
you dont know if the kills were impact kills so that is pointless to bring up his kills like it doesnt tell the full story..
2013-03-05 17:57
lol he has more death than kills.. so he suck balls
2013-03-05 20:42
He lost the match so that tends to happen
2013-03-06 00:54
not only in the final.. but throughout playoffs
2013-03-06 14:26
Sweden wmb 
Most Valuable Player is a term that should be avoided in FPS-games simply because of some teams dependency on their player. You can't vote the very same player the best due to statistics, there has to be logic. What significant impact did the player do for his team during the tournament? I mean, if I would say a classic MVP player, that would be Aguila. Since he does some serious impact in his team. GTR doesn't do as much impact in NiP as for instance Aguila does in ASES, therefore it should be pretty knowledgeable that Aguila would earn the MVP. This is an example of how gamers should define MVP. But sadly, the FPS-gamers have abused this term and used it as some form of "statistics". You can't base a players performance based on stats, you've to show the impact. For instance, if GTR took 3x 1on5s and made the match for his team. Then he should be awared for MVP that game. The player who does most impact and is most valuable in his team deserves it. So far, NiP shouldn't win the MVP 24/7 so giving it to niko would be more far as anexis proved themselves more in this tour then NiP did. Basically, this use of term in HLTV or other communities have missused it. When nix0n was awarded MVP; that was quite fair. He did do an impact for mTw, and if it weren't for him playing, mTw wouldn't play. Which means that he was infact the most valuable player at the moment.
2013-03-04 13:51
by that logic the MVP award should go to the best player of the worst team.
2013-03-04 15:11
Sweden wmb 
not neccesarly, it has to be the best player in a team that does impact. Unexpected impact or expected impact with a certain amount of domination. You can't base MVP solely on stats.
2013-03-04 19:32
"When nix0n was awarded MVP; that was quite fair" nuff said
2013-03-04 19:43
Sweden wmb 
mTw did very unexpected results with a spectator who never had any previous LAN-experience. well deserved and he did an impact his team :)
2013-03-04 19:56
except he wasn't even his team's 4th most valuable player, let alone the tournament's most valuable. other than that, yeah, he deserved it. p.s. he didn't even play in the playoffs, only in the group stage. pretty sure if mtw advanced with nix0n, they could have advanced with a random esl admin as well. edit: i'm sure get_right (in fact i know because i asked him) enjoys the fact he played his best event of the year in new york with his parents on-site to watch and then nix0n got the mvp (which came with a $1,000 cpu, benq monitor, etc as well) instead ^^
2013-03-04 20:08
Sweden wmb 
why do u try besserwisser me? Nix0n deserved it. GTR has won countless of MVPs do you think he cares if he wins pocket money in prize? The true hero of the day was Nix0n because he was not expecting to play and he did valueable effort in his team. Unlike you, GTR has no massive ego boost needing achievements as if he was to die for them. They didnt qualify thru an esl-admin so you cant talk about it. That event was a heroic move by Nix0n saving MTw (who went ALL the way from denmark to new york and failed less than expected.) So I mean are u going to continue trolling me about GTR because apparently we already know that he was the best player. Please add relevance to ur text Im pretty sure you would be voted mvp if you basically saved a team that went all the way to new york and managed to pass groupstage with a player with 0 experience. nixon was mvp based on the fact that he rescued a team from def loss incl playing better than as epx
2013-03-05 03:30
correction: nix0n was mvp based on the fact idiots like you get to vote for him as long as you have an esl account p.s.: "who went ALL the way from denmark to new york and failed less than expected." wmb dictionary = mvp - someone who fails less than expected
2013-03-05 03:49
Sweden wmb 
this idiot, wow. so ignorant, you can sit behind ur statistics and pretend you know jack shit about mvps. ive been given mvp many times in sports, basketball. and yes there are mvp awards. and i didnt score most points nor did i take most rebounds or anything. and i was mvp based on the fact that i turned a match completely with accurate passes and very unpredicted gameplay. please, if you continue argue when you never were given an mvp award in ur life for any of ur sporting achievements. then please be quiet.
2013-03-05 20:22
You should stop using internet. It's damaging you.
2013-03-05 21:09
in peewee sports that's often called the "fair play award" and it's given to retards like you so they wouldn't feel bad about sucking dick on a solid team.
2013-03-05 21:26
Sweden wmb 
you just went full retard lurppis. i was awarded the mvp and i won that tour. haha sucking dick? i shitted on the players, i scored 40 pts on two halfs. and it was unexpected that we won. "peewee sports" :D since when was basketball male peewee sports. hahaha go ahead go full retard once again. obvious how you just troll people. unprofessional to the fullest strikes again! and as once again: you never were any special person irl so u must sit and disrespect people who atleast did something in life. and the best part is that you talk about an award that you never were given in ur life :D haha
2013-03-05 21:42
basketball male is a peewee sport in the lower ages, just like any other sport. we never said basketball doesn't have mvps, only that soccer does not. maybe you got your "mvp" award for scoring 80 points wilt/kobe style then, but nico here did nothing of the like ^^ i suppose not everyone is as great as wmb! p.s. way to go from 1) soccer to basketball 2) accurate passes, not most points or rebounds to you scoring 40 EACH HALF so someone scored AT LEAST 81 points total while you scored 80? :D don't see 161 (at minimum) point scores everyday ;D
2013-03-05 21:46
Sweden wmb 
Nice joke retard. I played basketball mainly during my teen years and mainly soccer during my pre-teens years. I quitted playing soccer as I had my knee injury, and I started playing basketball again after injuring my knee during a match in Gothia Cup. I always played basketball thru out my years. My point with soccer was A) There're MVP awards in soccer and basketball B) You are an ignorant person C) I scored only 40 points in two halfs. I scored a total of 49 points that game. Now, stfu
2013-03-05 21:50
i couldn't care less what sports you want to lie to us about having played, but the fact is WE were only talking about soccer when you brought in basketball. 1) there are no mvp awards in soccer. feel free to prove me wrong, i'm all ears. 2) i do ~ok to be ignorant when it comes to people like you 3) so there were three HALVES in one full game? and someone scored more than 49 points? you got your "mvp" for your "accurate passes" and not for scoring 49 points?
2013-03-05 21:52
Sweden wmb 
So, I'm lying about I come from a family deeply devoted and actually have roots in professional sports teams in Sweden? :D For sure, then I must be a liar I guess. 3) There was probably one doing more score at a match that tournament. Best part is, that match were done in a groupstage match too. Not in an actual semi-final or something similiar. Now, please stfu. 2edit: since swedish language dont have quarters i guess i translated it wrong. we have the word halvlekar, thats whats used. two halfs is meant as 2 quarters with other meaning. mr_trollpis strikes again.
2013-03-05 22:01
considering you have never mentioned that before i don't know where i would have called you a liar about it. once again, feel free to name some soccer mvp awards with sources. so i guess you lied about 3) then, that's ok.
2013-03-05 21:59
Sweden wmb 
so i lie now, ok now the argument is even funnier. first only weak people gets injured. second is that you are envy, so lets continue. please, dont talk to me again, and also: I dont speak english as well as you do in terms of having a good vocabulary. i didnt live in the us for years plus i barely speak english irl/url, only on the internet. * edit 2: you are an idiot who think that you are the best. you are just a troll, please just get lost. * edit 3: I was given a scollarship from my highschool due to my sports commitments, so thanks to it, now im a full-time uni student. please stfu * edit 4: THere was loads of MVP awards in soccer being given to players. So, now im just tired of commenting you because you dont know the meaning of it. and yes i dare saying personal things because im proud of my commitments in life thanks
2013-03-05 22:08
Sweden wmb 
thanks, lurppis got served. soccer did have mvp. hahaha now, where is my cookie
2013-03-05 22:15
Sweden wmb 
Let me quote Lurppis: * Soccer did not have MVP (It did have) * Injuries are only happening to pussys or weak people (not to the 99.9% of those who plays sports actively) * Lurppis is only ignorant to people like me on internet. HAHAHAHAHA, HAHAHAHAHHAA, HAHAHAHAHAHHAHA Lurppis made my day today, btw also if u want to know? You can buy my brother on Football Manager 2009(?) I think its 2009 or 2008. And he turns out quite decent so if you want to buy him in the game, PM me and ill give you the namem, thanks And considering that I always am right vs you because I know what I say usually so yes, this time lurppis gets owned. MR _THERE IS NO MVP AWARDS FOR SOCCER AND INJURIES ONLY HAPPENS TO WEAK PEOPLE LIKE YOU_ please end life thanks
2013-03-05 22:19
i really enjoy you talking to yourself, although it's sad that it makes me think you just might really have schizophrenia. for the record, if you can't tell i was joking about injuries then something really must be wrong.
2013-03-05 22:33
Sweden wmb 
"i really enjoy you talking to yourself, although it's sad that it makes me think you just might really have schizophrenia. " So highlighting what you say in a post in a reply to myself is now schizofrenia, way to go lurppis. "for the record, if you can't tell i was joking about injuries then something really must be wrong." They first say that its something but then it turns out to be a joke. Then this joke must be a bad one since you said that you were ignorant against people like me. Just stop it while your making yourself into a bigger fool today. ** Now I will never ever consider you anything not even successful in gaming. A nobody IRL and nobody URL with attention disorder! Thanks
2013-03-05 22:43
Since I was the one who told lurppis there are no MVP awards in football, I'll reply to the MLS part. That's the ONLY league where the best player award is called MVP, and it comes from a country which doesn't even call the sport by its correct name. And the only reason it's called MVP in the US is because they are trying to emulate the format of all their other major leagues. The real awards in football are called differently.. Please show me when Messi was named the MVP of anything, surely as the best player in the world for years he would have racked up at least several?
2013-03-05 22:19
Sweden wmb 
Then you were also wrong, there's MVP awards in soccer just that it has different names in different countries. And I dont care if Spain doesnt have an MVP award or anything like that, I just know that there is usually domestic MVP in sports and that's the only thing I care about. You were wrong, lurppis were wrong. Also Allsvenskan has an MVP award so, why would I even go onto a discussion with gamers who know nothing about sports... Now, discuss about something you know of, gaming. How many MVP awards have lurppis ever been given? 0. Second award that is MVP based!
2013-03-05 22:26
That's EXACTLY what we are talking about, there is no "MVP" award in football, since they're called differently, that's the whole discussion. What the hell are you on about? Which one of us ever said in this thread that there are no awards for best players in football?
2013-03-05 22:27
Sweden wmb 
This is MVP too you were wrong please "Diego Forlan is the winner of the World Cup MVP. If it were not for Forlan Uruguay, he may have not even made the second round. I thought that someone from Spain or Holland would win. But Forlan was more important to Uruguay than any other player on any team. A true accomplishment for a great player and a great professional. Diego Forlan surprisingly won the Golden Ball for Tournament MVP." Now, we are argueing about the MVP. Please, you are also just talking shit. THERE IS MVP AND ITS CALLED MVP TOO, THEY SAY MVP TOO, AND MLS SAY MVP TOO SO NOW, WHY ARE U ARGUEING? hahahaha you are gaming player u dont know anything about gaming go cover gaming instead
2013-03-05 22:32
Haha, well you just showed how you don't know anything about football if you don't know how one of the biggest awards is called. That award is actually called Golden Ball, given to the best player of the World Cup. That website obviously just interpreted it as MVP, as that is what North Americans call such awards. The award is NOT called MVP, it's called Golden Ball. Get it?
2013-03-05 22:32
Sweden wmb 
"Haha, well you just showed how you don't know anything about football if you don't know how one of the biggest awards is called. That award is actually called Golden Ball, given to the best player of the World Cup. That website obviously just interpreted it as MVP, as that is what North Americans call such awards." Comedy as best. Go cover gaming instead please thanks! MadCatz Invitational MVP Awards awarded MVP they could call it the golden mouse _STILL GIVEN TO THE PLAYER WHO PERFORMED AND DID MOST IMPACT; FORLAN DIDNT EVEN WIN THE WORLD CUP AND HE WAS GIVEN MVP NOW THANKS_
2013-03-05 22:33
He wasn't given an MVP award though, he was given the Golden Ball trophy. We were talking about names all along, you shouldn't have entered this discussion without knowing what it is about. If you assumed we are saying there is no award for best performers, well that's on you, but we never said that. Read more carefully next time.
2013-03-05 22:36
Sweden wmb 
"He wasn't given an MVP award though, he was given the Golden Ball trophy. " Now, thanks. Just leave the discussion and tell lurppis he is wrong about injuries in sports and that he is ignorant. Thanks! And its based on votes, just like nicos were based on votes. Now thanks!
2013-03-05 22:41
So you decided to ignore the text under that sentence? Read more carefully dude, you're missing words and even entire sentences! Let's try this: WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE NAME OF THE AWARD Also, If you're unaware that lurppis was messing with you about injuries, well, again that's on you. And about the vote for Golden Ball, do you know who votes for it? Do you think they would let someone like you or me vote? No, it's voted by the media. Not like Nico by the fans.
2013-03-05 22:46
Sweden wmb 
Ok so messing about someone quitting something over injuries is a joke to you? Especially when the person says he is ignorant to people like me and says injuries happens to only weak people like me? Thanks now I know this. This is not nowhere anywhere not even close to professionalism. This is why gamers will never receive fullest respect because of outspeaks like this in general (in their normal days) Lurppis has to formulate himself professionally since he claims himself to be a professional. He doesn't act like someone who is. When I played basketball there was a statement in the contract saying that i cant speak out on the contract i signed and that i cant reveal details that is considered internal, and that the club was actually promoting fair play and good manner.. " And about the vote for Golden Ball, do you know who votes for it? Do you think they would let someone like you or me vote?" They let the journalists vote, but gaming has no real journalism. So why not let the regular public vote when the voice is not being clear enough?? Journalists are people who've taken a degree within Journalism. Not someone who sits at home playing games writing about games. There is no journalism in E-sport. EOD. People just say they are journalists but infact they are just writers wannabe journalists. You cant do votes like the world cup player award, because there are barely any users who have taken any degree in journalism :D Also e-sport to me, is a big joke because its just kids like lurppis talking big over the monitor when they are nobodys irl.
2013-03-05 22:55
i have never said i'm a professional. i work for part time. i make money out of it, but not a living; therefore i'm no professional. i also do not have a contract with "journalist" isn't a protected title like laweyer or doctor. anyone can be a "journalist". all that matters is what site/paper you write for, and happens to be the biggest one in cs.
2013-03-05 22:57
Sweden wmb 
It is a protected title, please do your homework. You can call yourself journalist as much as you want, you can lie for all you want but the real people who are journalists are the ones who have taken a degree in the subject Journalism. Otherwise, you are called a writer, and everyone can call himself a writer/author. Editor can everyone call themselves, calling themselves e-sport journalists is wrong. So, thanks please as I said, dont talk to me.
2013-03-05 22:59
according to mr. gonzo (who actually apparently has gotten a degree in journalism) it is not a protected title. i don't care one way or another but i've heard other people say that as well. i don't call myself a journalist. sorry to disappoint you once again. at most i've ever said i'm a writer for, but mostly i just say i "work" for without specifying what i do.
2013-03-05 23:00
Sweden wmb 
it is a title claimed by people who took a degree in journalism you can claim that you are a journalist if you have taken a degreei in it. If gonzo got a degree in journalism then he can call himself a journalist freely without anyone argueing with him whatever about it. read this article she protects the title of journalism
2013-03-05 23:03
she attempts to protect it, but it's not protected by law. i can't call myself an attorney or a doctor, but i could call myself a journalist if i wanted to, and it wouldn't be illegal.
2013-03-05 23:10
Sweden wmb 
you and i have a different perspective on protected. just because something by law isnt protected doesnt neccesarly mean that you shouldnt respect the title and understand the work that people put thru to call themselves journalists. please, do not further attempt to discuss this subject with me. you are just another pale fool trolling on internet, call yourself writer / author I dont give a shit. dont discuss mvp or anything related to anything just because its ur competitor doing it. if u should discuss mvp, base the discussion on something proxy. not because its, they did votes just like other mvp awards. difference is that they let me and you vote as much as we'd like to. since e-sport once again dont have 100000 different newssites/magazines etc, it would be hard to do something like that. and you cant ask the players because there're also players with personal opinions about other players in this scene. so i dont see why the general user couldnt vote since there is a lack of serious newssites in e-sports. Not cadred is serious, nor is HLTV in compairsation to the sports magazines.
2013-03-05 23:19
i'm white so by definition i'm pale in comparison to you, but i had a nice tan going on last summer so i wouldn't go as far as to calling me pale. you should consider "idiot" a protected title from now on because i'm now protecting it so that only people like you get called by the name XD rest of your points are not worth discussing any further.
2013-03-05 23:22
Sweden wmb 
hahahaha please dont even start, you lost the discussion. cadred based mvp on votes and u are mad because they didnt have stats behind it and that they let everyone vote. to me, it shouldnt be a problem for you, they were a part covering the event mainly as they are in cooperation with the brand that organized the event. i think the cadred vs hltv is ridicolous, we dont see sport magazines openly claim others as shit. they do chronicles if they find something extraordinary or do a personal column about it. "i'm white so by definition i'm pale in comparison to you, but i had a nice tan going on last summer so i wouldn't go as far as to calling me pale." nice, go on with the racecard because i stated that you are pale since i'm coloured. :D hahaha i just enjoy this, not just a moron, but a racist moron. "you should consider "idiot" a protected title from now on because i'm now protecting it so that only people like you get called by the name XD" If you protect it by calling me an idiot, that means you graduated in being an idiot in order to call me that in this case. By that, everyone could call themselves journalists but they have to take a degree to really be one. I guess, you made my day again lurppis. You graduated in to becoming an idiot, which year did u graduate and what school did u attend? :DD
2013-03-05 23:26
You expect someone to treat you with respect after all the shit you've written on this site? Sorry, you get no respect, and I don't mind at all lurppis making fun of your injuries. If you'd tell us you have a personality disorder (which I would find quite believable) then I would mind and I would also not enter into any more discussions with you. About journalists, MIRAA has a degree in journalism, Gonzo has one too I believe. There are probably others as well. But again you digress, no one said we need a vote like the Golden Ball with journalists deciding (not that that's perfect, the Forlan award was picked apart and complained about). But letting the public make such a call is by all means ridiculous, if you'd want the award to carry any weight that is. If you don't, then it's fine.
2013-03-05 23:02
Sweden wmb 
I'm argueing with people like you and lurppis. Totally hilarious how you ALL OF A SUDDEN claim that its not a joke and that its something aimed towards me personally. :D Thanks Tgwri1s You just proved that I win. Thanks! I win. And also, if only two people in e-sports are journalists then whats the point. Should we let only a group of 5 people claim whos the best player? "But again you digress, no one said we need a vote like the Golden Ball with journalists deciding (not that that's perfect, the Forlan award was picked apart and complained about)." It was you claiming that award is based by people who've an insight, by that it's journalists who casts the vote in the Ballon d'Or, not regular people or players. But e-sports BARELY have them. If only 3 people can claim themselves as journalists, then what's the case of discussing this. And also you wish that I had some sort of mental problem because you are just another person who don't look up facts before stating. Now I must just do a personal reference to who I'am. I'm a university student reading Bachelof of Science Computer Science, software development. I'm a undergrad student at a key regional University in Sweden. Thanks!
2013-03-05 23:11
A joke that pokes you, you know, as in somebody joking at your expense? That's what makes it a joke. You stated somewhere above that your English isn't that good, I guess this is why you're having trouble getting that (not joking here, that's why I'm explaining). But in that case you shouldn't enter these discussions if you're constantly misunderstanding things. Again, I just pointed out that the Golden Ball award is given by journalists, not by fans. If it was the fans, it would be ridiculous. But let's walk into that alley for a sec and let me hear you explain what is it that they teach in journalism school about judging a player's performance on a football pitch and at the same time on a Counter Strike server? Cause if all it takes is to have a degree in journalism to be able to vote perfectly for the best player of any sport and esport, that's pretty awesome! What I think is that they let those media representatives vote because they have vast experience with that exact sport and have a certain degree of expertise and seriousness. Doesn't that make more sense? I never said e-Sports MVP awards should be voted like the Golden Ball, only by journalists. That's why when I made these votes I included fans, but also players who played in the tournament and "journalists" from various websites. Even so, an award given out ONLY by "journalist" (the esport ones + the few real ones) would STILL be much more relevant than one given by fan votes. Even though it would still be far from perfect.
2013-03-05 23:26
Sweden wmb 
It's not nowhere any joke or anything that should poke you. That was a pure attempt to mock me and make fun of the fact that I got injured. "A joke that pokes you, you know, as in somebody joking at your expense? That's what makes it a joke. You stated somewhere above that your English isn't that good, I guess this is why you're having trouble getting that (not joking here, that's why I'm explaining)." My english is perfectly good to know exactly what a person means when he says that a weak person gets injured only when he states that himself is ignorant vs a person like me. It's not a joke. If you would consider something like that a joke i would suggest you going to a psychiatrist because it's nothing that a person jokes on. "Even so, an award given out ONLY by "journalist" (the esport ones + the few real ones) would STILL be much more relevant than one given by fan votes. Even though it would still be far from perfect." The ballon d'Or is based on team coaches and journalists. They are a better opinion than player because the player can involve personal feelings based on personal expereinces. The best way of giving out MVP is basically by asking objective people. But since e-sports lacks objective thoughts since people flame others personally like you did above in regards of "personality disorder" bullshit. See here, i dont give a shit about you or lurppis or anyone on this site basically when it comes to opinions. I only give a shit about fact and whats relevant. Cadred based this MVP on votes from all, meaning that its based on who's most favoured in that tournament. Players were nominated and the favourites was also nominated, I dont see whats wrong with it. If people wanted GTR to be MVP, then people could vote that for all that matters.
2013-03-05 23:37
It is a joke, it makes fun of you. Joking at someone's expense or mocking. It's not nice, far from it. But he doesn't actually believe that only weak people get injured (that should be obvious, which is why it's a joke). He was just calling you weak by that, you know, since he doesn't respect you... He does that a lot if you haven't noticed. Send us all to a psychiatrist for all I care or call it bad humor, but drop it already. But anyways, to conclude, it's actually not necessary to have a journalist degree, but it's necessary to be objective in order to vote for the best player award? Or is it both? So journalists who someone would determine are not objective wouldn't be allowed to vote for Ballon d'Or (apparently we switched from Golden Ball, but okay)? And you are objective enough to determine that NO ONE in esports is objective to vote for that? Again as I stated before, the Cadred award is fine when you know how it is given. But I can't agree with Nico being the MVP of this tournament, so that's why I'm arguing against that with people who are trying to make the award mean more than it is - just a fan vote. The first time I made an MVP vote on, it was also based only on fan votes, but I never claimed it to be an MVP award with any seriousness nor did I announce it, and after a few times times I realized how ridiculous it was exactly for the reason that fans are far from objective.
2013-03-06 00:00
Sweden wmb 
Joking must be different in Serbia then? I've never personally encountered this newcome phenomena that people accept jokes that are hurtful. It's very insensitive to joke about such things that hurted you personally. We're discussing about awards, it doesnt matter which award it is or whatever you are being given. If you are being awarded then there must be some sort of convince in you that this player really deserves this. To respond you in regards of the fact that I'm objective enough to award someone in e-sport for it, then yes I'm. I've been voting players who have disgusted me personally by their actions and act. "But I can't agree with Nico being the MVP of this tournament, so that's why I'm arguing against that with people who are trying to make the award mean more than it is - just a fan vote." " The first time I made an MVP vote on, it was also based only on fan votes, but I never claimed it to be an MVP award with any seriousness nor did I announce it, and after a few times times I realized how ridiculous it was exactly for the reason that fans are far from objective." If would organize an event along with a brand that owns HLTV, then it's techincally a vote provided by the brand who owns the event thru the - Technically an official vote approved by the event holders. But to break it down, it would be considered as a fan poll basically. But not since it's announced and organized by event holders! It's more than a fan vote because people like me and you could vote in this but didn't since it wasn't being brought forward to us here within this community. So with other words, it's based on all peoples opinions with interest in this tournament. Not just fans, but also people with relevance and interest in this e-sport event. Thanks! I'm done here. P.S: Haters gonna hate, I don't give a shit about your opinion about me. I'm already succesful thanks.
2013-03-06 00:15
You do know that Cadred has these kind of votes for every event, it has nothing to do with this being an event organized by Heaven Media? So I don't see why you're mentioning organizing an event. And it's not more than a fan vote because even though people who can be objective can and probably do vote, the majority is still fanboys and people without any kind of expertise on the matter (or simply people who watched 1-2 games, who even if they're experts on CS cannot make the objective call). So the votes of those whose opinions would be objective and relevant get buried down as they are a huge minority. (You should know this Mr. regional University) So, no, no matter how you spin it, a public vote cannot be taken seriously. And to respond to you claiming that you are objective... well, there's no need to respond to that, I'm sure you and anyone reading this can guess what I think about that. xD
2013-03-06 00:26
Sweden wmb 
I'm objective when related to things that has a seriousness behind it with relevance. In regards of "schneider" the seriousity of a person purchasing cheats, this is utterly weird for you to proclaim and denounce that it has no relevance or that its not important. "Mr Regional University", well atleast im not sitting at home writing useless news about useless players doing useless things, acting a wannabe journalist when ur just 0 :D unexpected that i discuss this with a serb whos 26 years old and have not achieved anything :D
2013-03-06 00:51
Oh really, now you know my life and my education as well? Ok, Mr. Oracle. :) With prejudice like that you simply prove how far from objective you are. So go figure. And what does schneider have to do with any of this? You keep bringing new subjects to the discussion...
2013-03-06 00:58
Sweden wmb 
im pretty sure that ur noone special and that noone would consider u that in real life. sorry but i know this for a fact, you are just another 26 year old male on internet who spends their day thinking that you one day can become something on internet. sad thing is not. education in serbia? haha ok this is entertainment, i will not continue further in this discussion. you sir are a one looney 26 year old, i think that u need to grow up and find another hobby. thanks!
2013-03-06 01:00
There you go, thank you for finally conceding and bringing out the full idiocy that I had no doubt would finally come to light at some point. I knew you had it in you, good job! Case closed.
2013-03-06 01:03
Sweden wmb 
full idiocy claiming that you infact are a nobody and that there is no competition in compairsation of education on university level between sweden and serbia? haha i wonder if the gamers live in the real world as me or if they live in narnia. please go on and think that ur someone relevant in some way also, u take this personal which means that i win. ur 26 and i must wonder how it feels to sit here on this forum and discuss with me if you were someone :D +100 to me now thx.
2013-03-06 01:07
at the end of the day MVP should always go to the player that won the tournament the most essential player in the winning team.
2013-03-04 14:01
Nope, Anexis wouldnt be top5 without Nico and NIP would still win without get right
2013-03-04 14:06
NiP without GTR would easily lose to VG, get_right is their best player and main carry
2013-03-04 15:32
he is their homocarry
2013-03-04 16:17
they would still smash vg if berg replaced get_right
2013-03-04 16:25
vg fan boy? :D
2013-03-04 17:51
no, just sayin truth, GTR is so awesome player, having him in team = success, less or more but success, he's so important for his team, without him = big moral lose
2013-03-04 17:53
1.6 he wasn't the word success i would say f0rest = success
2013-03-05 14:24
I think u shud b worried about nip losin 2, navi, ESC, LDLC b4 VG
2013-03-04 23:38
f0rest has been GTR main carry. Even though everyone in that team is important they would win anyways without GTR.
2013-03-05 14:23
exactly, the most important player in the winning team is obviously more valuable than the most important player on the team who placed second. winning > placing second.
2013-03-04 20:11
If the winning team are so good they could win without their most valuable player does he continue to be the most valuable player of the tournament? It's such a misunderstood term, especially in e-sports. People generally think best player = most valuable but it's simply not the case. I think someone who carries his average team to an excellent finish is generally more valuable than someone who out-performs the rest of his excellent teammates on the way to an event win. It's so subjective though. Guess it can go either way.
2013-03-04 20:10
I think the subjective part is what is the line to consider something an "excellent finish". I can't see a player who just helped his team out of group stage and no further as someone who did something spectacular. Especially considering that it often depends on the seeds, bracket etc, reaching the 1/4 final often isn't an unimaginable task. So in my book the line is getting his team into top3. Tomi's line is the very top. We agree to disagree :) Regarding Nico at this event, imo he wasn't THAT valuable to his team, they actually all pulled their weight. Even though he was their best player, he didn't really outperform the rest of his team by that much to be the event's MVP.
2013-03-04 20:56
i'm too lazy to respond, refer to today's [pod]cast if you care enough
2013-03-04 22:42
I tuned in, had some decent points but I still think without Nico Anexis wouldn't have placed on the podium, which makes him hella valuable :D
2013-03-04 22:51
allow me to quote #49 "semi-final map 1 : 18 kills 14 deaths (28 rounds) sf map 2 : 13 kills 18 deaths (25 rounds) sf map 3 : 20 kills 16 deaths (29 rounds) final map 1 : 17 kills 21 deaths (29 rounds) final map 2 : 12 kills 16 deaths (21 rounds)" hella valuable? more like the group stage hero
2013-03-04 22:58
lurpp mad as always :DDD but you are right
2013-03-04 23:42
Sweden wmb 
u never played sports lurppis true fact, in soccer mvp was awarded for the player who made most significant impact for his team in matches that was deciding. as rickeh said, it is missleading term in esport, kids abusing it and it has been abused. dont do same mistake again and abuse this. Nico was valueable because he made significant clutches. frags arent all in all@mvp, its also about the players performance. lets say nico took an important 1on3 that was moneydeciding, this is for instance an round u look it, rather than a simple fragout round. this is why cadred voted nico, and this is accurate. so please stop argueing and u never played sports once again obvious
2013-03-05 03:36
actually i have played sports throughout my entire life and still do on a weekly basis, but thanks for the analysis anyways. nico's significant plays were all recorded in the group stage. i watched his team's semi-final and grand final and he did nothing noticeable in any of them. no "moneydeciding" 1v3 rounds i'm afraid. according to my sources who follow the worse version of football actively, soccer has no mvp awards (only player of the year -type awards, usually given out to people who score the most goals) so you actually fail twice. idiot.
2013-03-05 03:47
Soccer has Man Of The Match awards every game. Your source is wrong. In the EPL, players get given a small trophy and a prize for each MotM award. Same can be said for Rugby and other sports.
2013-03-05 03:56
Anexis' playoff matches: inferno vs NiP: - GTR 29/9 - Nico 12/16 nuke vs NiP: - f0rest 27/17 - Nico 17/21 dust2 vs VG: - MSL 27/20 - gla1ve 23/21 (while calling) - Nico 20/16 nuke vs VG: - SmithZz 26/17 - kennyS 24/13 - Nico 13/18 inferno vs VG: - Pimp 24/15 - ScreaM 22/18 - Nico 18/14 just how many man of the match awards do you give to nico out of those matches? don't worry i watched all of them and he did nothing that sticks out in my head as anything out of the ordinary. you should also realize that as an awper he likely gets inflated stats due to the way anexis plays. Nico @ playoffs: 80/85, 0.606 FPR, KD: -5, 132 rounds Nico @ group stage: 69/39, 0.907 FPR, KD: +30, 76 rounds ^ the exact opposite of what a real mvp does. edit: btw no disrespect to nico, but he has to suffer as a casualty due to people trying to argue for a stupid cause.
2013-03-05 04:19
Nico @ playoffs: 113/116, 0.604 FPR, KD: -3, 187 rounds correct stats, forgot tcm-gaming matches at first but yeah, it didn't get any prettier (15/16 and 18/15 scores)
2013-03-05 04:25
Stats have always been part of a story. They don't always tell the complete story.
2013-03-05 04:27
please elaborate, considering i watched all of those games and he looked just as average as the stats suggest. how many imaginary gumpster motm awards is that?
2013-03-05 04:30
Whether he opened up bombsites, got important frags, opened up an area of the map, whether he defended for his team, or even saved his team mates from getting killed. That's where the rest of the story should be brought in, placed into context of the game, game by game, map by map. I have no arguments here. I am just saying stats tell one side of a story.
2013-03-05 04:37
he's an awper so he didn't open up bombsites, he sat far back while his teammates tried to do that and failed versus nip, leading to him getting some cheap kills. here's some context: he wasn't even a top5 player in the playoffs of mad catz, coming from someone who saw practically all matches in the playoffs.
2013-03-05 04:40
If you think awpers dont open up bombsites just watch rattlesnk, mOE..
2013-03-05 18:00
Stats obviously don't mean everything when it comes to cs. people disagree with you on how well Nico performed, What's the big deal about that?
2013-03-05 04:45
i'd love to hear why they disagree with me, they obviously must have some reasons other than "it's not the stats"
2013-03-05 04:55
You will have to ask somebody who voted for him I guess. I personally thought fifflaren deserved it purely because of the match against ESC on inferno, I thought for sure ESC had won going into the second half, but Fifflaren just kept killing the quad and arch players.
2013-03-05 05:09
I actually voted for Nico on Cadred. My reasoning was I saw a lot of his clutch/entry frags on the stream, which in my eyes he left the impression that he excelled the most. I watched the stream with not many attention and he's the guy I heard of most, which is why I placed my vote to him.
2013-03-05 20:38
that's a fair reasoning and it sounds understandable, congrats for one of the first posts in this entire thread that makes sense. i think i can still easily argue (with proof from demos if i had the time/interest to look it up/make clips of it) that overall he isn't that player and your opinion was likely affected by the actions that you saw and didn't see (of both nico and his competitors), but at least that's a fair opinion.
2013-03-05 21:28
Sweden wmb 
just shut up, you know nothing about mvp award. show me ur trophies of being given mvp? you never were given mvp in anything, not even in cs i guess haha the best part is that you say you play sports every week, then i must ask you mr_nerd, what sport do u play? cant imagine the most pale person ive seen on a picture doing some sort of sport :D
2013-03-05 21:44
i have no history of lying or no reason to lie about it so take it as you wish, i've never talked about my personal life on the internet and i'm not about to start now
2013-03-05 21:50
Sweden wmb 
Look at yourself, you are a mess. You are not good in anything but flaming people on the internet about things you never been. Can you just quit talking bullshit, you're just some guy from Finland playing games everyday and who actually somehow managed to get famous in it. Your story is a loser one, not a good one. And about your personal life, why would anyone care about it? I just referred to me, who was actually very active in sports until I had my injury and forcing me to quit from basketball completely. And I quitted soccer due to injuries too. The ones who knows how it feels to get injured knows that the motivation falls when you go thru it. So please stfu
2013-03-05 21:53
i guess i'm just not a weak person like you so i don't get injured. p.s. i have played less than 100 hours of video games in the last 1 year, and +80% of that before aec. hardly every day.
2013-03-05 21:54
Sweden wmb 
yeah only weak persons gets injured in sports. HAHAHAHAHAHA this is hilarious; lurppis strikes again! Entertainment there is
2013-03-05 21:57
I was the "source" and no, Man of the Match awards are not the same as MVP awards for an entire tournament. Totally different scale. Player of the Year in EPL is comparable, and even that has different iterations - from fans, from players - so not really any more serious than what is done in e-Sports. And that was only in reply to what wmb was saying about e-Sports abusing the MVP award. And besides, I just said there is no MVP (exact name) award in football, and that the ones there are fall back to the same principles.
2013-03-05 04:17
Debatable, just because the length of a tournament compared to a football season, and even then there are different awards (for example BBC Sports Personality of the Year, Team of The Year etc etc). Even then it is still debated between fans and pundits. I don't see the issue with Nico being given the award. He won a "vote", people voted, just because it used to be a "source based" website has nothing to do with how people vote. In CS:S there were many debates when people didn't agree with who got the award.
2013-03-05 04:35
I don't think it's debatable, the length is exactly what matters here. You can sit through one game and easily decide who is the Man of the Match, but it's pretty much impossible to sit through every single match of the season, or even only matches of players that would be nominated for the award, and then make a decision with every single performance appreciated in full. So for that reason MVP of a tournament is comparable to a season-award in football. And the different awards are exactly my point here, if Nico was named fans' player of the event, or most surprising performance, or even Best AWP, it would make more sense. But MVP should be THE standout player of the event, not the most skilled one, or the one who played above expectations, or the one with the best highlight rounds, or the one whose team surprised the most, but the one whose amazing consistent performances helped his team reach something significant. So in this case, saying Nico is the MVP just isn't based on any such facts. And I know that in actuality it's just based on user votes, nothing against Cadred here, just debating people who are defending the choice of him being the actual MVP. And it definitely has nothing to do with who is a former CS:S player, I think we're all by now used to considering everyone simply CS:GO players. Bottom line, Nico's best performances came in the group stage, while in the playoffs he was just a part of a machinery that played well as a team, with different players standing out at different points, so I can't see him being the MVP in any way. Maybe MVP of his team, but even that is debatable, but definitely not of the entire tournament. And same as lurppis said above, no disrespect to Nico, I actually consider him one of the best AWPs in the game atm and I love his style, it sucks that this debate is belittling his play in a way.
2013-03-05 05:12
^ exactly what tgwri1s said here, if it was called the "fan appreciation award (as we talked about in [pod]cast episode #2)" or something no one would care, but mvp is just misleading. i also think nico played well overall at mad catz and is a solid awper with a reasonably high skill cap.
2013-03-05 05:21
i watch [pod]cast, and lurppis is right for sure! he tell also for karrigan when he was MVP at eswc i think, fan>MVP!
2013-03-05 12:29
"I think we're all by now used to considering everyone simply CS:GO players." Say that to 95% of your community, doesn't look like that.
2013-03-05 21:57
LOL so you"re the "source" you should of prob kept that to yourself
2013-03-05 10:50
LOL why? As I said, there is no MVP award in football, by that name, nothing secret there.
2013-03-05 14:05
Because it's ridiculous. There's no such award with that exact name but the ones there are, are pretty much the same thing.
2013-03-06 02:54
Who ever said there aren't awards in football? I don't know why other people even got involved with that, the whole thing about "soccer mvp" was brought up by wmb (in #76) who before that claimed things like "nix0n's mvp award was fair" and how he "played sports throughout his life" and knows things. That's why we stuck with the exact name discussion since he likes to throw things around without making half a sense and he goes on calling awards in football "soccer mvp". He even went on to convince me later how Golden Ball was actually called MVP. The Man of the Match awards that were brought up by Gumpster, who got involved also not understanding that it's about the name, turned into a different alley and I explained why that's not comparable to tournament MVPs. If you're gonna comment like this get involved with the whole discussion, not just a part of it.
2013-03-06 06:21
a pom callin football soccer? what year is this?
2013-03-05 04:19
in context of his post.... ;)
2013-03-05 04:26
Sweden wmb 
"according to my sources who follow the worse version of football actively, soccer has no mvp awards (only player of the year -type awards, usually given out to people who score the most goals) so you actually fail twice." you are an idiot, idiot. there're more awards than 1 known, you are such an ignorant person sometimes. there is mvp in soccer just shut it
2013-03-05 20:19
you can of course then point me some information on a "most valuable player" award in soccer? looking forward to your sources (e.g. links to websites proving it)
2013-03-05 21:25 And I'm pretty sure after every world cup there is a golden ball award which is a "best player" award.
2013-03-06 00:22 Forlan 2010 golden ball winner
2013-03-06 00:37
Is cadred danish site?
2013-03-04 16:19
2013-03-04 16:27
i can only tell you that nico wouldnt even place top 5 as mvp of mad catz
2013-03-04 16:45
not smash but they would win 16-14 or even lose to VG reply to your #22 :D
2013-03-04 17:24
It's an award given out by Cadred through a user vote on the website, don't see why HLTV would post it :D
2013-03-04 16:34
f0rest mvp
2013-03-04 19:50
Source vote = sourcer won who cares? Gtr was the best player in the best team= mvp. If u use the logic by the sourcers above shouldnt one of the CRG guys get the mvp? They are dogshit(0% thought they would get through 1st group stage so just gettin to 2nd group stage was amazing, surprising,above expectations??...thus having the biggest impact and mosy valuable?? Nico was good dont get me wrong but if he is to be mvp of the entire event he should have won the final for anexis...but he didnt...oh and who did? Gtr...
2013-03-04 20:40
Oh and nicos stats for important games: semi-final map 1 : 18 kills 14 deaths (28 rounds) sf map 2 : 13 kills 18 deaths (25 rounds) sf map 3 : 20 kills 16 deaths (29 rounds) final map 1 : 17 kills 21 deaths (29 rounds) final map 2 : 12 kills 16 deaths (21 rounds) MVP LOL
2013-03-04 20:47
stats is not everything, if you followed the tournament you could see what a huge impact Nico had towards getting Anexis to the final.
2013-03-04 22:45
He had 2 good matches in a tournament and you name him MVP? No, my friend, to be named MVP your need to be constant during the tournament. And in those 2 matches at least 2 other teammates were over the average rating, so we can not say that he carried his team alone. Morever, in the knock-out phase his average rating was under 1.00 so he did not help his team reach the final but only get through the group-phase.
2013-03-04 23:18
"He had 2 good matches in a tournament" Are you basing that on stats? If yes, then I suggest you go try the game.
2013-03-05 03:49
Nico had almost no impact at all, if some1 should be named mvp from anexis should be gla1ve.
2013-03-05 17:25
Nico deserved it.
2013-03-04 20:53
Why exactly would they post it here? Have's users voted?
2013-03-04 20:55
well anexis run was indeed amazing
2013-03-04 21:05
GeT_RiGhT MVP imo.
2013-03-04 21:07
Peru dbie 
lol'd I find amazing how that crappy website keeps existing, must be because of people posting their crap in HLTV.
2013-03-05 03:45
U need to let it go broo you was banned cos ur a retard now stop bashing cadred every chance you get you fucking sad kid
2013-03-05 04:18
Peru dbie 
cadred is terribly biased and completely crap compared to HLTV.
2013-03-05 04:26
Hltv is completely crap when it's plagued by fat, stupid pig's like yourself
2013-03-05 04:30
But that's not why you came here bro stop lying to urself thinking we don't remember what a retard you was befor the admins perm banned you from cadred Pz
2013-03-05 07:28
but still cadred is a shithole
2013-03-05 14:21
lurppis mvp of for sure
2013-03-05 04:24
Fifflaren was by far the mvp for NIP, they would have lost to ESC if it wasn't for his great entry frags.
2013-03-05 04:28
i want u to never come back here or go back to cadead..NO runner up should win mvp its simple plus anexis had a fuckin ez tourney compare to everyone else they faced a VG that they understand well the playing VG was dead tired they played way more and had way more grueling matches.
2013-03-05 15:57
Did you even read what I put? can you even read or write in general? Strong retard.
2013-03-05 17:13
Nico mvp? Must be a joke lol
2013-03-05 14:26
Nico should feel like mvp already, by comparing him to gtr -,-
2013-03-05 15:14
so many idiots... my brain it hurtes. i dont think any of those tossers really think nico deserves mvp.dotheynotheycannotdofeel. noone can be that delusional or just plain dumdum. almost forgot the main insultes: saucers !!!
2013-03-05 16:30
Why do people care so much?
2013-03-05 19:02
Cause their lifes are miserable.
2013-03-05 23:21
cadreds thread is so much more normal lol
2013-03-06 02:47
2013-03-06 03:08
lol, what did you expect? a bunch of guys who know nothing about CS decides who's gonna be the MVP...
2013-03-06 02:55
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