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the key point about this pixelwalking
Sweden dellx 
First let me say that fnatic should have contacted DH/Valve/whoever to report this because it's clearly giving a tremendous advantage and it just makes the game stupid Many of you continue saying that what olofm/krimz did was pixel walking, and let me explain why it's not That screenshot circling around (pbs.twimg.com/media/B3jW0PMCUAEJ5yj.jpg:..) means absolutely nothing. This screenshot only illustrates the internal architecture of the wall, which the players obviously have no knowledge of. When you're playing a map and you see a ledge, you assume that it is a ledge. You don't go into a map editor to confirm that it is indeed a ledge. Pixel walking is standing or walking on something which clearly SHOULDN'T BE STOOD OR WALKED ON IN OUR PHYSICAL WORLD (i.e a vertical wall) What's important is that what krimz stood on LOOKS LIKE A LEDGE. Had krimz stood on something which had the appearance of a vertical wall, then this would indeed be pixel walking Essentially if you're saying that this is exploiting via pixel walking, you're saying that players shouldn't treat objects in the game as what they appear to be. The true issue is that Valve didn't put the correct texture on that wall. They should have put the texture of a vertical wall and not a ledge, since that's obviously what their architecture of the wall implies. Examples of pixel walking: i.imgur.com/FW1DdII.jpg pbs.twimg.com/media/B3jk_6lCAAAANLS.jpg:.. (notice these players are standing on an object which OBVIOUSLY DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE SOMETHING WHICH YOU CAN STAND ON, A VERTICAL WALL) Not an example of pixel walking: i.gyazo.com/65847484d68234594c30d845eb03.. (notice krimz is standing on a texture which clearly APPEARS TO BE A LEDGE) Basically, it doesn't matter if technically there is no ledge there. From the player's perspective, there is a ledge there, and they are only trusting that Valve put the correct texture on that wall. All krimz did was trust that this object which clearly appears to be a ledge, is actually a ledge, and that sounds reasonable to me. If you agree that what olof/krimz did was pixel walking, then you inherently also agree that for each object players stand on, they are responsible for confirming that the architecture which is presented in game is its true internal architecture.
2014-11-29 00:12
#1
vsm | 
Sweden deejaro 
nice try flusha
2014-11-29 00:13
People crying saying that its legit and that its valves fault for not patching it, this would apply when MM but not in a tournament which has its own rules (e.g. pixelwalking). The boost just made the match useless.
2014-11-29 00:17
the most funny thing is that you say its against the rules e.g. pixelwalking, but it's not pixelwalking. LOL.
2014-11-29 00:22
2014-11-29 04:45
actually this dreamhack does not have a rulebook that clearly states what is permitted and what not. the image with dreamhack rules that now circulates around here is from another dreamhack event. however, regardless if it's legit or not, that boost is definetly gamebreaking and fnatic are scumbags for not reporting such blatant exploit.
2014-11-29 04:56
#126
 | 
Finland Kurppa 
This dreamhack does have a rulebook. But it was shown only to the people competing in the tournament, and not for the public. People were posting Dreamhack Summer rules earlier.
2014-11-29 09:51
ahhaha
2014-11-29 00:29
nice try flusha
2014-11-29 00:13
Are you an idiot? You think that ledge is something that could be stood on in our real physical world?
2014-11-29 00:13
Use the force Olof use the force!
2014-11-29 00:15
#9
Sweden dellx 
so, you think that humans shouldn't be able to stand on ledges? there's like a trillion internet photos to prove you're wrong
2014-11-29 00:16
lmao. I specifically said "that ledge" but your points are so ridiculous that I think you're a troll anyway
2014-11-29 00:19
so ridiculous that your attempt to counter them is to say that you shouldn't stand on ledges. you're doing great, champ
2014-11-29 00:21
One of main points of this thread is the difference between horizontal and vertical surfaces, mainly known as ground and wall. So if you dont recognize the difference in this case, you shouldnt be here.
2014-11-29 00:26
Then how about the basically thousands of boosts on Inferno? Do you really think those ledges is something that could be stood on in our real physical world?
2014-11-29 00:34
No, and that's why arguing about whether something could be stood on is retarded. The fact of the matter is that OP is wrong, especially because he isnt standing on (or looking at) the ledge: i.imgur.com/AROrw0u.jpg
2014-11-29 00:39
Why does looking at the ledge matter? Also, the rules specifies Pixelwalking as "sitting or standing on INVISIBLE map edges" and when talking about invisible I highly doubt they mean in some map editor OR how they are standing because 1) it would be ridiculous 2) every boost on Inferno and other maps looks like they are standing on "invisible map edges" in that case. Pixelwalking isn't even the problem with this boost to people honestly, it's the effectiveness of the boost.
2014-11-29 00:49
show me where his foot is touching this ledge on this photo cause for me he is in air
2014-11-29 00:45
where his feet are is completely irrelevant. that's a technical detail which is outside of the scope of the player's knowledge of the game. you need to think about this from the player's perspective, else you're going to just use faulty and misleading logic
2014-11-29 00:47
ok assume that i agree still, he has vision there through a wall + they did another illegal boost on b site
2014-11-29 00:49
As has been stated, you can always rotate from a ledge so that you feet are dangling off nothing. From every ledge. It is simply a ... feature, of the engine. The feet are cosmetic, and the true collision detection is a platform. tinypic.com/view.php?pic=11weha9&s=8#.VH.. If you are so concerned with feet, you can clearly see that his foot can be on the ledge. Just that when he rotates, it appears that he is floating. This is not pixelwalking. So DH had to find another rule that fnatic had broken, or they had to accept the outcome of the match. The one they found, invisible textures, however applied to LDLC's boost as-well.
2014-11-29 04:40
+1
2014-11-29 04:58
Yep. Because CS:GO is a real life war simulator, everybody knows that.
2014-11-29 00:19
That's the point OP made. I'm disagreeing with it.
2014-11-29 00:20
well, you're stupid
2014-11-29 00:34
#6
Germany Ed46 
Saw flag, stopped reading...
2014-11-29 00:15
+1
2014-11-29 00:16
Real swedes are NiP supporters though. These people still supporting fnatic are kids and new to CS.
2014-11-29 00:30
I'm glad we have "TubeWoody" here to speak on behalf of the entire real Swedish population.
2014-11-29 00:48
I know, aren't I just the best? srsly, "Real swedes" was a joke, but it still scares me how people still support fnatic and how they are 90% Swedish.
2014-11-29 00:54
It's not like that Swedish-international ratio for fans of this fnatic team was ever that different. Besides, gotta love that boost.
2014-11-29 00:59
This tournament has rules. One of these rules is to not pixel-walk. "Pixel-walk" does not mean that you're walking/standing on no pixels (that's not even possible), it means you're walking/standing on only very few pixels. But most of all: It means that standing/sitting on "platforms" that are made of only very few pixels isn't allowed. This has always been a rule in competitive CS. Welcome to competitive CS. Have a nice stay.
2014-11-29 00:19
Tournament rules: pbs.twimg.com/media/B3j8BNbIgAAMhZE.jpg:.. That is not an invisible map edge
2014-11-29 00:18
It is. "Invisible" in the way of "only a couple of pixels", thus making it look like you're standing "on something invisible" respectively flying. i.imgur.com/AROrw0u.jpg i.imgur.com/5e2T6l6.jpg You could even use that for a wiki article called "Pixel walking".
2014-11-29 00:23
it's not invisible. what OP means is that u can clearly see an edge -> not invisble. the graffitti-walk is pixelwalking. but not this.
2014-11-29 00:24
Even on that graffiti wall you will find some pixels standing out. You can't stand on no pixels. Jeeeez, people these days.
2014-11-29 00:25
Exactly, you will find SOME PIXEL STANDING OUT FROM A FUCKING FLAT WALL. Do you get it? Krimz stood on an edge. There was a real edge there -> Pixel have to stand out. Jeeeeez, people these days.
2014-11-29 00:28
HOW IS THE EDGE INVISIBLE? gyazo.com/678cfc64b0b20e4c4271fccf21df14.. You see an edge there, right? That's because it's not invisible Where krimz's feet actually are is IRRELEVANT. That's a technical detail outside of the realm of the player.
2014-11-29 00:29
That picture doesn't load...please use imgur. Check the map in Hammer Editor. I bet my ass there's something sticking out. Even if it's just the result of bad clipping. There are no "ghosts" in the source engine that make people fly.
2014-11-29 00:34
#129
 | 
Finland Kurppa 
Isn't these rules like from 1.6 or something?
2014-11-29 10:17
that s true otherwise i could use a spot on mirage that will make ur eyes pop out when u rush the a bombside , but i don t it because its forbidden
2014-11-29 00:20
who the fuck are you and why would we care about your MM career ?
2014-11-29 01:01
wtf:))
2014-11-29 00:21
no, it means that you are not allowed to stand on top of a clipping-block that is designed to stop you from standing somewhere, which is not the case here. staning on a visible block that is only a few pixels is allowed
2014-11-29 01:13
It's obvious that it is not intended to stand there and that this map is unplayable if this position is acceptable. They knew that and that they should report this bug rather than abuse it. Behavior like that should not be supported.
2014-11-29 00:17
Judging whether or not that ledge is for standing is at the discretion of the player. Many players, including the casters at the time of the event, thought it was reasonable to stand on that ledge. It's a ledge. It's for sitting on. i.imgur.com/FW1DdII.jpg Show me a post where you complained about that action
2014-11-29 00:23
flusha shut the fuck uuuuup
2014-11-29 00:23
Thats another issue. You actually have to look at the specific rules for this one. We shouldnt mix these up. Fnatic knew the ct-spawnposition is not intended, gamebreaking and probably not in line with the rules. They could ask the admins before the game but dont shamelessly abuse it like that.
2014-11-29 00:27
i completely agree that fnatic should have reported this boost spot, but it's NOT pixel walking. it's just a ridiculously OP boost
2014-11-29 00:34
+1
2014-11-29 01:01
ESL cologn, yep. That should have been a disqualification if you ask me. if it was "DH" rules that is?... dont know the rules of els cologne.
2014-11-29 00:51
stfu already stupid swede if every fucking pro is saying its pathetic and illegal then it probably is
2014-11-29 00:17
I know you can't read because explained in my first few words how fnatic should've reported it and it makes the game stupid
2014-11-29 00:19
it is pixel boosting pls stop defending fnatic they are out of dhw already
2014-11-29 00:20
See, this is how I know you can't read. I'm not defending fnatic and think they should be penalized for not reporting this to valve/DH
2014-11-29 00:24
Many of you continue saying that what olofm/krimz did was pixel walking, and let me explain why it's not " pls
2014-11-29 00:33
I'm defending them to the point that they didn't pixel walk. But I also agree that they should be penalized for using such a ridiculously OP boost in competitive play and failed to report it to valve/dh
2014-11-29 00:35
well sorry then m8 but every pro is saying they did pixel walk and i wont argue with those guys :) PS : on the other hand flusha is cheating so i think they should be removed without any money :)
2014-11-29 00:39
because they, like everyone else, misunderstand what pixel walking is
2014-11-29 00:38
idk man mb u r right but still having 90 % of the map in your eyes is Opie and they should be punished by bein dq'ed or playing again from 13-3
2014-11-29 00:40
yes i agree, replay would be best
2014-11-29 00:44
Yeah and they didnt told 100 000 k viewers on twitch that they been talkin to the other pro players backstage. Where they told they would do the same to win. Over and out.
2014-11-29 01:06
If krimz could hold his balance on that small ledge while standing on his toes, i assume he can stand on that grafity piece also.
2014-11-29 00:19
saw the flag, knew it was a swedish fnatic fangirl and stopped reading.
2014-11-29 00:20
#25
KRIMZ | 
Slovakia jurrte 
+1
2014-11-29 00:21
Hello olof
2014-11-29 00:23
doesn't matter, he could see through the wall.
2014-11-29 00:23
show where? I'm only defending the pixel walking accusation. anything else i have no defense for
2014-11-29 00:24
2014-11-29 00:56
damn then yeah, either way that spot is illegal. i'm only arguing that fnatic didn't get on that spot via pixel walking, anything else i don't defend
2014-11-29 00:59
twitter.com/sapotake/status/538416349845.. You're stupid, look at this, in (hammer) if u even know what that is.. there is no edge to stand on, so just stop.
2014-11-29 00:24
lmfao. this is how I know you're an idiot. I explained why this screenshot is irrelevant. This shows the internal architecture of the wall which is unknown to the players. Disgrace to denmark
2014-11-29 00:25
what about this one ? gfycat.com/GrimUniqueInsect
2014-11-29 00:43
i.gyazo.com/6785eecbaea30dbced715211bce6.. I want you to guess what the second link is.
2014-11-29 00:44
how the fuck should players know what the wall made of :D
2014-11-29 00:32
2014-11-29 01:16
#39
France boin 
I thought Fnatic were Genius ? I'm sure Genius can figure out a few console commands or how to launch hammer in two months to check if the boost was legal. When you intend to pull a stunt like this you better be prepared. They wanted to keep it a secret for their advantage ? Here's the drawback.
2014-11-29 00:27
well again, is it reasonable for every player to verify the legitimacy of the objects on which they stand?
2014-11-29 00:31
#59
France boin 
When there is a rule that forbid some positions and when you clearly know you are doing something dodgy ? YES !
2014-11-29 00:36
I'm not saying that position shouldn't be banned and fnatic shouldn't be penalized. I'm saying fnatic did not pixel walk. end of story
2014-11-29 00:37
#127
 | 
Finland Kurppa 
Umm... The boost was legal. Pixelwalking was probably banned in earlier tournaments, so they couldn't use it back then.
2014-11-29 10:06
yeah now look the other side
2014-11-29 00:29
nice try flusha
2014-11-29 00:30
yeah nip doing it, but not fucking everyround and breaking the fucking map. You're even more stupid to defend fnatic, if they knew for 2 months and even said to a guy that posted it long time ago, to take it down... retard.
2014-11-29 00:31
Read the first line of my post, you fucking tool
2014-11-29 00:32
twitter.com/MolluskMoth/with_replies btw. sure it aint pixelwalking SURE.
2014-11-29 00:34
dude again. you keep citing images of the internal architecure of the wall. THE PLAYERS CANNOT SEE THE INTERNAL ARCHITECTURE OF THE WALL, SO IT'S IRRELEVANT.
2014-11-29 00:36
do u say that or do the rules/admins say that, because that is the only thing relevant.
2014-11-29 00:54
the tournament rules say this: pbs.twimg.com/media/B3j8BNbIgAAMhZE.jpg:.. And by this definition, it wasn't pixel walking because on the object which krimz stood, the edge is clearly visible
2014-11-29 00:56
gfycat.com/GrimUniqueInsect and that, not pixel walking i presume??
2014-11-29 00:37
i.gyazo.com/6785eecbaea30dbced715211bce6.. I want you to guess what the second link is.
2014-11-29 00:41
the thing is, during the game it never crossed my mind it would be illegal trick, it was just brilliant play. only after games the kids who lost the skins brought it up and ldlc got the idea of making the protest. but whatever.
2014-11-29 00:38
in terms of the rules of the tournament, this isn't pixel walking and hence is legal. i still think it's immoral and an unfair way to win because it's "too good". a replay of overpass would be cool
2014-11-29 00:43
Mad LDLC fanbois causing a fuss over lost skins. Don't worry, I'll keep them safe for you.
2014-11-29 00:41
Pixelwalk or not.. This should be allowed cause of this imgur.com/a/et8o4#4
2014-11-29 00:42
i agree that the spot is stupid :)
2014-11-29 00:43
Okay so lets say that the retard spot wasn't pixel walking which I still kinda think it was but what ever. You even used this picture yourself: pbs.twimg.com/media/B3jk_6lCAAAANLS.jpg That image is taken from the same exact match, from the same exact map and half. So they still abused pixelwalking which is against the rules. So they still broke the rules no matter if the OP spot was pixel walking or not. I completely agree with the pros here, if this spot is allowed as "legit" and Fnatic win this match solely because of that spot (which I hope we can all agree on that they did) then competitive scene will be so big of a joke that I don't even know. First all the hacking shit and now this, like for real?
2014-11-29 00:50
yeah I included that image to show that I'm not biased for fnatic. they shouldn't have used that spot, and they should be penalized for it. my only argument is that the way in which they did it isn't pixel walking but the thing about that image is that NiP also used that pixel walk, which would mean DH would need to take action against them as well if they take action against fnatic. I'm pretty sure LDLC used it also but i'm not positive on that
2014-11-29 00:52
funny story is: this was used by nearly everyone on de_overpass. that means aslong fnatic doesn't use it, it's okay? get your shit straight before you post something here.
2014-11-29 01:03
nice try shox. you are far more up than fnatic.
2014-11-29 01:01
that isnt the same spot? Ge had the roof to hos right shoulder. He wasnt sitting on the roof. Right?
2014-11-29 01:20
it should be illegal they already modified the mapo so ppl cant look down there a long time ago, so we just shouldnt be able to look over that wall kkthx
2014-11-29 00:47
#84
Hungary powi 
You are right, but dont expect "hltv experts" to actually reconsider any opinion, they will keep shouting "fnatic cheaters, aimlocks, map exploit users etc. etc... ". There is a clear ledge there that looks like you can stand on it. Also the difference between the hitbox and the visible character model makes it look like the guys is floating in air. Im sure there are a lot of other places on other maps that looks like this, and ppl still using it. Anyway the rules are a bit dumb also. I would allow you anything that the game allows you, its not the players fault, its the game's fault. Valve should do their job to fix things that they do not want to see.
2014-11-29 00:49
+++
2014-11-29 05:05
If if was intended to be stood on there wouldn't be a huge fucking CLIP wall now would there be? The problem here is that the map maker didn't have it out far enough. They're clearly exploiting a flaw in the map which they knew was there previous to the match.
2014-11-29 00:49
OP is clearly faggot
2014-11-29 00:58
o rly :o ?
2014-11-29 02:12
+1
2014-11-29 01:00
OP thinks cs is real life, where u also can stand on eachother while firing sniper rifles. ;)
2014-11-29 01:01
fnatic won, deal with it
2014-11-29 01:01
not gonna happen
2014-11-29 01:07
ppl mad cuz lost skin :D no need to explain :D these retarded ppl wont understand , they just missed their asiimov :D
2014-11-29 01:08
Yes, the players, the organization, the team leader, etc.. need to verify things like this. "You don't go into a map editor to confirm that it is indeed a ledge." Why not? They are the ones that decided to risk tens of thousands of dollars by not verifying. The rules don't say, "No pixel walking, unless you thought that it's not a pixel walk in which case it's OK but don't do it next time". "If you agree that what olof/krimz did was pixel walking, then you inherently also agree that for each object players stand on, they are responsible for confirming that the architecture which is presented in game is its true internal architecture." Yes, that is exactly what I agree with. How is it LDLC's fault that fnatic didn't open up the map in an editor or verify with an admin? By their own admission this was premeditated around 2 months ahead of time. 2 months and an organization with tens of thousands of hours and years of experience in this game and we can't expect them to verify if a wall is really a wall or a ledge? If that isn't expected now then it really should be expected in the future.
2014-11-29 01:12
+1
2014-11-29 01:11
+1
2014-11-29 01:13
tldr: im not a fan of fnatic . bla bla bla , cheatnatic are great.... nt flusha.exe
2014-11-29 01:29
nt flusha #Kappa
2014-11-29 04:46
+99 you are a smart man, op. been having many of the same thoughts for hours trying to shout them at others.
2014-11-29 05:05
+1
2014-11-29 05:06
nonetheless, the boost spot made walls transparent, which is an exploit. also, devilwalk interview: 'oh you know, just 2 months' XD
2014-11-29 10:21
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