Thread has been deleted
Last comment
ScreaM no idea how in-game leading works?
 | 
Spain Alser 
Interview with ScreaM: teamliquid.net/forum/cs-go/493373-scream.. "<...>These top teams, TSM, Fnatic, EnVyUs—they have nothing but skilled players plus a leader. And they play extremely simply. They won’t really rely on tactics." "In the big teams, the leader doesn’t really lead actually." There are some other things he says that I really don't agree with, imo Fnatic would be much worse without pronax. Thoughts?
2015-08-25 02:06
Topics are hidden when running Sport mode.
#1
United Kingdom grund 
when fnatic paused on d2 against nV, all pronax said was "aim better"
2015-08-25 02:09
Now that's some quality banter, mate.
2015-08-25 02:12
hey! that's OUR word...
2015-08-25 02:12
oh u brave banter lad u
2015-08-25 02:14
#28
roman | 
Palestine ndr[o] 
lol
2015-08-25 02:34
Haha
2015-08-26 11:29
the real meaning behind "aim better" is to activa haxx or lose :c
2015-08-25 02:24
#30
 | 
Poland bot_taz 
this! so true :P
2015-08-25 02:35
#193
zonixx | 
Serbia vraca 
CRY MORE POLANDO i enjoy it
2015-08-26 12:12
#204
 | 
Poland bot_taz 
kk, still i do not know you shit country and you know mine so w/e.
2015-08-26 14:11
#205
zonixx | 
Serbia vraca 
that just means you are stupid and uneducated
2015-08-26 14:13
#206
 | 
Poland bot_taz 
nt Slovenia.
2015-08-26 14:14
Flusha.exe
2015-08-25 13:10
imgur.com/uvBNGAe " 'AIM' better "
2015-08-27 00:27
nah he just wanted to wait untill JW's fart was gone, the smell made them perform bad
2015-08-25 03:00
i farted while reading this
2015-08-25 03:48
the funny thing is, I actually farted like 1 second before I read it....
2015-08-25 22:57
yeah me too, i was serious haha
2015-08-26 00:35
Haha I laughed mate
2015-08-25 15:29
nah he said you better win or you'll have to go to uni to do arts and craft course
2015-08-25 12:31
shit just like all your other great comments :D
2015-08-25 14:20
#75
 | 
Spain akproxx 
toggle on
2015-08-25 12:51
was vuggo that did the talking during the pause mate.
2015-08-25 15:06
Well isn't that good advice lol? short and effective.
2015-08-25 15:39
"aim better" = turn on cheats obviously, kappa.
2015-08-25 16:38
#174
 | 
Romania Cuntstantin 
you made my night
2015-08-25 23:22
#178
 | 
Denmark U w0t m8? 
but it worked didn't it
2015-08-26 10:56
aim better won u all madafaka
2015-08-26 12:45
No he didnt
2015-08-27 00:29
Pretty sure Scream has a more accurate perspective of how it works within the scene than you mate
2015-08-25 02:09
#6
 | 
Spain Alser 
I'm asking for opinions, my perspective that ScreaM thinks every team plays like Kinguin does
2015-08-25 02:11
Some teams do. Cloud9 works only like that. On ESL povs you could clearly hear it. However ScreaM played in VG with Ex6. He's the kind of leader that leads, or let an other player from his team lead for a whole round
2015-08-25 02:25
What do you mean Cloud9 works only like that? Did you hear their comms at ESL ESEA Pro League? Seangares wasn't just like "ok skadoodle, you shoot the people with the long gun and the rest of you use the other guns and we need to plant the bom ok break" no, he was constantly telling them player's tendencies and how to counter them, on T side they did use tactics, like "Bread and Butter" on Cobble or "Veggie Wrap" on cache.
2015-08-25 15:31
Sean Gares is totally different from the other IGL's, while others just tell to the team what to execute, Sean actually explains why you should do this, he let's you in his mind flow, bringing more understanding and synergy for the whole team
2015-08-27 00:11
He's only talking about the top teams, not "every team". And he's right if you've listened to the comms.
2015-08-25 12:58
Probably why Titan and Envy wanted nothing to do with Scream. They called him out about it earlier saying he does not understand.
2015-08-25 15:41
+1
2015-08-26 23:34
How so? He's been on one legitimate team since getting booted from Titan for lacking the knowledge to play the game properly and his current team is tier 2 at best and runs absolutely no strats at all. Clearly the most intelligent guy to comment on IGL role.
2015-08-25 22:58
+1
2015-08-27 00:19
much worse without pronax , dude he is just saying what they will do at the start of the round , the rest is olofmeister +flusha+jw
2015-08-25 02:09
Looool gold nova go a/go b says... Pronax is best mid round called in world
2015-08-25 23:17
You have to be joking, pronax is without a doubt the best mid-round caller, he reads the game so fucking well unlike sgares and all the other reddit igl's
2015-08-26 11:40
just watch vods. mid-round calls are more important and the classical IGL is gone. Almost everybody in the topteams gives input throughout the rounds. I guess it's only really important in pauses. You can see in topteams that strict tactics won't work all the time.
2015-08-25 02:10
He's right tho, look at this ; ex6tenz call : yo RpK try to creep up short and get an entry bro * JKS killed RpK-D- with m4a4 * pronax call : ok flusha you try to go slow B , olofm you try to peek A * flusha killed Happy with ak47 * * flusha killed apEX with ak47 * * flusha killed kennyS with ak47 * * olofmeister killed k1oshima with galil* * olofmeister killed NBK with galil* ezpz
2015-08-25 02:10
#18
kennyS | 
Turkey J1T_T3R 
lol'd
2015-08-25 02:24
hahahahah
2015-08-25 02:27
#34
 | 
Spain Alser 
Can't argue with that haha
2015-08-25 02:44
ahahahaha
2015-08-25 02:46
hahah
2015-08-25 03:04
LOL
2015-08-25 04:21
can't argue with that...
2015-08-25 12:57
lmfao
2015-08-25 14:23
T_T
2015-08-25 14:41
true
2015-08-25 15:01
#121
 | 
Brazil Nobuga 
+1 lmao
2015-08-25 15:18
#182
allu | 
Finland Fherrera 
hahaha +1
2015-08-26 11:18
can confirm
2015-08-26 23:41
Fnatic wouldn't be Fnatic without Pronax. People just don't get it.
2015-08-25 02:12
#61
 | 
Brazil Collee 
Ofc They would be a better team, there's no doubt
2015-08-25 04:12
That's because you were a gold nova at best pre vac wave and no understanding of the game. Probably.
2015-08-25 16:05
7-1
2015-08-25 23:21
pronax never been far with his teams in any touraments in cs 1.6 so i m not sure about this...
2015-08-25 15:38
#170
Gux | 
United Kingdom Adward 
olofm wasn't much in 1.6 either
2015-08-25 23:17
they need henryG as their coach
2015-08-25 02:13
that would be AMAZING! and -fox +niko and fan fucking favorite
2015-08-25 03:04
Every top team challenge is to actually lead the less possible .. leading and having tactics make you predicltable .. i remember JW saying Fnatic were trying to play with guts feeling as much as possible .. happy tactics are very simple too , rely more on his teammates skills than tactics .. ofc tactics can be good for you when you're a new teams , aka watch how C9 anti strated all thoses european team , but once you get figured out , they can anti strat you too , that why C9 failed to get out of group stage .tactics are part of CSGO , but ultimatly you wanna play as much as possible with guts feeling as long as you have the basis between your team , to be as much unpredictable as possible ..
2015-08-25 02:18
c9 failed to get out of group stage because lack of variety , they kept doing the same shit for the past 4~3 events .
2015-08-25 02:26
basicaly what i just said if you think of it ..
2015-08-25 02:32
oh lol i read it too fast, didn't notice the " they can anti strat you too "
2015-08-25 02:34
I think ur penis is tiny.
2015-08-25 02:21
Think he's right to some extent. We all know Happy just baits for frags all game. I suppose when there's that much individual skill on a team, there isn't too much IGL'ing required. I suppose it's an interesting argument all around. If you've got the skill, and have reasonably jelled together over a period of time, then getting complex with calls isn't really necessary.
2015-08-25 02:27
No hltv hasn't any idea how igl works. Bot B:Rush B Hltv:OMG what a mastermind
2015-08-25 02:44
ScreaM has played with Ex6TenZ, therefore I'm pretty sure he knows what he is talking about. Just look at a team like fnatic, pronax has 4 top 10 players in his team, he doesn't decide what they do, because they're fucking great at deciding what to do themselves, he just calls the tactic based on reads and if olofm/flusha/krimz/jw want to be the lurker when the tactic goes through, then they don't even have to ask, they do it themselves.
2015-08-25 02:57
> top 10 more like top 5 in each category not to mention 2 of the worlds best players.
2015-08-25 02:59
I agree but they are all within the top 10 overall is what I meant
2015-08-25 03:07
Oh well yeah :)
2015-08-25 03:46
He's right. But who said the only job of a leader was to create tactics ? IGL like Happy and pronax are good game readers, they predict what the others teams do and call a setup and the skilled players go to their zones and do their jobs with their great skill. It's not negative to say that a team doesn't rely on tactics and weird strats/executions. Watching POV is enough to understand that the IGL actually calls nothing special, he's just reading and call setups/strats.
2015-08-25 03:11
its pretty obvious, what did you think igl's do? tell them step by step what to do where to aim etc? i had a pretty good idea how it works, igl is a guy who reads the game very well and know what strats/decisions to take to counter the enemy team, if a igl says for example "do split B like this and this and this" players will do what he asked for but very liberaly and probably many igl's in a tied up game or a match that doesnt matter that much will just let players do their thing, like split up , and try to get some picks doing their own "tricks" and stuff that they are used to and as scream said individual skill> tatics kinguin and e-frag are a pretty good example of that
2015-08-25 03:19
It's true, every pro will say this.
2015-08-25 03:53
#58
Spain Ayrr 
Fnatic for example has success because of the midround calls pronax does based on the the info they collect during the round as a team -1 pushing there, 1 lurking here, 1 holding mid, etc - before starting their push, basic stuff (like any other igl) but It's just like how Pronax does it. Every team could do that, but Fnatic highlights because their strong point it's their teamplay and their individual skill ofc. This is how top teams works mate. The only thing that could be different to that is when the in game leader calls for a fast 4 man rush trying to catch off guard the enemy some round, etc based on reads.
2015-08-25 04:09
the players are not brainless..even wihtout pronax they would know what to do in lot of case, igl is a bit overated, you need players with game sense
2015-08-25 15:42
ikr, I fucked that part ''but It's just like how Pronax does it'', meant to say ''but it's just how the players does it'', but afterall u will always need someone to keep reading what the enemy does, letting the other free for other stuffs.
2015-08-25 15:45
#60
Sweden pyth 
People overrate the "IGL" or "Leaders" Kinda match, sure they are doing a really good job but you have to keep in mind that in every team all individuals come up with tactics and have individual calls on different rounds.
2015-08-25 04:05
Still a swedish flag i see.
2015-08-25 04:22
downvote
2015-08-25 20:33
Hey, Pyth! That's why I think coaching is the near future of CS. Do you agree?
2015-08-25 05:24
what about developing a style? reading the other team's mind etc? do other players aside from the leader have some impact on that stuff aswell?
2015-08-25 05:29
could you give us a real example of what real pro IGL do in professional matches? :\ honestly most of us have no idea.. I my mind I assume IGL plans the execution, general stuff of what we're going to do and etc. The rest are improvisation. but who knows
2015-08-25 13:00
Youtube POV video's from Pro Games - I believe most of us do have an idea :) youtube.com/playlist?list=PLeOvrZ6ozGzyO..
2015-08-25 13:50
wow this is useful, thanks man I'm quite interested in this. I hope I have some free time to watch this.
2015-08-25 14:39
It is interesting.. If you're an IGL it really makes you feel better knowing how much the other players provide information and help with in-game calls.
2015-08-25 15:58
Do you speak french and swedish or what?
2015-08-25 15:01
I do not but they're are some you can find with subtitles - I tend to watch the coL, iBP or Cloud 9 videos. Example - youtube.com/watch?v=wMiTcmWqJ4I
2015-08-25 15:55
that depends on the way the team works. Some leaders allow a lot of personal initiative and will listen to individual calls, some won't do it that often. I'd say that in the end the decision should always be the leader's, otherwise he's no leader. It's just that modern IGLs aren't really IGLs, that's why you say they're 'overrated' :). Honestly I think the game has degraded tactically, became too aim-based. Newschool players pay little attention to game sense, don't play by the book and tactical part became more 'democratic' now - as you describe.
2015-08-26 12:54
He should watch C9 pov vs nV @EEPL :) If that's not leading.. I don't know what sean did
2015-08-25 05:27
#72
 | 
Poland MatiPasio 
what do you mean?
2015-08-25 12:27
i thought we knew "all aim no brain"
2015-08-25 05:32
i completly agree with him!
2015-08-25 05:36
It's true. If you want tactics, you play like VP, Na'Vi or Titan. If you know you can out aim them, you play like fnatic, TSM & nV. They rarely do anything too special as a team, just outplay their oponents individually with some guidance of where is best to run.
2015-08-25 13:00
Look at EnVy they don't even have an IGL.
2015-08-25 13:00
Happy is their IGL but EnVyUS is probably the most skilled team atm. Both fnatic and TSM have typical IGL - karrigan and pronax.
2015-08-25 13:06
If you listen to the POVs happy calls 2/30 rounds.
2015-08-25 13:08
so who is calling in NV? NBK or apEX?
2015-08-25 13:11
Apex sometimes says when to go in but they hardly do anything but trash talking and just chatting. They do call out the positions of enemies but they don't base their play on too many tactics.
2015-08-25 13:13
Why are you spreading BS? Are you just trolling cause these kids will believe what you said
2015-08-26 11:43
You were trying to reply to yourself, I take it.
2015-08-26 12:04
I am just wondering are you NBK? Cause you seem to know alot about apEX does on the calling, aswell as happy. Great insight m8.
2015-08-26 12:35
Nope, just watch the POV streams. Let me tell you how this conversation is gonna work out: 1. You try to start a fight because you think you know something about the subject even though you admittedly don't even care about the context. 2. You are going to call me and anyone who has an opinion on the subject an "idiot" without any basing. 3. You realize you are incapable of proving your own point so you start to repeat the same things over and over again. 4. Everyone laughs at you. 5. You come to the conclusion you can't come up with anything smart to defend your point of view so you leave, your tail between your legs like you always do.
2015-08-26 12:43
What pov streams??????? Rofl. There is none for this nv lu
2015-08-26 12:52
See, exactly what I said happened.
2015-08-26 13:03
Yeah once again twice in a row you have nothing to backup your statement. Thing is happy makes 100% of the calls, interview by apex and happy czn be found at vakarm.net . You are just a random troll which is not surprising when we consider your nickname lmfao.
2015-08-26 13:13
And you have? You're just a random troll on the forums. Everyone hates you go cry to your mom. Oh does she hate you too? Stop being such a sad little bitch, grow some balls and get a real job. You are so clueless.
2015-08-26 13:22
" Everyone hates you go cry to your mom. Oh does she hate you too? Stop being such a sad little bitch, grow some balls and get a real job." salt is so real it hurts
2015-08-26 23:47
You do realize this guy has been bugging me and raging at me for two months already with two different accounts. It gets on your nerves.
2015-08-26 23:52
from interview of happy, he think this game is more about alchemy between the players than complex tactics, he think simple strats executed perfectly are the key and the hardest to counter, it's what pay off for him,coehison between players and also everyone doing what he want them to do.
2015-08-25 23:05
TSM without karrigan would be still chokenitas fnatic without pronax wouldn't dominate so hard team that doesn't really rely on strats is Kinguin my friend
2015-08-25 13:04
yeas but their igl is with them since one or 2 weeks
2015-08-25 22:53
Fnatic without Pronax would pretty much be Swedish LGB (olofm, dennis, maikelele, KRiMZ, skytten). Pug type strats and alot of firepower, but never really achieved anything since they lacked structure and leadership.
2015-08-25 13:16
#60
2015-08-25 13:33
So?
2015-08-25 14:30
You can't credit fnatic's success to pronax. Also LGB didn't have flusha and JW.
2015-08-25 14:52
I'm not, entirely. Although, I'm saying that Pronax is probably the main reason that the team got more structured and each player got a more defined roll. Pretty much the same thing with TSM. Karrigan has helped them alot. It's the small things that matters though. You till need to have the best players to be the best team.
2015-08-25 15:20
Karrigan helped them a lot fragwise fetish was like a bot.
2015-08-25 15:25
And I guess the rest of the team suddenly learned how to play T side, got over their choking habits and learned how to counter and beat Fnatic simply by the help of Karrigans fragging abilities?
2015-08-25 16:24
#171
Gux | 
United Kingdom Adward 
rofl +1
2015-08-25 23:19
LGB (olofm, dennis, twist, krimz, cype) defeated fnatic (pronax) in Katowice in 2014.
2015-08-25 15:02
Yeah, and that fnatic was in terrible shape. Never achieved anything worth mentioning after their win at DH Winter.
2015-08-25 15:16
Tbh, Devilwalk was a terrible player, if you play 4v5, it's pretty hard to achieve something, looks like @ DHW2013 four of them had a game of their lifes, and NiP had Fifflaren :-) But it also means you can't win, relying only on strats, you can lose to some team of crazy aimers, like fnatic did in Katowice, or VP - vs Kinguin.
2015-08-25 15:23
I never thought that the previous Fnatic roster was anything special to be honest. It's not really something spectacular that LGB beat them in Katowice, especially since it was a domestic matchup. Don't get me wrong, the previous LGB was good, but they solely played like really aim heavy mix team (much like Kinguin today). They could smash the teams that didn't have the skill or strategical ability to counter that type of play style. But they could pretty much never beat teams like NiP, VeryGames, Virtus.Pro.
2015-08-25 16:29
well they were the only team to take a map off VP at Katowice 2014
2015-08-25 19:24
LGB also took one map from VP, something that no one else managed do at EMS Katowice...
2015-08-25 22:45
Yeah, the only decent (decent, not great) teams that run a lot of strategy in their game and generally only play according to tactics are Cloud9 and Titan.
2015-08-25 13:21
Actually VP are not that good in terms of aim, they rely on teamwork and experience of neo and taz. Although byali and Snax shines sometimes with their aim.
2015-08-25 15:04
You have no idea what tactics or strategy mean.
2015-08-25 15:30
ok
2015-08-25 15:40
#92
Switzerland kubx 
youtube.com/watch?v=koQoE0UcPDw <<< not a single call given :DD
2015-08-25 13:23
such strats much wow :D
2015-08-25 13:38
#119
 | 
Spain Alser 
Watch the beggining of this ^^ people who say Pronax doesn't call strats
2015-08-25 15:08
I guess it depends on how your team works. When I played, we had maybe 5 strats, the IGL decided if we should run one or not. Mid-game was decided by any of the players who had a good sense of what was happening that round. Of course the IGL would have the absolute final word if it came to that.
2015-08-25 13:45
tbh, pronax is not that great igl ( not even that good as a player) hes got players that can carry him. if the better igl existed in sweden he would be replaced
2015-08-25 14:00
bullshit. pronax's skilled as much as others in fnatic and proved that many times. in Katowice and the Last final match against c9 which was on de_train, he topfragged and got 2-3 entrykills for many rounds because others didn't step up their game. they lost the game. Also if u know his gamestyle, he always play agressive to get more info about the enemy's situation. It makes sense cause 4v5 isn't problem for fnatic when they know where u are.
2015-08-25 15:33
first of all, everyone has a good game. Being consistent is what makes u good. His Leading is good, but its not that great. Ex6 and karrigan read him like a book
2015-08-25 16:18
thats why titan never win
2015-08-25 22:56
lol its not ex6's fault it never was, if shox step up titan easily top6
2015-08-26 10:55
Dude he is talking about ex6 and titan as a whole not just there new lineup. His lineup now is the least skilled that it has ever been.
2015-08-26 23:39
I honestly think he's right about csgo being more of a skill based game. Set strats are becoming a lot less common and dry executes which we would never have seen a year ago are actually more favorable.
2015-08-25 14:36
Oh the irony : ...
2015-08-25 16:10
ScreaM - overrated noobie
2015-08-25 22:54
#165
Sweden BBW 
scream is actually right, but people here think all igl's are masterminds. the brains behind the team. thing is, when i watch dota 2 for example or something else im like damn these guys are good because i dont know what the hell im doing. It's that simple.
2015-08-25 22:59
simple tactics are less random , and this game can be very random
2015-08-25 23:07
It's all about chemistry and communication. You people can't even imagine how important communication is in this game. That's why he's telling that they don't lead much. Collect information and execute. All they do is playing "standard" and decide what is the best to do with information they have collected from each other. I don't even why I try to explain because no one will see this comment. :D
2015-08-25 23:14
hey, dont u know that Kinguin isnt a full team-play team (blah be a bee) but full of individualities, thats why they lose aganist top tier teams. Its obvious u can notice that just either by watching demos ...
2015-08-26 00:40
csgo is a skill based game and considering the experience he has got under different leaders such as ex6, I would agree with im.
2015-08-26 11:48
#198
NEO | 
Poland cm[G] 
tbh when it comes to nv i agree with scream but not the others
2015-08-26 12:48
He means, that the leader don't have to guide the 4 other guys, they already know the strat, because they have done it before = they know what to do.
2015-08-26 14:21
#209
dv | 
United Kingdom dv-_- 
He's right imo - a lot of it is on the fly - the commentators try to paint this chess-like picture during a game to make it seem more interesting, but other than their set strats most of the mid-game calls will be really simple stuff. Obviously each team is different but if you try to control so many things at once, teams usually end up worse off. This is actually one of the main reasons I hate the commentators in GO, it's all just a flurry of fancy words and trying to add glitter to every single in-game action
2015-08-26 14:54
ex-Genuine
1.29
Formidable
3.48
100 Thieves
1.76
G2
2.02
Evil Geniuses
1.24
OG
3.90
Bet value
Amount of money to be placed
Winning
Odds total ratio
-
Login or register to add your comment to the discussion.