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Highest skill games
shox | 
United Kingdom English Gentleman  
Which games require the most skill or have the highest skill ceiling in your opinion?
2015-10-21 20:43
Tetris. End of discussion.
2015-10-21 20:45
Europe KrzywO_oki 
2015-10-21 20:47
2015-10-21 21:15
2015-10-21 21:24
swag | 
Australia Gimlyy 
2015-10-22 13:38
2015-10-22 23:22
2015-10-22 23:46
Russia RacerJuiced_ 
2015-10-23 13:35
2015-10-21 23:58
+over 9000
2015-10-23 21:40
2015-10-24 20:35
LoL/Dota. I reached GE in 1 year and I played LOL for 2+ years and barely got over diamond. The amount of information you must process is also a lot higher in LoL/DOTA than it is on CS. PS: I reached GE with 0 cs experience prior
2015-10-21 20:47
true, cs go is easy to master
2015-10-21 20:47
Denmark eXxE 
Would like to see you compete in the pro scene then :)
2015-10-21 20:49
Germany Robbery 
same goes for dota bro
2015-10-21 21:07
well it is easy to master compared to lol and dota
2015-10-21 23:27
LoL easier than DotA2, lad.
2015-10-22 10:57
might be dont know about that
2015-10-22 13:20
DOTA is a whole lot more complex with denying creeps and so on. LoL is childs play when compared to DOTA or even HoN.
2015-10-23 13:19
denying creeps from enemy?
2015-10-23 14:15
You can kill friendly creeps u know
2015-10-23 15:25
2015-10-23 15:56
great answer
2015-10-23 16:00
like u master any games haha.. nt kim jung lil or wtf ur kind is called
2015-10-22 11:32
in your opinion CSGO is not easy to master?
2015-10-22 13:40
Denmark eXxE 
Are you a pro? No? Okay, then how the fuck can you say it's easy..
2015-10-22 15:16
Because they think getting globe means they've mastered the game.
2015-10-23 13:22
Denmark eXxE 
Yeah, i bet you are right. Global doesn't mean anything really..
2015-10-23 15:18
Global means nothing tbh. Dont compare pros with GE. Bitch plz
2015-10-21 20:49
And you can't even compare Challenger players to PROs, let alone master tier or diamond. Your argument is dumb. The information needed to process in LoL/Dota is wayyyyyy higher than it is in CS.
2015-10-21 20:51
Information processing isn't the only skill in the world. CS skill vs. moba skill is just fundamentally different. The accuracy and speed with which you can land a headshot in CS is virtually limitless ceiling-wise as well. Or the accuracy with which you can spray every bullet of a clip at any range. Or how well you can read the other opponents' tactics round-to-round. CS mechanics are more like hitting a baseball, while moba mechanics are more like fighting games (sequence of button presses based on a logically correct situation to press them), that's all.
2015-10-21 21:07
Norway apEZ 
2015-10-21 21:27
+1. cs game with highest skill cap
2015-10-21 21:36
not actually just sequence of button presses it's also map awareness and every second readjusting + making a new decision and step which could be game losing.
2015-10-21 22:42
right, and obviously also, CS is not just about tracking your mouse onto some pixels really accurately. There are many things you have to do to enable or facilitate that. I was just boiling it down to a simple analogy for people who keep arguing "oh this is so much more skillful, look how much stuff there is going on which you have to process!"
2015-10-21 22:45
well yeah u said it it's fundamentally different but i think dota is harder cuz of over 100 heroes + millions of diverse strats.. cs is not that vaste
2015-10-21 22:48
I can just as easily argue in Dota or League, you don't need to be pixel accurate mechanically with the mouse, and every map is essentially the same and doesn't require any memorization of the unique features of each map.
2015-10-21 22:56
+1 Airasia OP
2015-10-22 05:55
+9000 I see a bunch of LoL/Dota fanbois trying to justify their game and it's just sad. It's a different type of game requiring different sets of skills. People like this dumbass "SteelHard" guy is an embarrassment to the gaming community.
2015-10-22 10:30
do you think in cs you have to press wasd move your mouse and shoot? no. I play as a lurker / igl, I'm always 10 steps ahead, if I'm lurking I know what I'll do at certain time, if that fails i need to think of another plan, fails? think for another plan all u have to do in CS is THINK and use your brain, then aim comes in.
2015-10-23 13:15
K den
2015-10-23 13:36
you can't always outsmart an opponent which u don't know anything about his playstyle so that's relevant for both games
2015-10-23 23:00
+1 this. You can't compare FPS games with MOBA games
2015-10-23 13:13
Estonia eQ. 
If you dont play a situation in CS:GO correctly, it costs your team a round. In LoL you can save yourself.
2015-10-21 22:01
By master what do you mean? Because if I said i mastered a game I'd like to think it means not only do i know everything there is to know about the game but also have reached my highest level of skill. If you 'mastered' csgo, you should be climbing your way up the leader boards trying to get noticed by a bigger team.
2015-10-22 23:33
to master your aim , sure it's easy but to refine your gamensense and a deeper knowledge about the game requires years of playing.
2015-10-23 14:57
dota2 is much more harder than Lol hardest chess with windows 10
2015-10-24 19:44
Cuz ranks are fucked up
2015-10-21 20:49
Mobas require skill for the first 20 minutes, then it becomes a game of who has the better/more fed hero.
2015-10-21 20:49
And you get fed how? By sucking? lmao. Same shit as saying cs requires skills for the first 20 minutes then it becomes a game of who has better aim.
2015-10-21 20:52
moba fanboy ^ rofl
2015-10-21 20:55
Your character doesn't get more health, doesn't do more damage. It's an even playing field the whole game. Besides do you just starting running around after 20 minutes in cs? If so i can't see how you are a global.
2015-10-21 20:56
saying mobas require skill for the first 20 minutes is ignorant as fuck and you should know that
2015-10-21 23:30
you can comeback at any point in CS. Except when its 16-xx
2015-10-21 21:11
Portugal dashh 
well if it's 16-15 u can still comeback, so ur point isn't valid
2015-10-21 23:27
ok 16 - <=14
2015-10-21 23:40
^ Look guys, a retard. Don't ever go full retardelele.
2015-10-21 22:49
People really need to stop evaluating their "skill" by looking at their match making rank. GE in CS:GO is like hitting level 30 for your LoL account. You've finally learned the basic mechanics of the game and now you're ready for the REAL RANKED games. LoL ranks = bronze to challenger CS:GO ranks = ESEA-open to ESEA-professional If you're not even in a league in CS:GO...then you're a fuqing bronze in this game....
2015-10-21 20:52
2015-10-21 20:51
+1 I'm terrible myself but GE. Everyone in ESEA-IM is SMFC/'s the BARE minimum if you're planning on playing league games with an actual team.
2015-10-21 20:53
yeah its crazy how easy it is to get ge but its real hard to be a top level pro
2015-10-21 20:55
well yeah cause valve's MM ranks are stupid for almost a year now... it's crazy how easy it is to get to Global Elite but how hard it is just to make ESEA-IM playoff..
2015-10-21 21:03
I'm supreme and I'm proud why everyone say GE so ez :(
2015-10-21 21:32
80% of them aren't even supreme don't worry :)
2015-10-21 23:57
thanks <3
2015-10-22 00:24
GE is full of toxic little kids lol Only fun thing you can do in GE is troll the tryhards that cry all game:p
2015-10-22 23:40
Every rank is full of toxic people. It's the nature of the internet. You're hidden behind your monitor so you can act like a total dick.
2015-10-23 13:15
I agree but to some extent. I feel like even 1 rank lower at smfc you don't run into a toxic little shit every single game, but at GE it's about 4 outta 5 games full of toxic kids haha
2015-10-23 21:20
Haha, that's why I always play full party. Then the enemy can be all toxic among themselves whilst we laugh at them.
2015-10-25 19:29
yea because the amount of ESEA-Open & ESEA Professional players are so proportional to the amount of people playing rankeds in LoL. Dumb argument, poor excuse to think that cs needs more skill.
2015-10-21 20:53
what the hell are you talking about? ESEA pro has like only 20 teams, as you go down the ranks the more players you's the same shit in LoL...there's a billion bronze players but only a handful of challengers... Are you even in a team?
2015-10-21 20:55
There's actually 100 challenger per region last time I checked and that's because Challenger tier IS LIMITED to 100 players. Completely different. Besides, ESEA is trash, RWS is even worse than MM ranking system.
2015-10-21 20:57
i'm not talking about ESEA's pug system nor their RWS...i'm strictly talking about the league where an actual team plays vs an actual team on a scheduled map each week. There's open, im, main, premier, and professional. Those are like your LoL ranks. Not valve's shitty MM system where guys like you and me are comparable to olofmeister just cause we're all Global Elite...
2015-10-21 21:01
No one compares GEs to pros, like no one compares pros to Challengers or master tier.
2015-10-21 21:05
Netherlands :'( 
100 challengers only? hello?
2015-10-21 21:50
Your argument is even more stupid. There is more people playing LoL/Dota, so the competition is of course harder to get up to the high ranks. You're absolutely right that getting to GE now is easy, but GE isn't anything. You still need to add another two or three levels from there until you have a shot at playing in a good team. Even "nonamers" from matches here on hltv are a level higher than the actual GE level. But you can't base which is harder on your own experience, or you can, but it doesn't tell anyone anything other than you might be better and more suited for one of the games - or the fact that you play in one of the easier regions when it comes to cs...
2015-10-23 21:37
EU > any other region how is it the easiest?
2015-10-23 22:15
Understand that there are different servers (server hubs) and that it is very rare you will be allocated to play on the swedish ones.
2015-10-23 22:16
I don't like that analogy cause you can get to level 30 in LOL by playing against bots but you can't get GE by playing against bots in CS... or can you? :^)
2015-10-21 22:39
+1 I'm smfc, and I'm still not ready.
2015-10-23 13:17
being GE definitely means you're good at the game Kappa any half decent player with anything that remotely resembles brain can get to supreme/ge with little to no effort but most of the players, including myself, are pretty bad
2015-10-21 20:51
a half decent player can't get to diamond/master tier / challenger in lol though. I legit lmao every time someone says LOL/DOTA are easy, they probably couldn't even make it past gold in a year.
2015-10-21 20:54
I dont know how hard/easy mobas are since they don't interest me the slightest, but using global as any form of metric to determine someones skill level is beyond ridiculous. MM Rank in cs means literally nothing, it probably does in lol/dota. A completely different metric.
2015-10-21 20:56
a half decent player can't get into ESEA-main (diamond equivalent) what league are you Mr. I've mastered CS:GO....please link us your team profile.
2015-10-21 20:56
Yes because semi pro level = diamond LMAO how dumb can you be. A Diamond couldn't even get over 2 kills against PRO players
2015-10-21 21:04
ESEA-Main is NOT semi-pro...This is the rank that most average players like me try to reach (aka like diamond in LoL). ESEA-Premier is semi-pro (players with amazing natural talent but lacking teamwork)...(this is like low tier challengers) ESEA-Professional = pro...(upper tier challengers) DURRRRRRRRRRR
2015-10-21 21:10
/facepalm im done
2015-10-21 21:09
what league are you in CS:GO? Are you just a MM hero?
2015-10-21 21:10
ta calado e calate sff
2015-10-23 00:15
prove me wrong
2015-10-23 00:56
Netherlands :'( 
balls diamond 2 in korea pls.
2015-10-21 21:44
You seem to have a good grasp on LOL/DOTA. Can you explain to me how 2 players can play it for the same amount of time and yet 1 is better than the other? Where does the skill difference come in to play in a game like that? (Curious cause ive never actually tried either game) When i watch videos of it i just see people clicking to move characters and then clicking on an enemy over and over, hard to tell where the skill gap comes from besides decision making obviously.
2015-10-22 23:44
mechanics, decision making, farming minions, controlling minions waves so it doesn't push your lane or so it makes the wave stay in the midde of the lane, knowing every single spell cooldown in the game (120 champs * 4 = 460 cooldowns to memorize) knowing each champion weakness, remembering the wards timing, baron and dragon timing, while keeping your eyes constantly on map to be aware of the enemy jungler, etc etc
2015-10-22 23:59
Wow never woulda thought all that goes into those games, thanks for explaining that for me I appreciate it!
2015-10-23 00:59
I'm not a fan of LoL anymore, wayyy too hard and competitive IMO but I know plenty of people who love it, you should give it a try with some friends you might enjoy it
2015-10-23 01:06
Yea I've never really been into the point and click style but I might read up on this game just to get a better idea of how it works. Wouldn't hurt to give it a try once I have a better understanding of it:P
2015-10-23 01:39
u got all the timers if you press tab, everybody knows that... so no, no times for baron dragon to memorize. only ward timers. lol is fucking easy, I reached plat with NO experience with MOBA games, and I played lol for like what? 2-3months? its fucking boring man, too easy to play.
2015-10-23 13:19
Get to challenger/master tier in 1-2 years then my friend. No boosting allowed.
2015-10-23 13:48
Norway apEZ 
Lmao esea main is not converted to diamond elo in LoL, get your shit striaght bro
2015-10-21 21:30
it's not the exact equivalent but it's close in terms of difficulty getting there...a better comparison would be RWS since you can solo queue to diamond but you can't solo queue to esea-main. the fact is diamond in league is NOT Global Elite in CS:GO... btw, can you link your team and the league you're in "bro" ??
2015-10-21 21:36
ehh diamond is like 0,1% global elite like 5% tell me when u get invite to some non byoc lans
2015-10-21 20:53 Real percentage is between 0.5-1.9% based on most studies and believing that no one is lying (since people tend to lie to get higher ranks)
2015-10-21 20:56
Here's the funny thing...the majority of ESEA/FPL players don't play valve's MM...if they did then the "real" global elites would come back and your rank would be pushed down severely as a result. Imagine all those players from ESEA-Intermediate to ESEA-Pro actually played valve's MM...would you be Global anymore? SMFC? Probably not even LEM... Your "statistics" don't account for that. and that is why you can't compare it to LoL where everything is unified (all players play the same ladder).
2015-10-21 21:26
+1 I very rarely play MM, mostly play ESEA ladder with my team.
2015-10-22 13:40
i think that statistic is right and you see that LE is the much more casual eZ reaching rank if oyu want to get ge you have to no play like only casual without good headset or a pc on which you have like 60fps or more
2015-10-21 22:10
this probably means that the higher skillgroups in LOL/dota are way harder to reach than in csgo. Being a global means nothing today.
2015-10-21 21:40
nor does it mean LoL/Dota have a higher skill ceiling...
2015-10-21 21:42
Here's the real rank comparison LoL---CS Level 30 account---Global Elite (valve's MM) bronze---Global Elite/9 RWS (ESEA) silver---9.5 RWS (ESEA) gold---10 RWS (ESEA) platinum---11 RWS (ESEA intermediate level players) diamond---12 RWS (ESEA main level players) master/challenger---14+ RWS (ESEA premier-low pro level players)
2015-10-21 22:01
Netherlands :'( 
why dont we say that lol is harder to learn then cs go. but once u know it its easier then cs go? :D
2015-10-21 21:55
I'm not arguing which is harder....that's up to all of you I'm arguing in the dude thinking he's reached the highest level of CS:GO with his "Global Elite" rank. In LoL you can compare yourself to other players because you're all playing ONE ladder. So rank is relevant. CS:GO, most players end up playing in ESEA after hitting Global Elite...if everything was under one ladder system like in LoL then those ESEA players would push down the current Global Elites to lower ranks...understand?
2015-10-21 21:59
Netherlands :'( 
you cant compare yourself in lol either. not sure if u watch ever watched pro games of lol and soloq games. its like watching matchmaking and pro games on cs.
2015-10-21 22:02
Forget pros for a moment... Where are the best players in LoL that are not pro? Where are the best players in CS:GO that are not pro?
2015-10-21 22:04
Netherlands :'( 
korea and eu? :D
2015-10-21 22:07
I meant like rank or outside system (like ESEA)? My guess is diamond/master for LoL...which means a silver can compare himself to a top NON-pro ladder for all...pros have their own circuit of course for LAN qualifiers In CANNOT compare your Global Elite rank to a top NON-pro player...because those top non-pro players are in ESEA-main/premier...
2015-10-21 22:14
Netherlands :'( 
challenger series i would say. thats not soloq challenger rank. cs go u can be in lots of leagues. but some global elites are most likely better in aiming then esea main players. or game sense or w/e But that doesnt make them a better team player. same goes for lol.
2015-10-21 22:20
some global elites are esea main players...but ALL esea main players are global elite of course if i wanted to play mm, i'm global elite (but i'm also low esea-im)... btw my earlier point, an example so you can understand: as a LoL player, i'm platinum and my friend (a top non-pro) is challenger...i am two ranks behind him as a CS:GO player, i'm global elite and my friend (a top non-pro) is esea main do i compare myself to him? i CAN'T because we're not playing the same ladder system...
2015-10-21 22:31
pasha wasn't GE until a few months back, same for freakazoid. Just saying
2015-10-21 22:40
Netherlands :'( 
well theres ppl like u that are boosted globals :\ pls
2015-10-22 00:55
Stop arguing man, some people won't catch your point. It's pretty obvious that GE isn't the highest level u can reach on csgo. It's just the beggining of the road if you want to be better. Being GE is like, ok, you have a good aim... now go learn how the game works playing in teams and leagues.
2015-10-21 22:13
fee fi fo fum i'm tired of these matchmaking bums
2015-10-21 22:15
Dude 11 rws is worse than intermediate players, intermediate players are like 13+ players
2015-10-21 22:19
ok feel free to change it however you like...the point is that valve's mm = shit level and ESEA is where the actual ranks begin..
2015-10-21 22:20
yeah mm is really shit now
2015-10-21 23:23
RWS is a trash way to measure, it only measures impact on win rounds.
2015-10-21 22:59
It is just as accurate measurement of player's qualities as mm rank. What does it mean that I have 16 rws and I lost 16 out of 21 matches? It means I am doing something wrong, doesn't it?
2015-10-23 16:30
retard confirmed. just dont post anymore
2015-10-22 10:20
well probably you are more talented in shooter games than in mobas you know ?! ... i wonder how dumb fox fans can be
2015-10-21 21:43
Then there's literally no measurable way to say that x is harder or more skill based than "x" because each person has different talents.
2015-10-21 22:13
Except valves ranks have nothing to do with the skill ceiling.
2015-10-21 22:10
How fucking delusional are you ? LoL/Dota ?? Have you ever played an competitive RTS like Starcraft ? The mechanical talent and decision making required to make it to the top is 5 times greater at minimum.
2015-10-21 22:21
that u have global doesnt mean u are good in this game
2015-10-21 22:46
I lol'd :D so u must be fuckig bad at these games, I never played dota, but pls LoL is hard? 2 years and u had problems to get diamond? lol I'm not playing LoL anymore cuz this game suck balls, but I got Diamond II easy in 2 months (1,5 year ago) I start playing from silver cuz I wasn't playing this game long time but I came back to it. After 2 months playing, got Diamond II, after that I was done with LoL I sold my acc. Boring game like every moba. Probably I'd go for Challenger but this game took to much my free time and I felt I'm addicted to rankeds ;f
2015-10-21 22:50
ye because global means much
2015-10-21 23:57
Lmao putting lol over cs, StarCraft and even with dota is the most retarded thing possible, pro scene wise cs takes more skill than lol does Should be 1.StarCraft 2.dots 3.cs
2015-10-22 06:16
Good luck processing even half the information a lol pro player processes. Constantly processing enemy movement, predicting enemy tactics, predicting enemy ward placement, while focusing on farming, timers for drake, baron, wards & minion waves and inhibitors, remembering the cooldown of every single ability in the game while having a rough measurement after an enemy used it to know when to counter attack and when the enemy is defenseless, not only that but the calling and action is a lot faster in LoL than it is in cs go, if you watch a LoL POV you'll see what I mean. And unlike in CS GO the IGL in LoL doesn't make(LoL isn't the type of game that allows it) set strategies which pretty much removes a lot of mental effort / information processing since it's pretty much just following the strategy, aim and adapt. In LoL you have a basic strat before the game and you have to handle yourself on your own for 10-15+ minutes while processing nearly as much information as the IGL since he's just there to decide when to teamfight most of the time.
2015-10-22 08:49
El Salvador EzLife 
Try SC2, that shit is REALLY what's hard to master
2015-10-22 08:58
Muahah, skill in lol/dota...ROFL. If you didn't play in Dota 1, then forget about these games u fucking LOSER! Skill in dota.......
2015-10-22 11:11
theres no skill in dota rigth? thats why theres tournaments with 18mil as prize pool rite? ayy. and yes i played lots of DotA back on WC3 days and garena
2015-10-23 13:32
dark souls
2015-10-21 20:46
Starcraft 2 Counter Strike Dota
2015-10-21 20:46
2015-10-21 20:50
f0rest | 
Russia 1.6 FTW 
+1 obviously
2015-10-21 21:39
starcraft 2
2015-10-21 20:53
lmao, sc2 is like lego duplo in comparison to scbw(lego technics)
2015-10-21 22:12
2015-10-22 09:47
2015-10-22 10:26
Just cause 2
2015-10-21 20:55
France blackhawkiva 
sc2 and cs when u played on esea
2015-10-21 20:56
2015-10-21 21:02
EVE requires lots of brain they say.
2015-10-21 21:05
quake 3
2015-10-21 21:05
I would say this is a game where a pro player hops in your server and absolutely obliterates everyone. This happens in CS 1.6 all the time. CS:GO, sometimes the pro just seems like an average player.
2015-10-21 21:07
jR | 
Ukraine lancee 
Hearthstone Kappa
2015-10-21 21:08
Turkey Rtax 
Mass Effect 2
2015-10-21 21:13
Quake /end
2015-10-21 21:20
quake /thread
2015-10-21 21:24
I'd say Quake but I really don't get how that's any more of a higher ceiling than CS... Quake = aim, movement, map knowledge CS = all the above + working in a 5 man team which makes it harder
2015-10-21 21:28
Well the aim and movement is way more complex in Quake and on top of that its a much more high pased game, and on top of that you have to remember all the different itemspawns in the back of your head, which in turn changes all the time depending on when the items are picked up.
2015-10-21 22:01
Quake: timings, map control, item control Quake is also harder because if you fuck up in the beginning, you are on a great way to lose a map. In CS you have little restarts in form of rounds, so if you lose f.e. pistol round on train as CT, you can still do a 11:4 side, due to map favoring CTs. Maps in Quake don't favor anyone, because it is duel with random spawns.
2015-10-21 23:33
SpawN | 
Iceland vasyl86 
2015-10-21 21:29
guitar hero
2015-10-21 21:30
Not CS:GO for sure lol
2015-10-21 21:31
2015-10-21 21:32
civilization 3, 5, homm3
2015-10-21 21:36
Sweden LindqviSt 
mulle meck
2015-10-21 21:38
cs and dark souls
2015-10-21 21:38
When it comes to having a good aim, Wolfenstein Enemy Territory and Quake. W:ET/Quake players' aims are superior to CSGO players' aims imo.
2015-10-21 21:41
Played ET in premier div and I can say this is not true
2015-10-21 22:22
Hungary adzeii 
xDDDD Cb oc div1 really? &#128515;&#128515; When 2012 When the Scene was up to 100 members? &#128515; rofl Since playing oc1 depends on ur own rating When u sign up it sora not mean anything &#128515; Cs compared tobet/rtcw is childplay Cs has nothing on et, cs is so ez
2015-10-22 10:30
You didn't get to premier league by 'rating yourself'. To lower leagues, yes, this was the case. And the respawn and reviving element in ET is what made players make way more ballsy and nonsense plays compared to calculated risks taken in CS. I've played both for a very long time and the game mechanics are way off precision in ET(hitboxes, floaty movement) and noone fixed these issues. Yes, in terms of teamplay elements ET showed more variety, but in precision and aim-wise you are a fucking retard if you think ET can even be compared to CS. I bet you are one of those guys that got to global and now think you have mastered the game or something
2015-10-22 13:46
Hungary adzeii 
Yes, you got. I've played ET for 5 years activly and played CB OC/EC every year, if you rated urself 10/10 you got into 1st div, no background check whatsoever. You don't seem to know much about the system. "And the respawn and reviving element in ET is what made players make way more ballsy and nonsense plays compared to calculated risks taken in CS." The respawn system made the game more fast-paced and yes it made the player to take more risk. But this doesn't mean "nonsense and ballsy" rofl. You just make urself look stupid by stating such undignified statement. Kinda tells a lot about your gameplay knowledge. Are you really comparing ET and CS mechanincs and hitboxes and placing CS on top? :D WOW. etpro hitboxes sucked balls, yes. mostly because etpro development was stopped in 2006 and the code was never given out/sold. but it was much smoother and better than cs will ever be with the broken engine itself. Atleast ET gave you to choose ur own style of aiming, since there is something called MOVEMENT (cs has 0 movement - sorry to break it down to you). tracking aim, reflexes, reaction time and pin-point aiming is part of ET, they are all necessary. However you could correct your mistakes, because you had time to do that, cause the game is not about 1 shot 1 kill and huge luck / random factor (hello CS). You need atleast 3 bullets to kill somebody, but more like 8-10 straight hits without headshots, so yes AIMING pretty much - the thing that CS players don't know much about. So again , CS has nothing on ET, since the luck factor is so high compared to real skill that it becomes ridiculous at one point. But then RTCW needed even more skill. and then Quake 3 owns all these games. 1. Quake 3 2. RTCW/ET 3. any other fps . . . . . 15. CS 16. COD / BF btw, yes I'm global since my 50th win or smth like that and met a lot of pros on pugs , and even when u see pros streaming u can see they are nothing special in pugs without a real team behind them because any pug hero have enough luck in a match to take them down. the problem is there is no real depth in CS :( also im up to install et again to play versus you to see whats ur actual gamesense after hearing so much bullshit in one single comment leave me a pm please
2015-10-22 23:16
I cant agree to many of your points... you cant deny et hitboxes are worse than cs hitboxes, you just cant... and yes you need 3 headshots in et, but you also have nearly zero spraycontrol. As i wrote before, cs is MUCH more about aiming. At the end you can say, cs is only about fragging... Et is much more objective based than cs, it is easily possible to win with less kills than the enemy. Et is more about movement/positioning, teamplay and gamesense. You have to constantly think about your actions. If you have less talent (reaction time + aim(good musclememory)) its much harder to play on a highlevel cs than et. If you have no gamesense, it is hard to play et on a highlevel. But i agree, et has more depth in it than cs!
2015-10-23 13:11
Hungary adzeii 
spray control, kek since even the first bullet is inaccurate in cs how could u perfectly control your spray? there are no two same sprays with the same gun, just try it yourself. no two exact spray patterns. even most of the cs players agree that spraying in cs random, cause it is, explained above and yes, cs hitboxes are much worse than et hitboxes ever were, if you deny that it must be your aim, sorry to say. its just painful to watch a replay with bulletimpacts and see how broken the server/client side registery is. CS is mostly about luck and much less about aiming,teamplay,gamesense,movement - the game has no depth at all and i havent shed a single word about how unbalanced cs can be compared to any other shooters out there
2015-10-23 15:38
"spray control, kek since even the first bullet is inaccurate in cs how could u perfectly control your spray? there are no two same sprays with the same gun, just try it yourself. no two exact spray patterns." The first bullet is accurate if you play on a good server and dont move. And yes, you can control your spray! Every weapon has its own spraypattern. "even most of the cs players agree that spraying in cs random, cause it is, explained above" tell me the players... "its just painful to watch a replay with bulletimpacts and see how broken the server/client side registery is." i hope your not talking about matchmaking servers... And have you ever used bulletimpacts for et? its just ridiculous Et is my favourite game of all time, you dont have to make cs worse than it is
2015-10-23 15:50
Hungary adzeii 
search urself on the site, and no not mm server im talking about if you cant see yourself how random spraying is feel free to test it yourself on any server u wish. i am not naming any, feel free to browse spraying topics yes i did, and much better registry than cs et is not my favourite game (not even close) but obviously much much harder to master than this crap counter strike, the game of randomness
2015-10-23 16:14
i cant agree to this one
2015-10-23 16:26
Hungary adzeii googled inaccuracy in csgo, first hit here csgo is not random? LOL :D:D:D:D
2015-10-23 20:46
id say not more random than et have you ever seen someone doing such an accurate analysis for et?
2015-10-23 21:01
Hungary adzeii 
what the actual fuck is wrong with you seriously can't you just simply accept that cs is random? its obvious, it's proven, it's a fact. if you cant see that with ur own eyes, even without videos like this you are just a blind fanboy. et was a good game, but far from perfect - if this is what you want me to say but will always be more "consistent" than cs will ever be.
2015-10-23 21:30
Every first person shooter is somehow random. My point is, et isnt less random than cs when it comes to hitboxes. Remember the hitboxes while proning? just for example. You have these excellent analysis and so many complaints about cs hitboxes, because cs is much more popular than et. I cant remember any highskilled et player not complaining about the hitboxes actually.
2015-10-23 21:47
Hungary adzeii 
And I've already said: etpro hitboxes sucked, cause the development of the mod stopped in 2006, but were much superior than cs hitboxes, each and every former et player who have tried cs confirms it who ive talked to. /close please
2015-10-23 21:52
Your arguments are based on some players opinions and not on facts. At the time i was active, every pro player would agree its the other way around.
2015-10-23 22:00
Hungary adzeii 
your arugment would be based on some players opinion but it isnt, cause you cant even make them speak have fun playing cs :DDDDDD
2015-10-23 22:05
Hungary adzeii 
edit: just chekced some stuff if u are that estonian guy part of some clan called "epicaimers" that cheated all the way up to oc 2nd league im done :D:D pls don't reply
2015-10-22 23:33 This was the only match anyone cheated, two of my teammates got banned after blatantly cheating, they were not even hiding it. We just wanted someone to get banned to call it quits as we were not going to play with anyone else. Also, I'm not even going to bother with your first comment as you contradict yourself so much, while trying to insult me. It's really sad. But I don't even know who you are, never seen your nick before(if that's your nick of course) and if you ever played EC it's definitely after 2010 when the game became irrelevant and died soon anyways. I'm also not going to continue this debate with you as you clearly think fast paced games are the cream of the crop. Have a nice day and try being an adult for once
2015-10-23 11:12
Hungary adzeii 
Too bad your CF acc is like 5 years old and im doubling yours :( I don't even play ET since 2010 but still following the community. Poor low+ skilled fella trying to give lectures about game mechanism :D:D Come play some ET 1on1, let's not bring your cheats - you know the ones that made you play in OC div 2 :D:D:D
2015-10-23 13:09
i played et from 2003-2013 on a high level and i would say its the complete opposite. Et is all about positioning, teamplay and tactics. Et was much more objective based, cs is much more aim and reaction based. I didnt play 1.6, but when i started with csgo, i had a better gamesense than 99,9% of the community. It still hurts me how dumb most of cs players play and im global elite for 2 years now.
2015-10-23 02:29
You could be right. I actually feel like CS is more about tactics than ET. About aiming skills, in ET you need to hit the enemy 3 times to head to kill one, so you can't really get lucky, while in CS even one shot can be enough to kill an enemy. I didn't play the game on really competitive level though, just scrimmed every now and then with my friends, I was more like a pubstar :D Anyways I respect your opinion.
2015-10-23 08:47
Hungary adzeii 
high level, please we all know you haven't been on high level, all you have tried to get there with random clans, but in the prime of et you weren't even close to be in the top, tier 2 clans don't count sorry. and im saying this with all the respect towards you, we know eachother for long, played with and againts you. yes u were good i got to admit it, but you haven't been on "high level". its like saying i was anywhere near compared to good players, obviously i wasnt.
2015-10-23 15:43
you know my nickname? im not the swedish fuchs... my nickname wasnt fuchs... i stopped playing in clans in 2007 I have played with urtier, butchji, fireball etc, been esl 3on3 rank 1 at a time were esl was actually active
2015-10-23 15:57
Hungary adzeii 
sorry, then your nick here was missleading. mark that comment about that irrelevant
2015-10-23 16:11
Germany mogh 
mmo = eve online fps= quake/ cs i'd say strategy: starcraft 2
2015-10-21 21:41
quake series. just watch the analysis video from rapha vs cooller on the IEM grand finals. all the aspects that come in to play at such high speed combined with item timings is insane!
2015-10-21 21:41
super mario bros 2
2015-10-21 21:45
When it comes to FPS, I'd say Quake.
2015-10-21 21:45
quake is all about timings and luck
2015-10-21 22:12
So Counter-Strike is all about luck then, I see.
2015-10-21 22:15
Hungary adzeii 
ROFL :D have fun hitting 40+ shaft :D:D if quake is all luck then CS is what? biggest random gambling broken netcode garbage? :D sadly it is :(
2015-10-22 23:19
Lego boy, stfu.
2015-10-23 16:49
starcraft broodwar by far...
2015-10-21 21:47
2015-10-21 22:16
I almost cried laughing at the portuguese retard who actually said a fucking moba had the highest skill-ceiling, holy shit this new generation is completely retarded. Ontopic: Rly? Quake.
2015-10-21 21:47
+1 what about SC?
2015-10-21 23:58
I would say dota2 I think
2015-10-21 21:48
warcraft 3, starcraft 2, ut 2004, starcraft broodwar
2015-10-21 22:04
Good luck processing even half the information a lol pro player processes. Constantly processing enemy movement, predicting enemy tactics, predicting enemy ward placement, while focusing on farming, timers for drake, baron, wards & minion waves and inhibitors, remembering the cooldown of every single ability in the game while having a rough measurement after an enemy used it to know when to counter attack and when the enemy is defenseless, not only that but the calling and action is a lot faster in LoL than it is in cs go, if you watch a LoL POV you'll see what I mean. And unlike in CS GO the IGL in LoL doesn't make(LoL isn't the type of game that allows it) set strategies which pretty much removes a lot of mental effort / information processing since it's pretty much just following the strategy, aim and adapt. In LoL you have a basic strat before the game and you have to handle yourself on your own for 10-15+ minutes while processing nearly as much information as the IGL since he's just there to decide when to teamfight most of the time.
2015-10-21 22:10
its quake its not lol/dota. starcraft is not that kind of skill what many would think of and quake is more skilledbased. BUT over all of the games the most skilled game is COD... im out
2015-10-21 22:15
I'm just saying that to those who still think CS is harder than LoL/Dota, never played quake so can't comment but from what I know SC is probably the highest skill cap game ever, way more than LOL/DOTA/CS
2015-10-21 22:17
CS skill vs. Moba skill are just fundamentally different. I'll quote myself from above: CS mechanics are more like hitting a baseball, while moba mechanics are more like fighting games (sequence of button presses based on a logically correct situation to press them), that's all. They both have pretty limitless skill ceilings, but just require different skill sets.
2015-10-21 22:27
You definitely find the most "mechanically talented" individuals in Starcraft. CS, Dota, LoL and all the other games come far behind.
2015-10-21 22:09
lol you can't compare mechanics in SC to CS. See my above quote. They both require the player to be skilled in very different things. CS requires hand-eye coordination mainly, while SC requires intuitive and rapid button-pressing ability mainly.
2015-10-21 22:30
SC requires a much broader amount of skills than CS in general. The hand-eye coordination is just as present in SC, just doesn't look as flashy due to the fact that there are 10 other things going on at the same time and that you have to play at a much higher sensitivity on average.
2015-10-21 22:47
I realize you're talking about microing in SC. Yes that requires a lot of hand-eye coordination. But again, that's sort of a "next-level" skill that separates the best of the best from each other. Sort of like in CS the "next-level" skill would be awareness/knowledge/reading the opponent/tactics/strategy/teamwork, while the "base skill" would be the hand-eye coordination of aiming. In SC, the "base skill" is the fluid and robotic button-pressing I'm talking about - over 90% of SC games can be determined by who's more robotic and fluid at macroing. So in my last post I'm simply comparing the "base skills" of each game to each other.
2015-10-21 22:53
lol its not only the mechanic aspect awareness/knowledge/reading and opponent/tactics/strategy thats also way more present in sc if you have played sc bw and sc2 (wich is like the easy version of bw) you will know this and thats why its not fun to play :D
2015-10-21 23:07
yes I know well that SC requires tons of strategy, awareness, reading an opponent and their build, etc. etc., I grew up on SC broodwar and 1.6 (1.5 and earlier actually). The bottom line is - great SC Broodwar players I grew up with were often complete trash at 1.6, and vice versa, because the skills were so different. Much of 1.6 was about mastering a few simple techniques which have limitless skill ceilings (and which are more "sport"-like), while much of SC was about being fast, skillful and knowledgeable at a bunch of different things at once.
2015-10-21 23:14
ofc they are completely different but still sc is going take the number 1 spot because the whole level and the whole structure of progaming in sc is so much different thats why the foreigners couldnt really challenge koreans strict training shedule, work ethic, playing 10+ hours a day, grinding games thats nowhere near the dedication of pro players in cs if thats good or bad is another topic, but sc < anything in terms of what it takes to be on the top level
2015-10-21 23:43
Yes that's why I'm hoping Koreans play CS as seriously one day as they do other games. Maybe we'll really see how "next level" the skill ceiling can get. To the point of the argument though, it's not very relevant to say that "because x worked harder at a game, the skill ceiling of that game is higher".
2015-10-21 23:47
if cs gets f2p one day we might see it :D still sc > cs, because the skill ceiling inst unlimited, i mean it cant be reached by humans thats for sure but if we actually could, there is SO MUCH stuff you can improve in sc even if youre flash, its just way more complex dosnt matter but still :D
2015-10-22 00:08
Competetive rts games like sc without any doubt
2015-10-21 22:10
Either chess or solitaire, both are challenging when your opponent is good.
2015-10-21 22:10
starcraft broodwar. nothing else is even close.
2015-10-21 22:10
2015-10-21 22:17
2015-10-21 23:08
2015-10-21 22:13
2015-10-21 22:14
2015-10-21 22:22
Starcraft II
2015-10-21 22:24
nope, broodwar.
2015-10-21 23:08
Starcraft Brood War, The End.
2015-10-21 22:29
1.6 without a doubt
2015-10-21 22:30
s1mple | 
Bangladesh balti 
Starcraft and Quake
2015-10-21 22:31
Street Fighter , Quake, Starcraft Brood War, Darkstalker
2015-10-21 22:41
Call of Duty
2015-10-21 22:42
Pakistan Caked_u9 
cod4 promod
2015-10-21 22:48
Quake is harder than cs
2015-10-21 22:49
2015-10-21 22:53
Competetive WoW arena, or quake, to give two different style games
2015-10-21 22:54
This is a tough question. What's the hardest game mechanically? I would say... quake, brood war, tribes, warsow, street fighter What's the hardest game competitively? Whichever game has the most players. Being the best requires you to be better than all the players playing it. And if there are a ton of players playing it full time it naturally becomes more and more difficult to beat the bigger talent pool.
2015-10-21 22:57
France zall 
+1 bro! i agree with you hardest style game (skill cap meta mind game mecha..) are: RTS, Versus Fighting and then Fast FPS.
2015-10-21 23:04
2015-10-21 23:25
osu is hard as fuck
2015-10-21 23:44
try out starcraft against koreans kappa
2015-10-21 23:46
France blackhawkiva 
they are a difference only betwin top koreans and top eu but if u played on kr server on master it's almost the same lvl dat be master on a eu server
2015-10-23 13:47
Romania rockNoob 
2015-10-21 23:48
2015-10-21 23:49
lol ^^
2015-10-22 10:39
Germany -RazzoR- 
Speedrunning rpgs
2015-10-21 23:49
Harry potter online or Hello kitty online
2015-10-21 23:51
CS, COD, Dota, LoL, Starcraft. o/
2015-10-21 23:53
I don't understand when people say it's a MOBA and then the reason is that they need to know a lot of things. If you play the game, and enjoy the game, and want to get better at the game (and play fairly frequently) you will learn all of this as it is relevant information to you. Cooldowns? Oh no! Abilities? Please, who plays a MOBA for any significant amount of time and can't remember this easily? It just seems to me like MOBAs are a lot more about knowing things than doing things, although map awareness on the part of the individual is crucial. SteelHard needs to understand (as has already been said in this thread) that "skill" in each game - CS and Dota/LoL - is fundamentally different and thus defies direct comparison.
2015-10-21 23:57
azk he is the north american player but the titan he is the french stars
2015-10-22 05:12
SteelHard is a typical retard you find everywhere who tryhards on justifying his precious games.
2015-10-22 10:46
doom on nightmare
2015-10-21 23:59
Its funny how some people think LoL and Dota2 is the same thing, there's soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much more you need to know in dota. The best dota2 players could easily become top players in LoL, LoL pro's could never ever dream of becoming dota2 pros
2015-10-22 00:32
Fighting games like Street Fighter.
2015-10-22 00:33
Super smash brothers melee
2015-10-22 00:37
2015-10-22 05:30
Canada smoo 
cs go is the has the highest skill ceiling out of any game ever.
2015-10-22 05:44
wtf? cs go is the has the
2015-10-22 08:56
2015-10-23 17:22
chess obviously
2015-10-22 05:51
2015-10-22 06:04
true, but i guess he is talking about pc games ;)
2015-10-22 10:40
rocket league
2015-10-22 05:55
CS 1.6, dota, StarCraft: Brood War, Quake 2/3.
2015-10-22 05:56
Ukraine SuperMetal 
Individual skill - StarCraft, teamplay - Dota 2, CS:GO is good at both but not the best
2015-10-22 06:01
Didn't read all the replies but I would say chess is damn tricky.
2015-10-22 06:03
2015-10-22 06:09
nothing special ... every decent chessplayer can play at this speed, just not as good ^^
2015-10-22 10:05
Dota in general require an immense ammount of both gameknowledge and mechanics to compete at the highest level. Counter Strike is more psychological, teams skill differs from day to day depending on whos on fire which is why we see all the mixed results in the pro scene.
2015-10-22 06:15
freecell #11982
2015-10-22 09:28
lol@guys who are saying "sc2" its a dumbed down version of broodwar its the same as cs:go and 1.6
2015-10-22 09:48
Dota 2, starcraft 2.
2015-10-22 09:48
battletoads for snes
2015-10-22 10:09
2015-10-22 10:17
chrisJ | 
United Kingdom dv-_- 
starcraft DotA2 quake/unreal tournament cs 1.6 LoL
2015-10-22 10:18
fps was always easier than mobas :> its not even close
2015-10-22 10:21
2015-10-22 10:23
Poland Kamfeth 
Super Meat Boy
2015-10-22 10:43
If CS so easy to master, why do I meet players with 3000 hours who suck balls? checkmate
2015-10-22 10:45
Poland Kamfeth 
Because CS:GO is multiplayer game that requires a TEAM to be the best player. You can't win all alone, also you can't master this game in 100%. Like football, basketball etc. You are learning every single day. Check Super Mario Bros 2 Japanese version (aka The Lost Leveles) speedrun and watch how these guys MASTERED this game.
2015-10-22 10:49
Hungary adzeii 
because CS is random and cant be properly mastered thats why you see random pug heros take down pros in MM pretty often
2015-10-22 23:23 dats damn skilled game.
2015-10-22 10:50
I don't know about you guys but the funniest thing in this thread is there's this pathetic retard "SteelHard" guy who claims reaching GE in 1 yr is such a big accomplishment. It seems like he believes all the real pros and high tier players in ESEAs, leagues, etc. are still playing in MM. He seems to think his skills are on par with these players. I would love to see his ESEA profile, team and the league, but I doubt Mr. GE here even has enough skills to climb anywhere worthwhile, much less "mastered" CSGO. What a fucking joke LMAO
2015-10-22 11:02
lol guys, games that required most skill and the highest skill ceiling are competitive FPS ( CS, Quake, Unreal ) and Combat games ( Tekken, Street Fighter, Virtua Fighter ). U can be "master" in every game, tetris, mario, just everything. You can play on pro level but it doesnt mean that this requried highest skill. The game where range of abilities is highest and requires that ones ,which is hardest to master. From the beginning of sports that was your perceptual/ manual abilities ( like reflex, strenght, move ). This skill is hardest in competitive FPS and combat games.
2015-10-22 11:08
2015-10-22 11:28
The most skill... Angry Bird.
2015-10-22 13:31
cod !
2015-10-22 13:39
Chess/Dota2/WOW(not this expansion)/CSGO/
2015-10-22 23:18
Hungary adzeii 
FPS: 1. Quake 3 (+cpma) / Reflex 2. RTCW / ET . . . 15. Counter-Strike
2015-10-22 23:22
you dont know what "hard" is until you try to beat a korean at starcraft
2015-10-23 00:03
2015-10-23 00:05
Depends on what you mean by skill. There's different types of skill. There's in game knowledge skill, raw mechanical skill, game sense skill. Dota is a good example of a game that relies heavily on game knowledge skill. While brood war on the other hand is a game that relies heavily on mechanical skill. Fighting games like street fighter on the other hand are all about game sense (At least that's how I understand it as an outsider that hasn't really followed the competitive scene.).
2015-10-23 01:07
ceh9 | 
World mukas17 
2015-10-23 08:49
2015-10-23 13:19
Quake duel. Movement skills that you need to learn: circlejumping, strafejumping, wallclipping, stairjumping, rocketjumping, telejumping, different dodging patterns, plasmaclimbing + some of those backwards. Weapon mechanics you need to learn: tracking while dodging, prediction (crosshair placement different for every weapon), efficient spam, flickshooting, zoomshots, strafeshots. Intelligence you need to learn: mapknowledge, itemtiming (by clock) and itemcycle, map control (limiting enemies options on weapons and positions), item control (stacking armor and health), positioning (have the advantage in an engagement and an escape route), weapon choice, setting traps (predicting enemies movements around the map), awareness of opponents stack, weapons, positioning and their information on itemtimings and using that information to know what he is going to do next. I'm sure I missed tons of stuff. There's no esports that comes even close to the depth of high level quake duel imo.
2015-10-23 14:01
Hungary adzeii 
Agreed. Quake masterrace.
2015-10-23 15:45
Unreal Tournament
2015-10-23 15:19
It rather depends on the person than the game to be honest. There are plenty of people that have played thousands of hours of CS and still suck balls at the game, and there are plenty of people that played much less and are really good at the game. Same goes for most games. If we're talking about how easy or hard it is to learn playing a game though, then I'd say that it's probably harder to learn games such as DotA, LoL, WoW and so on. That doesn't mean that they require more skill. If you enjoy a game and play it frequently you're going to get good at it no matter how long it takes. There is just one game that I can think of right now that is FUCKING RANDOM AS SHIT, and that my friends is FIFA. DO NOT BUY THAT GAME UNLESS YOU WANT TO GET CANCER.
2015-10-23 15:57
Anyone here played Bloodline Champions? 100% skillbased :D Good times some years ago
2015-10-23 16:02
Starcraft 2
2015-10-23 16:05
2015-10-23 17:23
United Kingdom tejas_moksha 
Have any of you MOBA nerds even tried quake? Its 10000x skill of csgo, Id like to think I have decent aim, but on quake duel it means nothing. Theres so much depth to play with on quake , So yeah Id say the most skilled game to play is quake, ps. chess is eZ :D
2015-10-23 21:09
Played cs my whole life. Can say for sure moba's are much harder to master. Now focussing on Smite (moba were pretty much every skill is a skillshot) and it's much harder compared to CS:GO or any fps-shooter. You have 70 gods in the game (they keep adding new gods aswell) with each a passive and 4 skills to master. Teamfights (5v5) means there are numerous skills being used by different people wich makes it much harder than just shooting people.
2015-10-23 21:12
Really there is no such thing as the higher skill ceiling in single game, every individual has their own games in which they are better or said in another way games that is better fitted them, so its impossible to base it on peoples own experiences. It is personality, physical traits, hearing, seeing, reactions, coordination, intelligence, types of mentality and a lot of other traits, that defines individuals in games, but these traits are used in all games, but the point is that some games favour special traits so the skill ceiling in one game, is not like the same skill ceiling in another, because they don't apply the same set of traits. And then we haven't even starting disclosing different roles in different games which in turn have different uses of skill and how do we then define which is harder?... impossible, but it is all down to personality and what is the personal preference. Eg. a lot of people in here is saying Quake. Yes that might be the case if we only look at individual skill, but Quake doesn't need traits like teamplay and a team play mentality, so here the skill ceiling would be the lowest compared to both LoL, Dota and CS. But of course some games has a larger player base which makes the game harder in itself, because the competition will be harder, but that has nothing to do with the actual game.
2015-10-23 22:07
Chess - you can basically calculate the winner of a game to about a 70-80% accuracy just based on their FIDE ELO rating.
2015-10-24 19:49
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