[POD]Cast #24 on shox departure

In the twenty-fourth installment of the [POD]Cast, the guys discuss Richard "shox" Papillon departure from Titan and what it could mean for the team moving forward.

This latest episode features the usual suspects Patrik "cArn" Sättermon and Duncan "Thorin" Shields, joined by Joona "natu" Leppänen, current member of ENCE.

After some intriguing debate about some of the all time greats in the Swedish and Finnish scene, the trio focuses on the big news from Monday, Richard "shox" Papillon leaving Titan with Kenny "kennyS" Schrub taking his place.

If you are in a hurry and only interested in the groups' thoughts about the Titan situation, below you will find a timestamp for when the topic is discussed:

1:01:50 shox no longer a member of Titan, with the latter picking up kennyS and thoughts on how these moves may affect the team.

Click play below to listen to the entire podcast with Patrik "cArn" Sättermon, Duncan "Thorin" Shields and Joona "natu" Leppänen hitting on many different points including those mentioned above.

[POD]Cast is currently available on iTunes or through its own RSS feed. You can download the MP3 file on fnatic's website, and stay up-to-date through its Facebook page.

Kinda late don't u think? Edit: 1970-01-01 03:00 rofl Edit2: beware, Thoorin WILL flame carn :D
2014-05-01 01:51
2 replies
haha, yes it is a retro podcast :P
2014-05-01 01:55
1 reply
don't remember when I last saw murican work for HLTV :D
2014-05-01 02:00
Oh...
2014-05-01 01:51
lol
2014-05-01 01:52
Missing lurrpis, natu was a great addition tough wouldnt mind seeing him again. Someone who actively plays the game could give great insight.
2014-05-01 01:56
no podcast about EMS ONE ?
2014-05-01 02:12
finally a podcast, ty guys
2014-05-01 02:16
Great coverage and thooorin keep them podcasts rocking
2014-05-01 02:18
#12
 | 
Greece her-1g
where's lurp?
2014-05-01 02:49
1.6 = Golden Five! NEO > f0rest Poland > WORLD
2014-05-01 03:00
1 reply
So a game equals a team playing that game and a country is better than the planet that includes this country?
2014-05-01 13:04
No talk of Thorin's rude remarks or getting banned from one of the biggest events in CS history... Not even an apology. Real classy guy.
2014-05-01 03:25
3 replies
Yea I dont need the apology but was hoping they would at least address what happened. Anyway was entertaining as usual. Most people will know Neutron from the FragOrDie movie
2014-05-01 10:44
Too arrogant for an apology.
2014-05-01 10:45
That's what makes him awesome and it actually describes british people perfectly :D
2014-05-01 12:36
Where is lurpriss?
2014-05-01 03:38
Really, really enjoyable episode. Didn't realize how much I missed these. 1. natu saying CS is the most competitive right now. From looking at the scene, one should think so. But if you actually look at the games and how professionals behave, you can't really justify such a statement. POV demos, stratbooks, studying single players' behaviour on specific maps, studying how someone approaches an area where you are defending, spending hours in offline servers trying to get a competitive edge by finding new things and tricks in the game, being innovative, mastering the game mechanically - these are all things that were prevalent in 1.6 but seem hardly relevant in GO. Most professionals use aim DM or scrims these days because it is more comfortable. I mean, how come one player (GTR) can be so far ahead in terms of spray control when the spray patterns are static? That's proof of how much thought and work players today really put into the game and how it functions itself. I myself due to a bad internet connection spend a majority of the little time I play on offline servers trying to find out new stuff. And I do. I have found multiple positions on the standard maps that are simply game-breaking. And every time I look at the games of the next big event, hoping for teams to pull out sick wallbangs, unique boosts or positions or tricks, I am disappointed, witnessing how everybody simply relies on the most basic things (NiP, the best team, grinds out a win somehow everytime, and they are reknown for force-buying the fuck out of their ~$3k rounds - they can only do that because they "yolo" their opponents with czs, deagles and galils). I mean, sure, 1.6 took a while to see players considering it necessary to get a competitive edge by being better at things different than aim, but after 2 years now and NiP still being on top with solely relying on being better at the basic skill levels? Teamplay and the mental aspect of the game are more pronounced then they have been in 1.6 towards the end of that scene, but that is only proof that the game is mechanically not nearly as evolved/not possible to be mastered to nearly the same degree as 1.6 was. 2. Movement. I agree with natu that it was much more about precision in 1.6. In GO you do 2 things right and that does the trick. The sound system is also not as efficient to punish you for making stupid moves. In 1.6, on the classic maps there are 5-8 "tricks" for each that you simply had to be able to do consistently to even be able to think about playing competitively. The hardest thing that is "required" of you to be able to do in GO is still not as hard as the standard stuff you had to do in 1.6. What I will say is that I don't consider GO less competitively viable because of this. Again, where a game lacks the opportunity for players to be mechanically superior, they will have to be mentally superior. I. e. it's not so much about being able to maneuver your player model perfectly given the map as it is about maneuvering it according to your opponent. What I mean by that is that the movement choices you make while you are dueling someone are crucial, whereas in 1.6 you used movement to set yourself up to have an advanatage before you even faced someone. 3. The AWP. Thorin hit the nail on the head with his description of what is wrong with this gun in CS:GO. Even the most consistently "stunning" wielders of it in GO crumble in comparison to what people in 1.6 could do with it consistently. A lot of the "sick" stuff in GO that people pull off with it us purely random. They are not in control of what happens, they flick it at someone close by and hope it hits. This as Thorin pointed out is obviously not something you want in a competitive game. You want every aspect of the game to be potentially controlable to a degree where you can practice to be good at something consistently and understand it. The AWP right now is impossible to be "understood" and be consistently good with. GuardiaN, kennyS, KQLY, markeloff, Delpan, Nico, JW, SmithZz, pasha ... - it doesn't matter who you give this gun to, each and every single one of them feels like an "explosive" AWPer that has shining moments. But that's simply because the weapon can't be properly instrumentalized in GO. It is a streaky random gun. Nobody can use it to the effect that markeloff did in 1.6. He "worked" with that gun and made it work every time. Just looking at the fact that a double-zoomed AWP has enough inaccuracy for you to miss a player's head you have your crosshair perfectly sitting on from pit to A plat should give anyone an idea of how unacceptable this gun is designed in GO. VALVe simply looked at how "overpowered" people always thought the AWP was in CS, but that was not the gun itself, it was the fact that it could be mastered to be able to do that stuff with it. Quickscoping and noscoping have to be way more controllable. There shouldn't be the "load-up" time for scoping in. There shouldn't be so much inaccuracy for noscopes. And way more accuracy for being scoped in.
2014-05-01 03:43
11 replies
Quality post!!
2014-05-01 03:51
#21
 | 
India h8or
Well said. :) Great post!!!
2014-05-01 04:33
that got me hard
2014-05-01 09:48
well said
2014-05-01 10:10
+1
2014-05-01 12:39
well said +1
2014-05-01 13:03
+1 I agree with everything you said, but wouldn't you agree that it might just be a matter of time until GO reaches the same stage competitively as you describe 1,6 in your point #1 in terms of teams preparing and so forth? It is still a relatively new game compared to 1,6 considering how many years that was played competitively. It is something that evolves as the competition between teams become more intense. I mean, the first year of cs go was dominated by ONE team. It is way different now and everything points towards it will become even more so further on. It is not like new spots, wallbang spots and more complex strats in generel aren't being developed for every LAN already.
2014-05-01 14:12
1 reply
That's true, although only to a degree where after 2 years of teams clashing, and now with $100k on the line, I simply can't understand why the game is not evolving more rapdily. Let's not forget that the majority of the players currently competing have a rich background in older CS titles, meaning they already made it through a competitive learning curve in a similar game. Yes, there are parallels to 1.6 where that game's competitive origins were dominated by aimers and clutch-players as well. But the only reasons for GO to not be evolving in the same directions that 1.6 quickly did are that either the game itself is not as suited for being better mechanically than other players, not providing players with enough opportunity to get creative or players simply not valueing that aspect of the game. Which probably go hand-in-hand. The rest of this post is rambling about the professional scene that you don't really have to read. The tl;dr version would be something along the lines of: Be more fucking creative already. GO definitely isn't as allowing for someone to do innovative stuff on the maps or to be rewarded by practicing the mechanics of it. But again, there is definitely more stuff than what I'm currently seeing from players possible. There are some areas that are subject to innovation in GO right now. The biggest being grenade placement. Players do spend time on offline servers trying to find new smkes or flashes. The use of the fire grenades has evolved quite a bit. One-way smokes are a competitive asset now. Professionals obviously use one-way smokes and fire grenades regularly now. So, these innovations must be worthwhile. What I'm wondering then is how come people aren't looking for more stuff that could be as worthwhile to get a competitive edge and grab that $100k? It starts with mastering the spray pattern, really studying the movement (if you look at professional players today, they almost always crouch in a duel. I bet not a single one of them can tell you one good reason as to why they do it. It's purely intuitive, they don't go into an offline server, enable hitboxes and study what happens to the server-sided hitbox when someone crouches. They didn't find out that crouching is not lag-compensated for. They simply do it by habit, that is not what I'd call a competitive approach), looking for new wallbangs (just one example to proof that nobody does this: on inferno, one of the many worthwhile wallbangs I've found is from vietnam to mid. You can bang on headshot level for full damage from there), looking for new spots (just one example of many I've found: again on inferno, you can get yourself on top of the door in ruins leading to CT spawn. Using this position you can single-handedly ruin a retake), looking for possible tricks (example: if you jump against an upper barrier repetitively using the mousewheel, you can get rid of the stamina limitations for crouching), finding boost spots or just generally learning more about how the game functions. Smokes you can "look around" using your outer FOV to expose areas behind it you are not visible from. Why don't boost people behind smokes to look over them? So many times I've seen teams simply stalling behind a smoke and trying to get some lucky shots through. Just get on top of somebody's head and look over it, that's possible on more spots than just mid on dust2 where you can see it sometimes being done by teams. GeT_RiGhT instead of changing to his pistol when dueling and running out of ammo sometimes throws his rifle away. Has anybody in the scene taken the 5 minutes it takes to find out whether that allows you to shoot your pistol faster? Doubt it. There is a way of achieving standard accuracy while on a ladder. You can prevent fall damage completely. I can't see how one wouldn't profit from incorporating some of these things competitively. I'm not even talking about changing the whole gamestyle, or saying that these things are game-breaking, just little things you can do here and there to gain that little edge over an opponent. An example in GO would be something I first saw some german players do. On dust2, coming from CT-spawn, when you want to peek an opponent on A plat, most players simply jump. This exposes your head for more than enough time for a good player to take it off. But if you stand against the building on the other side, there's an upper barrier that you can jump against to effectively collect information about the opponent's position on A plat without running the risk of being taken down, because you are visible for only a fraction of the time you otherwise are. You can use that same barrier to peek long without being able to be reacted to. When you enter B, or dark on dust2, you can use those arched things on the entrances to fly out faster than normal, while still hitting the ground to be accurate while shooting almost immediately. On nuke, you can stand on top of squeaky and open it from there. Then you can strafe your way from there into hut window. You can catch an opponent off guard, because if he hears squeaky, he will not expect you to be hut like a second later. I would love to see this kind of stuff being attempted in professional GO. These and more are just small things, it's not like they will change the game significantly, but they are useful enough to try and incorporate them to simply be that tiny bit better. Again, I'm not saying GO isn't as competitively viable as 1.6; I don't want to start one of those debates. GO puts much more emphasis on the mental skill aspects. It has to. Every game that isn't won by being mechanically superior has to be won by being mentally superior. And since we see a handful of teams winning more or less consistently, with NiP leading the way, it is certain that GO is as much of a skill-centered game not to produce random outcomes all the time. It's just that my nerd-heart bloomed at the sight of people doing neat stuff in 1.6. Boosting up one guy on mid on dust2 where you have to strafe-jump using a teammate's head. Players practically gliding through train perfectly, utilizing the ladders to gain speed, prevent fall damage and minimize sound queues. The stupid little surf on the pipes lower nuke, vent diving correctly, dodging top of banana by 180° strafe-jumping onto the ladder at T ramp inferno and from there jumping above banana entrance without being visible and doging pre-nades. Looking at the ground to see through smokes. The research that went in to setting up the game properly and how the netcode works. The different shooting techniques. There was just tons of stuff that fascinated me about the professional scene when I was younger, and even as I got older and knowledgeable about the game to a similar degree, it still felt incredibly rich, as if there were always secrets left to how pros can be so good. I was of course younger and more easily mystified, but GO isn't nearly as deep, nor does anyone really put the work in to learn how the game functions in terms of physics, netcode, game rules. This to me feels like a much more casual approach. That doesn't mean it isn't suited for competition, but it simply isn't as "cool" to me not seeing players do new things or develop unique playstyles. 1.6 was more of an instrument that could be played every which way, expressing unlimited possibilities. GO happens in the mind much more. To stay with this analogy, a choirmaster might be as good or better a musician that the violinist he is instructing, but who would you rather listen to?
2014-05-01 17:43
rare to see someone with a constructed opinion on hltv, gj
2014-05-01 17:26
Huge wall of text. :O
2014-05-01 23:08
Spot ON!!
2014-05-02 08:40
#18
 | 
Denmark cabronnn
no Shox , no gain!
2014-05-01 03:53
#19
 | 
Germany fjdeN
first podcast 4 me nice background informations :)
2014-05-01 04:25
why the hell sits thorin with a jacket at home :D ?
2014-05-01 04:25
1 reply
Normal thing in UK
2014-05-01 23:09
good podcast
2014-05-01 04:44
Yeah sure sit in a jacket indoors!
2014-05-01 08:24
great podcast. i always look forward to these.
2014-05-01 08:44
2014-05-01 09:19
thoorin lives on a north pole?
2014-05-01 09:28
no shox,no win
2014-05-01 10:06
natu seems like a nice guy.
2014-05-01 10:16
3 replies
joelz will hunt you now
2014-05-01 12:51
2 replies
+1
2014-05-01 13:13
no he's antixbiceps
2014-05-01 17:30
Thooorin 4 the Volvo PresidenT
2014-05-01 12:55
#48
 | 
Lithuania Slim Flug
So much hate on thorin and in my opinion great guy. I think so much people dont like him because he tells you the truth straight in your eyes ans he doesn't give a single fuck what other people think about that.
2014-05-01 13:25
5 replies
+1
2014-05-01 14:14
you don't have to be a rude dickhead to tell someone the truth though. thorin is a rude dickhead which is why people don't like him. he scoffs at other peoples opinions and outright tells them they're wrong and stupid for having a different opinion when it's just an opinion. he's the sort of person that would tell his friend's 3 year old kid that he's a spastic because he coloured a cat green and the grass blue in a colouring book and then when the kid grows a few years older and thinks that beyblades is really good and pokemon is shit punches him in the nose for being a flid.
2014-05-01 17:18
3 replies
That's somewhat accurate
2014-05-01 19:12
@pugh hahahahahah thats very true +1
2014-05-02 09:29
hahaha 10/10 that kid sounds pretty spastic tho
2014-05-02 10:00
thoorin you look so cool in that parka! Dont you have heating in England?! The superior in every aspect, most developed country in the world?!
2014-05-01 13:38
lol who cares about shox onliner.
2014-05-01 14:39
#58
 | 
Latvia Ke]R[4u
Good episode, solid Carn trolling 8/10
2014-05-01 15:53
Hope that Natu will join the POD soon again, really nice guy.
2014-05-01 16:41
1 reply
+1
2014-05-01 18:13
great discussions and good insight into cs' history as always. on the other hand it's weird how little carn and thorin know about the actual CS:GO players. when thorin suggested TITAN to pick up a dedicated rifler and named KQLY (a dedicated AWPer), it made me facepalm. they seem to know 10 times more about people that played 8 years ago, than about the CS:GO scene. One Request: Please bring these podcasts into the present, with certain analogies into the past to put the present into perspective.
2014-05-01 19:16
2 replies
You clearly didn't even watch the whole podcast and it seems like you don't know the idea of these podcasts...
2014-05-01 23:24
1 reply
aha? well I watched almost everything, only skipped the part about norwegian 1.6 players. It's just a fact that neither carn nor thorin watch a lot of cs:go. Yes, thorin has analysed DH Winter very well and generally followed the nip - VG rivalry. other than that they just have a limited knowledge about the current scene. thats not even debatable.
2014-05-03 13:08
thoorin untouchable on here, 90% of comments get deleted! wtf hltv!?!
2014-05-01 20:18
Lurppis probably doesn't want to work with thorin
2014-05-01 23:27
I can't download any file from fnatic.com please fix it
2014-05-02 00:30
Thing about Thoorin is, he thinks he is THE shit and you can blatantly tell that when you hear him talk. He has so much knowledge about the history of CS and he explains everything very rationally and does call people out on things he doesn't agree on. He also tackles the most interesting and controversial topics excellently. He doesn't give the 'safe' answer or the cookie cutter kind of answer, he gives a more in-depth reply and explains his reasoning pretty well in my opinion. Usually pretty objective too.
2014-05-02 02:10
They really don't talk about current events in CS:GO enough.
2014-05-02 02:44
Thori. is a sensationalist piece of crap, disguising his unlikeability and mediocre knowledge about one of the competitive games he tries to write about by swearing and offensive bold statements. It is sad he is regarded a "joirnalist" - talking about the finnish player that had a girl pregnant as not serious attitude towards life and pixels ?!?!?!? Poor, pathetic, lonely sap.
2014-05-02 08:31
That's true, although only to a degree where after 2 years of teams clashing, and now with $100k on the line, I simply can't understand why the game is not evolving more rapdily. Let's not forget that the majority of the players currently competing have a rich background in older CS titles, meaning they already made it through a competitive learning curve in a similar game. Yes, there are parallels to 1.6 where that game's competitive origins were dominated by aimers and clutch-players as well. But the only reasons for GO to not be evolving in the same directions that 1.6 quickly did are that either the game itself is not as suited for being better mechanically than other players, not providing players with enough opportunity to get creative or players simply not valueing that aspect of the game. Which probably go hand-in-hand. The rest of this post is rambling about the professional scene that you don't really have to read. The tl;dr version would be something along the lines of: Be more fucking creative already. GO definitely isn't as allowing for someone to do innovative stuff on the maps or to be rewarded by practicing the mechanics of it. But again, there is definitely more stuff than what I'm currently seeing from players possible. There are some areas that are subject to innovation in GO right now. The biggest being grenade placement. Players do spend time on offline servers trying to find new smkes or flashes. The use of the fire grenades has evolved quite a bit. One-way smokes are a competitive asset now. Professionals obviously use one-way smokes and fire grenades regularly now. So, these innovations must be worthwhile. What I'm wondering then is how come people aren't looking for more stuff that could be as worthwhile to get a competitive edge and grab that $100k? It starts with mastering the spray pattern, really studying the movement (if you look at professional players today, they almost always crouch in a duel. I bet not a single one of them can tell you one good reason as to why they do it. It's purely intuitive, they don't go into an offline server, enable hitboxes and study what happens to the server-sided hitbox when someone crouches. They didn't find out that crouching is not lag-compensated for. They simply do it by habit, that is not what I'd call a competitive approach), looking for new wallbangs (just one example to proof that nobody does this: on inferno, one of the many worthwhile wallbangs I've found is from vietnam to mid. You can bang on headshot level for full damage from there), looking for new spots (just one example of many I've found: again on inferno, you can get yourself on top of the door in ruins leading to CT spawn. Using this position you can single-handedly ruin a retake), looking for possible tricks (example: if you jump against an upper barrier repetitively using the mousewheel, you can get rid of the stamina limitations for crouching), finding boost spots or just generally learning more about how the game functions. Smokes you can "look around" using your outer FOV to expose areas behind it you are not visible from. Why don't boost people behind smokes to look over them? So many times I've seen teams simply stalling behind a smoke and trying to get some lucky shots through. Just get on top of somebody's head and look over it, that's possible on more spots than just mid on dust2 where you can see it sometimes being done by teams. GeT_RiGhT instead of changing to his pistol when dueling and running out of ammo sometimes throws his rifle away. Has anybody in the scene taken the 5 minutes it takes to find out whether that allows you to shoot your pistol faster? Doubt it. There is a way of achieving standard accuracy while on a ladder. You can prevent fall damage completely. I can't see how one wouldn't profit from incorporating some of these things competitively. I'm not even talking about changing the whole gamestyle, or saying that these things are game-breaking, just little things you can do here and there to gain that little edge over an opponent. An example in GO would be something I first saw some german players do. On dust2, coming from CT-spawn, when you want to peek an opponent on A plat, most players simply jump. This exposes your head for more than enough time for a good player to take it off. But if you stand against the building on the other side, there's an upper barrier that you can jump against to effectively collect information about the opponent's position on A plat without running the risk of being taken down, because you are visible for only a fraction of the time you otherwise are. You can use that same barrier to peek long without being able to be reacted to. When you enter B, or dark on dust2, you can use those arched things on the entrances to fly out faster than normal, while still hitting the ground to be accurate while shooting almost immediately. On nuke, you can stand on top of squeaky and open it from there. Then you can strafe your way from there into hut window. You can catch an opponent off guard, because if he hears squeaky, he will not expect you to be hut like a second later. I would love to see this kind of stuff being attempted in professional GO. These and more are just small things, it's not like they will change the game significantly, but they are useful enough to try and incorporate them to simply be that tiny bit better. Again, I'm not saying GO isn't as competitively viable as 1.6; I don't want to start one of those debates. GO puts much more emphasis on the mental skill aspects. It has to. Every game that isn't won by being mechanically superior has to be won by being mentally superior. And since we see a handful of teams winning more or less consistently, with NiP leading the way, it is certain that GO is as much of a skill-centered game not to produce random outcomes all the time. It's just that my nerd-heart bloomed at the sight of people doing neat stuff in 1.6. Boosting up one guy on mid on dust2 where you have to strafe-jump using a teammate's head. Players practically gliding through train perfectly, utilizing the ladders to gain speed, prevent fall damage and minimize sound queues. The stupid little surf on the pipes lower nuke, vent diving correctly, dodging top of banana by 180° strafe-jumping onto the ladder at T ramp inferno and from there jumping above banana entrance without being visible and doging pre-nades. Looking at the ground to see through smokes. The research that went in to setting up the game properly and how the netcode works. The different shooting techniques. There was just tons of stuff that fascinated me about the professional scene when I was younger, and even as I got older and knowledgeable about the game to a similar degree, it still felt incredibly rich, as if there were always secrets left to how pros can be so good. I was of course younger and more easily mystified, but GO isn't nearly as deep, nor does anyone really put the work in to learn how the game functions in terms of physics, netcode, game rules. This to me feels like a much more casual approach. That doesn't mean it isn't suited for competition, but it simply isn't as "cool" to me not seeing players do new things or develop unique playstyles. 1.6 was more of an instrument that could be played every which way, expressing unlimited possibilities. GO happens in the mind much more. To stay with this analogy, a choirmaster might be as good or better a musician that the violinist he is instructing, but who would you rather listen to?That's true, although only to a degree where after 2 years of teams clashing, and now with $100k on the line, I simply can't understand why the game is not evolving more rapdily. Let's not forget that the majority of the players currently competing have a rich background in older CS titles, meaning they already made it through a competitive learning curve in a similar game. Yes, there are parallels to 1.6 where that game's competitive origins were dominated by aimers and clutch-players as well. But the only reasons for GO to not be evolving in the same directions that 1.6 quickly did are that either the game itself is not as suited for being better mechanically than other players, not providing players with enough opportunity to get creative or players simply not valueing that aspect of the game. Which probably go hand-in-hand. The rest of this post is rambling about the professional scene that you don't really have to read. The tl;dr version would be something along the lines of: Be more fucking creative already. GO definitely isn't as allowing for someone to do innovative stuff on the maps or to be rewarded by practicing the mechanics of it. But again, there is definitely more stuff than what I'm currently seeing from players possible. There are some areas that are subject to innovation in GO right now. The biggest being grenade placement. Players do spend time on offline servers trying to find new smkes or flashes. The use of the fire grenades has evolved quite a bit. One-way smokes are a competitive asset now. Professionals obviously use one-way smokes and fire grenades regularly now. So, these innovations must be worthwhile. What I'm wondering then is how come people aren't looking for more stuff that could be as worthwhile to get a competitive edge and grab that $100k? It starts with mastering the spray pattern, really studying the movement (if you look at professional players today, they almost always crouch in a duel. I bet not a single one of them can tell you one good reason as to why they do it. It's purely intuitive, they don't go into an offline server, enable hitboxes and study what happens to the server-sided hitbox when someone crouches. They didn't find out that crouching is not lag-compensated for. They simply do it by habit, that is not what I'd call a competitive approach), looking for new wallbangs (just one example to proof that nobody does this: on inferno, one of the many worthwhile wallbangs I've found is from vietnam to mid. You can bang on headshot level for full damage from there), looking for new spots (just one example of many I've found: again on inferno, you can get yourself on top of the door in ruins leading to CT spawn. Using this position you can single-handedly ruin a retake), looking for possible tricks (example: if you jump against an upper barrier repetitively using the mousewheel, you can get rid of the stamina limitations for crouching), finding boost spots or just generally learning more about how the game functions. Smokes you can "look around" using your outer FOV to expose areas behind it you are not visible from. Why don't boost people behind smokes to look over them? So many times I've seen teams simply stalling behind a smoke and trying to get some lucky shots through. Just get on top of somebody's head and look over it, that's possible on more spots than just mid on dust2 where you can see it sometimes being done by teams. GeT_RiGhT instead of changing to his pistol when dueling and running out of ammo sometimes throws his rifle away. Has anybody in the scene taken the 5 minutes it takes to find out whether that allows you to shoot your pistol faster? Doubt it. There is a way of achieving standard accuracy while on a ladder. You can prevent fall damage completely. I can't see how one wouldn't profit from incorporating some of these things competitively. I'm not even talking about changing the whole gamestyle, or saying that these things are game-breaking, just little things you can do here and there to gain that little edge over an opponent. An example in GO would be something I first saw some german players do. On dust2, coming from CT-spawn, when you want to peek an opponent on A plat, most players simply jump. This exposes your head for more than enough time for a good player to take it off. But if you stand against the building on the other side, there's an upper barrier that you can jump against to effectively collect information about the opponent's position on A plat without running the risk of being taken down, because you are visible for only a fraction of the time you otherwise are. You can use that same barrier to peek long without being able to be reacted to. When you enter B, or dark on dust2, you can use those arched things on the entrances to fly out faster than normal, while still hitting the ground to be accurate while shooting almost immediately. On nuke, you can stand on top of squeaky and open it from there. Then you can strafe your way from there into hut window. You can catch an opponent off guard, because if he hears squeaky, he will not expect you to be hut like a second later. I would love to see this kind of stuff being attempted in professional GO. These and more are just small things, it's not like they will change the game significantly, but they are useful enough to try and incorporate them to simply be that tiny bit better. Again, I'm not saying GO isn't as competitively viable as 1.6; I don't want to start one of those debates. GO puts much more emphasis on the mental skill aspects. It has to. Every game that isn't won by being mechanically superior has to be won by being mentally superior. And since we see a handful of teams winning more or less consistently, with NiP leading the way, it is certain that GO is as much of a skill-centered game not to produce random outcomes all the time. It's just that my nerd-heart bloomed at the sight of people doing neat stuff in 1.6. Boosting up one guy on mid on dust2 where you have to strafe-jump using a teammate's head. Players practically gliding through train perfectly, utilizing the ladders to gain speed, prevent fall damage and minimize sound queues. The stupid little surf on the pipes lower nuke, vent diving correctly, dodging top of banana by 180° strafe-jumping onto the ladder at T ramp inferno and from there jumping above banana entrance without being visible and doging pre-nades. Looking at the ground to see through smokes. The research that went in to setting up the game properly and how the netcode works. The different shooting techniques. There was just tons of stuff that fascinated me about the professional scene when I was younger, and even as I got older and knowledgeable about the game to a similar degree, it still felt incredibly rich, as if there were always secrets left to how pros can be so good. I was of course younger and more easily mystified, but GO isn't nearly as deep, nor does anyone really put the work in to learn how the game functions in terms of physics, netcode, game rules. This to me feels like a much more casual approach. That doesn't mean it isn't suited for competition, but it simply isn't as "cool" to me not seeing players do new things or develop unique playstyles. 1.6 was more of an instrument that could be played every which way, expressing unlimited possibilities. GO happens in the mind much more. To stay with this analogy, a choirmaster might be as good or better a musician that the violinist he is instructing, but who would you rather listen to?That's true, although only to a degree where after 2 years of teams clashing, and now with $100k on the line, I simply can't understand why the game is not evolving more rapdily. Let's not forget that the majority of the players currently competing have a rich background in older CS titles, meaning they already made it through a competitive learning curve in a similar game. Yes, there are parallels to 1.6 where that game's competitive origins were dominated by aimers and clutch-players as well. But the only reasons for GO to not be evolving in the same directions that 1.6 quickly did are that either the game itself is not as suited for being better mechanically than other players, not providing players with enough opportunity to get creative or players simply not valueing that aspect of the game. Which probably go hand-in-hand. The rest of this post is rambling about the professional scene that you don't really have to read. The tl;dr version would be something along the lines of: Be more fucking creative already. GO definitely isn't as allowing for someone to do innovative stuff on the maps or to be rewarded by practicing the mechanics of it. But again, there is definitely more stuff than what I'm currently seeing from players possible. There are some areas that are subject to innovation in GO right now. The biggest being grenade placement. Players do spend time on offline servers trying to find new smkes or flashes. The use of the fire grenades has evolved quite a bit. One-way smokes are a competitive asset now. Professionals obviously use one-way smokes and fire grenades regularly now. So, these innovations must be worthwhile. What I'm wondering then is how come people aren't looking for more stuff that could be as worthwhile to get a competitive edge and grab that $100k? It starts with mastering the spray pattern, really studying the movement (if you look at professional players today, they almost always crouch in a duel. I bet not a single one of them can tell you one good reason as to why they do it. It's purely intuitive, they don't go into an offline server, enable hitboxes and study what happens to the server-sided hitbox when someone crouches. They didn't find out that crouching is not lag-compensated for. They simply do it by habit, that is not what I'd call a competitive approach), looking for new wallbangs (just one example to proof that nobody does this: on inferno, one of the many worthwhile wallbangs I've found is from vietnam to mid. You can bang on headshot level for full damage from there), looking for new spots (just one example of many I've found: again on inferno, you can get yourself on top of the door in ruins leading to CT spawn. Using this position you can single-handedly ruin a retake), looking for possible tricks (example: if you jump against an upper barrier repetitively using the mousewheel, you can get rid of the stamina limitations for crouching), finding boost spots or just generally learning more about how the game functions. Smokes you can "look around" using your outer FOV to expose areas behind it you are not visible from. Why don't boost people behind smokes to look over them? So many times I've seen teams simply stalling behind a smoke and trying to get some lucky shots through. Just get on top of somebody's head and look over it, that's possible on more spots than just mid on dust2 where you can see it sometimes being done by teams. GeT_RiGhT instead of changing to his pistol when dueling and running out of ammo sometimes throws his rifle away. Has anybody in the scene taken the 5 minutes it takes to find out whether that allows you to shoot your pistol faster? Doubt it. There is a way of achieving standard accuracy while on a ladder. You can prevent fall damage completely. I can't see how one wouldn't profit from incorporating some of these things competitively. I'm not even talking about changing the whole gamestyle, or saying that these things are game-breaking, just little things you can do here and there to gain that little edge over an opponent. An example in GO would be something I first saw some german players do. On dust2, coming from CT-spawn, when you want to peek an opponent on A plat, most players simply jump. This exposes your head for more than enough time for a good player to take it off. But if you stand against the building on the other side, there's an upper barrier that you can jump against to effectively collect information about the opponent's position on A plat without running the risk of being taken down, because you are visible for only a fraction of the time you otherwise are. You can use that same barrier to peek long without being able to be reacted to. When you enter B, or dark on dust2, you can use those arched things on the entrances to fly out faster than normal, while still hitting the ground to be accurate while shooting almost immediately. On nuke, you can stand on top of squeaky and open it from there. Then you can strafe your way from there into hut window. You can catch an opponent off guard, because if he hears squeaky, he will not expect you to be hut like a second later. I would love to see this kind of stuff being attempted in professional GO. These and more are just small things, it's not like they will change the game significantly, but they are useful enough to try and incorporate them to simply be that tiny bit better. Again, I'm not saying GO isn't as competitively viable as 1.6; I don't want to start one of those debates. GO puts much more emphasis on the mental skill aspects. It has to. Every game that isn't won by being mechanically superior has to be won by being mentally superior. And since we see a handful of teams winning more or less consistently, with NiP leading the way, it is certain that GO is as much of a skill-centered game not to produce random outcomes all the time. It's just that my nerd-heart bloomed at the sight of people doing neat stuff in 1.6. Boosting up one guy on mid on dust2 where you have to strafe-jump using a teammate's head. Players practically gliding through train perfectly, utilizing the ladders to gain speed, prevent fall damage and minimize sound queues. The stupid little surf on the pipes lower nuke, vent diving correctly, dodging top of banana by 180° strafe-jumping onto the ladder at T ramp inferno and from there jumping above banana entrance without being visible and doging pre-nades. Looking at the ground to see through smokes. The research that went in to setting up the game properly and how the netcode works. The different shooting techniques. There was just tons of stuff that fascinated me about the professional scene when I was younger, and even as I got older and knowledgeable about the game to a similar degree, it still felt incredibly rich, as if there were always secrets left to how pros can be so good. I was of course younger and more easily mystified, but GO isn't nearly as deep, nor does anyone really put the work in to learn how the game functions in terms of physics, netcode, game rules. This to me feels like a much more casual approach. That doesn't mean it isn't suited for competition, but it simply isn't as "cool" to me not seeing players do new things or develop unique playstyles. 1.6 was more of an instrument that could be played every which way, expressing unlimited possibilities. GO happens in the mind much more. To stay with this analogy, a choirmaster might be as good or better a musician that the violinist he is instructing, but who would you rather listen to?That's true, although only to a degree where after 2 years of teams clashing, and now with $100k on the line, I simply can't understand why the game is not evolving more rapdily. Let's not forget that the majority of the players currently competing have a rich background in older CS titles, meaning they already made it through a competitive learning curve in a similar game. Yes, there are parallels to 1.6 where that game's competitive origins were dominated by aimers and clutch-players as well. But the only reasons for GO to not be evolving in the same directions that 1.6 quickly did are that either the game itself is not as suited for being better mechanically than other players, not providing players with enough opportunity to get creative or players simply not valueing that aspect of the game. Which probably go hand-in-hand. The rest of this post is rambling about the professional scene that you don't really have to read. The tl;dr version would be something along the lines of: Be more fucking creative already. GO definitely isn't as allowing for someone to do innovative stuff on the maps or to be rewarded by practicing the mechanics of it. But again, there is definitely more stuff than what I'm currently seeing from players possible. There are some areas that are subject to innovation in GO right now. The biggest being grenade placement. Players do spend time on offline servers trying to find new smkes or flashes. The use of the fire grenades has evolved quite a bit. One-way smokes are a competitive asset now. Professionals obviously use one-way smokes and fire grenades regularly now. So, these innovations must be worthwhile. What I'm wondering then is how come people aren't looking for more stuff that could be as worthwhile to get a competitive edge and grab that $100k? It starts with mastering the spray pattern, really studying the movement (if you look at professional players today, they almost always crouch in a duel. I bet not a single one of them can tell you one good reason as to why they do it. It's purely intuitive, they don't go into an offline server, enable hitboxes and study what happens to the server-sided hitbox when someone crouches. They didn't find out that crouching is not lag-compensated for. They simply do it by habit, that is not what I'd call a competitive approach), looking for new wallbangs (just one example to proof that nobody does this: on inferno, one of the many worthwhile wallbangs I've found is from vietnam to mid. You can bang on headshot level for full damage from there), looking for new spots (just one example of many I've found: again on inferno, you can get yourself on top of the door in ruins leading to CT spawn. Using this position you can single-handedly ruin a retake), looking for possible tricks (example: if you jump against an upper barrier repetitively using the mousewheel, you can get rid of the stamina limitations for crouching), finding boost spots or just generally learning more about how the game functions. Smokes you can "look around" using your outer FOV to expose areas behind it you are not visible from. Why don't boost people behind smokes to look over them? So many times I've seen teams simply stalling behind a smoke and trying to get some lucky shots through. Just get on top of somebody's head and look over it, that's possible on more spots than just mid on dust2 where you can see it sometimes being done by teams. GeT_RiGhT instead of changing to his pistol when dueling and running out of ammo sometimes throws his rifle away. Has anybody in the scene taken the 5 minutes it takes to find out whether that allows you to shoot your pistol faster? Doubt it. There is a way of achieving standard accuracy while on a ladder. You can prevent fall damage completely. I can't see how one wouldn't profit from incorporating some of these things competitively. I'm not even talking about changing the whole gamestyle, or saying that these things are game-breaking, just little things you can do here and there to gain that little edge over an opponent. An example in GO would be something I first saw some german players do. On dust2, coming from CT-spawn, when you want to peek an opponent on A plat, most players simply jump. This exposes your head for more than enough time for a good player to take it off. But if you stand against the building on the other side, there's an upper barrier that you can jump against to effectively collect information about the opponent's position on A plat without running the risk of being taken down, because you are visible for only a fraction of the time you otherwise are. You can use that same barrier to peek long without being able to be reacted to. When you enter B, or dark on dust2, you can use those arched things on the entrances to fly out faster than normal, while still hitting the ground to be accurate while shooting almost immediately. On nuke, you can stand on top of squeaky and open it from there. Then you can strafe your way from there into hut window. You can catch an opponent off guard, because if he hears squeaky, he will not expect you to be hut like a second later. I would love to see this kind of stuff being attempted in professional GO. These and more are just small things, it's not like they will change the game significantly, but they are useful enough to try and incorporate them to simply be that tiny bit better. Again, I'm not saying GO isn't as competitively viable as 1.6; I don't want to start one of those debates. GO puts much more emphasis on the mental skill aspects. It has to. Every game that isn't won by being mechanically superior has to be won by being mentally superior. And since we see a handful of teams winning more or less consistently, with NiP leading the way, it is certain that GO is as much of a skill-centered game not to produce random outcomes all the time. It's just that my nerd-heart bloomed at the sight of people doing neat stuff in 1.6. Boosting up one guy on mid on dust2 where you have to strafe-jump using a teammate's head. Players practically gliding through train perfectly, utilizing the ladders to gain speed, prevent fall damage and minimize sound queues. The stupid little surf on the pipes lower nuke, vent diving correctly, dodging top of banana by 180° strafe-jumping onto the ladder at T ramp inferno and from there jumping above banana entrance without being visible and doging pre-nades. Looking at the ground to see through smokes. The research that went in to setting up the game properly and how the netcode works. The different shooting techniques. There was just tons of stuff that fascinated me about the professional scene when I was younger, and even as I got older and knowledgeable about the game to a similar degree, it still felt incredibly rich, as if there were always secrets left to how pros can be so good. I was of course younger and more easily mystified, but GO isn't nearly as deep, nor does anyone really put the work in to learn how the game functions in terms of physics, netcode, game rules. This to me feels like a much more casual approach. That doesn't mean it isn't suited for competition, but it simply isn't as "cool" to me not seeing players do new things or develop unique playstyles. 1.6 was more of an instrument that could be played every which way, expressing unlimited possibilities. GO happens in the mind much more. To stay with this analogy, a choirmaster might be as good or better a musician that the violinist he is instructing, but who would you rather listen to?That's true, although only to a degree where after 2 years of teams clashing, and now with $100k on the line, I simply can't understand why the game is not evolving more rapdily. Let's not forget that the majority of the players currently competing have a rich background in older CS titles, meaning they already made it through a competitive learning curve in a similar game. Yes, there are parallels to 1.6 where that game's competitive origins were dominated by aimers and clutch-players as well. But the only reasons for GO to not be evolving in the same directions that 1.6 quickly did are that either the game itself is not as suited for being better mechanically than other players, not providing players with enough opportunity to get creative or players simply not valueing that aspect of the game. Which probably go hand-in-hand. The rest of this post is rambling about the professional scene that you don't really have to read. The tl;dr version would be something along the lines of: Be more fucking creative already. GO definitely isn't as allowing for someone to do innovative stuff on the maps or to be rewarded by practicing the mechanics of it. But again, there is definitely more stuff than what I'm currently seeing from players possible. There are some areas that are subject to innovation in GO right now. The biggest being grenade placement. Players do spend time on offline servers trying to find new smkes or flashes. The use of the fire grenades has evolved quite a bit. One-way smokes are a competitive asset now. Professionals obviously use one-way smokes and fire grenades regularly now. So, these innovations must be worthwhile. What I'm wondering then is how come people aren't looking for more stuff that could be as worthwhile to get a competitive edge and grab that $100k? It starts with mastering the spray pattern, really studying the movement (if you look at professional players today, they almost always crouch in a duel. I bet not a single one of them can tell you one good reason as to why they do it. It's purely intuitive, they don't go into an offline server, enable hitboxes and study what happens to the server-sided hitbox when someone crouches. They didn't find out that crouching is not lag-compensated for. They simply do it by habit, that is not what I'd call a competitive approach), looking for new wallbangs (just one example to proof that nobody does this: on inferno, one of the many worthwhile wallbangs I've found is from vietnam to mid. You can bang on headshot level for full damage from there), looking for new spots (just one example of many I've found: again on inferno, you can get yourself on top of the door in ruins leading to CT spawn. Using this position you can single-handedly ruin a retake), looking for possible tricks (example: if you jump against an upper barrier repetitively using the mousewheel, you can get rid of the stamina limitations for crouching), finding boost spots or just generally learning more about how the game functions. Smokes you can "look around" using your outer FOV to expose areas behind it you are not visible from. Why don't boost people behind smokes to look over them? So many times I've seen teams simply stalling behind a smoke and trying to get some lucky shots through. Just get on top of somebody's head and look over it, that's possible on more spots than just mid on dust2 where you can see it sometimes being done by teams. GeT_RiGhT instead of changing to his pistol when dueling and running out of ammo sometimes throws his rifle away. Has anybody in the scene taken the 5 minutes it takes to find out whether that allows you to shoot your pistol faster? Doubt it. There is a way of achieving standard accuracy while on a ladder. You can prevent fall damage completely. I can't see how one wouldn't profit from incorporating some of these things competitively. I'm not even talking about changing the whole gamestyle, or saying that these things are game-breaking, just little things you can do here and there to gain that little edge over an opponent. An example in GO would be something I first saw some german players do. On dust2, coming from CT-spawn, when you want to peek an opponent on A plat, most players simply jump. This exposes your head for more than enough time for a good player to take it off. But if you stand against the building on the other side, there's an upper barrier that you can jump against to effectively collect information about the opponent's position on A plat without running the risk of being taken down, because you are visible for only a fraction of the time you otherwise are. You can use that same barrier to peek long without being able to be reacted to. When you enter B, or dark on dust2, you can use those arched things on the entrances to fly out faster than normal, while still hitting the ground to be accurate while shooting almost immediately. On nuke, you can stand on top of squeaky and open it from there. Then you can strafe your way from there into hut window. You can catch an opponent off guard, because if he hears squeaky, he will not expect you to be hut like a second later. I would love to see this kind of stuff being attempted in professional GO. These and more are just small things, it's not like they will change the game significantly, but they are useful enough to try and incorporate them to simply be that tiny bit better. Again, I'm not saying GO isn't as competitively viable as 1.6; I don't want to start one of those debates. GO puts much more emphasis on the mental skill aspects. It has to. Every game that isn't won by being mechanically superior has to be won by being mentally superior. And since we see a handful of teams winning more or less consistently, with NiP leading the way, it is certain that GO is as much of a skill-centered game not to produce random outcomes all the time. It's just that my nerd-heart bloomed at the sight of people doing neat stuff in 1.6. Boosting up one guy on mid on dust2 where you have to strafe-jump using a teammate's head. Players practically gliding through train perfectly, utilizing the ladders to gain speed, prevent fall damage and minimize sound queues. The stupid little surf on the pipes lower nuke, vent diving correctly, dodging top of banana by 180° strafe-jumping onto the ladder at T ramp inferno and from there jumping above banana entrance without being visible and doging pre-nades. Looking at the ground to see through smokes. The research that went in to setting up the game properly and how the netcode works. The different shooting techniques. There was just tons of stuff that fascinated me about the professional scene when I was younger, and even as I got older and knowledgeable about the game to a similar degree, it still felt incredibly rich, as if there were always secrets left to how pros can be so good. I was of course younger and more easily mystified, but GO isn't nearly as deep, nor does anyone really put the work in to learn how the game functions in terms of physics, netcode, game rules. This to me feels like a much more casual approach. That doesn't mean it isn't suited for competition, but it simply isn't as "cool" to me not seeing players do new things or develop unique playstyles. 1.6 was more of an instrument that could be played every which way, expressing unlimited possibilities. GO happens in the mind much more. To stay with this analogy, a choirmaster might be as good or better a musician that the violinist he is instructing, but who would you rather listen to?That's true, although only to a degree where after 2 years of teams clashing, and now with $100k on the line, I simply can't understand why the game is not evolving more rapdily. Let's not forget that the majority of the players currently competing have a rich background in older CS titles, meaning they already made it through a competitive learning curve in a similar game. Yes, there are parallels to 1.6 where that game's competitive origins were dominated by aimers and clutch-players as well. But the only reasons for GO to not be evolving in the same directions that 1.6 quickly did are that either the game itself is not as suited for being better mechanically than other players, not providing players with enough opportunity to get creative or players simply not valueing that aspect of the game. Which probably go hand-in-hand. The rest of this post is rambling about the professional scene that you don't really have to read. The tl;dr version would be something along the lines of: Be more fucking creative already. GO definitely isn't as allowing for someone to do innovative stuff on the maps or to be rewarded by practicing the mechanics of it. But again, there is definitely more stuff than what I'm currently seeing from players possible. There are some areas that are subject to innovation in GO right now. The biggest being grenade placement. Players do spend time on offline servers trying to find new smkes or flashes. The use of the fire grenades has evolved quite a bit. One-way smokes are a competitive asset now. Professionals obviously use one-way smokes and fire grenades regularly now. So, these innovations must be worthwhile. What I'm wondering then is how come people aren't looking for more stuff that could be as worthwhile to get a competitive edge and grab that $100k? It starts with mastering the spray pattern, really studying the movement (if you look at professional players today, they almost always crouch in a duel. I bet not a single one of them can tell you one good reason as to why they do it. It's purely intuitive, they don't go into an offline server, enable hitboxes and study what happens to the server-sided hitbox when someone crouches. They didn't find out that crouching is not lag-compensated for. They simply do it by habit, that is not what I'd call a competitive approach), looking for new wallbangs (just one example to proof that nobody does this: on inferno, one of the many worthwhile wallbangs I've found is from vietnam to mid. You can bang on headshot level for full damage from there), looking for new spots (just one example of many I've found: again on inferno, you can get yourself on top of the door in ruins leading to CT spawn. Using this position you can single-handedly ruin a retake), looking for possible tricks (example: if you jump against an upper barrier repetitively using the mousewheel, you can get rid of the stamina limitations for crouching), finding boost spots or just generally learning more about how the game functions. Smokes you can "look around" using your outer FOV to expose areas behind it you are not visible from. Why don't boost people behind smokes to look over them? So many times I've seen teams simply stalling behind a smoke and trying to get some lucky shots through. Just get on top of somebody's head and look over it, that's possible on more spots than just mid on dust2 where you can see it sometimes being done by teams. GeT_RiGhT instead of changing to his pistol when dueling and running out of ammo sometimes throws his rifle away. Has anybody in the scene taken the 5 minutes it takes to find out whether that allows you to shoot your pistol faster? Doubt it. There is a way of achieving standard accuracy while on a ladder. You can prevent fall damage completely. I can't see how one wouldn't profit from incorporating some of these things competitively. I'm not even talking about changing the whole gamestyle, or saying that these things are game-breaking, just little things you can do here and there to gain that little edge over an opponent. An example in GO would be something I first saw some german players do. On dust2, coming from CT-spawn, when you want to peek an opponent on A plat, most players simply jump. This exposes your head for more than enough time for a good player to take it off. But if you stand against the building on the other side, there's an upper barrier that you can jump against to effectively collect information about the opponent's position on A plat without running the risk of being taken down, because you are visible for only a fraction of the time you otherwise are. You can use that same barrier to peek long without being able to be reacted to. When you enter B, or dark on dust2, you can use those arched things on the entrances to fly out faster than normal, while still hitting the ground to be accurate while shooting almost immediately. On nuke, you can stand on top of squeaky and open it from there. Then you can strafe your way from there into hut window. You can catch an opponent off guard, because if he hears squeaky, he will not expect you to be hut like a second later. I would love to see this kind of stuff being attempted in professional GO. These and more are just small things, it's not like they will change the game significantly, but they are useful enough to try and incorporate them to simply be that tiny bit better. Again, I'm not saying GO isn't as competitively viable as 1.6; I don't want to start one of those debates. GO puts much more emphasis on the mental skill aspects. It has to. Every game that isn't won by being mechanically superior has to be won by being mentally superior. And since we see a handful of teams winning more or less consistently, with NiP leading the way, it is certain that GO is as much of a skill-centered game not to produce random outcomes all the time. It's just that my nerd-heart bloomed at the sight of people doing neat stuff in 1.6. Boosting up one guy on mid on dust2 where you have to strafe-jump using a teammate's head. Players practically gliding through train perfectly, utilizing the ladders to gain speed, prevent fall damage and minimize sound queues. The stupid little surf on the pipes lower nuke, vent diving correctly, dodging top of banana by 180° strafe-jumping onto the ladder at T ramp inferno and from there jumping above banana entrance without being visible and doging pre-nades. Looking at the ground to see through smokes. The research that went in to setting up the game properly and how the netcode works. The different shooting techniques. There was just tons of stuff that fascinated me about the professional scene when I was younger, and even as I got older and knowledgeable about the game to a similar degree, it still felt incredibly rich, as if there were always secrets left to how pros can be so good. I was of course younger and more easily mystified, but GO isn't nearly as deep, nor does anyone really put the work in to learn how the game functions in terms of physics, netcode, game rules. This to me feels like a much more casual approach. That doesn't mean it isn't suited for competition, but it simply isn't as "cool" to me not seeing players do new things or develop unique playstyles. 1.6 was more of an instrument that could be played every which way, expressing unlimited possibilities. GO happens in the mind much more. To stay with this analogy, a choirmaster might be as good or better a musician that the violinist he is instructing, but who would you rather listen to?That's true, although only to a degree where after 2 years of teams clashing, and now with $100k on the line, I simply can't understand why the game is not evolving more rapdily. Let's not forget that the majority of the players currently competing have a rich background in older CS titles, meaning they already made it through a competitive learning curve in a similar game. Yes, there are parallels to 1.6 where that game's competitive origins were dominated by aimers and clutch-players as well. But the only reasons for GO to not be evolving in the same directions that 1.6 quickly did are that either the game itself is not as suited for being better mechanically than other players, not providing players with enough opportunity to get creative or players simply not valueing that aspect of the game. Which probably go hand-in-hand. The rest of this post is rambling about the professional scene that you don't really have to read. The tl;dr version would be something along the lines of: Be more fucking creative already. GO definitely isn't as allowing for someone to do innovative stuff on the maps or to be rewarded by practicing the mechanics of it. But again, there is definitely more stuff than what I'm currently seeing from players possible. There are some areas that are subject to innovation in GO right now. The biggest being grenade placement. Players do spend time on offline servers trying to find new smkes or flashes. The use of the fire grenades has evolved quite a bit. One-way smokes are a competitive asset now. Professionals obviously use one-way smokes and fire grenades regularly now. So, these innovations must be worthwhile. What I'm wondering then is how come people aren't looking for more stuff that could be as worthwhile to get a competitive edge and grab that $100k? It starts with mastering the spray pattern, really studying the movement (if you look at professional players today, they almost always crouch in a duel. I bet not a single one of them can tell you one good reason as to why they do it. It's purely intuitive, they don't go into an offline server, enable hitboxes and study what happens to the server-sided hitbox when someone crouches. They didn't find out that crouching is not lag-compensated for. They simply do it by habit, that is not what I'd call a competitive approach), looking for new wallbangs (just one example to proof that nobody does this: on inferno, one of the many worthwhile wallbangs I've found is from vietnam to mid. You can bang on headshot level for full damage from there), looking for new spots (just one example of many I've found: again on inferno, you can get yourself on top of the door in ruins leading to CT spawn. Using this position you can single-handedly ruin a retake), looking for possible tricks (example: if you jump against an upper barrier repetitively using the mousewheel, you can get rid of the stamina limitations for crouching), finding boost spots or just generally learning more about how the game functions. Smokes you can "look around" using your outer FOV to expose areas behind it you are not visible from. Why don't boost people behind smokes to look over them? So many times I've seen teams simply stalling behind a smoke and trying to get some lucky shots through. Just get on top of somebody's head and look over it, that's possible on more spots than just mid on dust2 where you can see it sometimes being done by teams. GeT_RiGhT instead of changing to his pistol when dueling and running out of ammo sometimes throws his rifle away. Has anybody in the scene taken the 5 minutes it takes to find out whether that allows you to shoot your pistol faster? Doubt it. There is a way of achieving standard accuracy while on a ladder. You can prevent fall damage completely. I can't see how one wouldn't profit from incorporating some of these things competitively. I'm not even talking about changing the whole gamestyle, or saying that these things are game-breaking, just little things you can do here and there to gain that little edge over an opponent. An example in GO would be something I first saw some german players do. On dust2, coming from CT-spawn, when you want to peek an opponent on A plat, most players simply jump. This exposes your head for more than enough time for a good player to take it off. But if you stand against the building on the other side, there's an upper barrier that you can jump against to effectively collect information about the opponent's position on A plat without running the risk of being taken down, because you are visible for only a fraction of the time you otherwise are. You can use that same barrier to peek long without being able to be reacted to. When you enter B, or dark on dust2, you can use those arched things on the entrances to fly out faster than normal, while still hitting the ground to be accurate while shooting almost immediately. On nuke, you can stand on top of squeaky and open it from there. Then you can strafe your way from there into hut window. You can catch an opponent off guard, because if he hears squeaky, he will not expect you to be hut like a second later. I would love to see this kind of stuff being attempted in professional GO. These and more are just small things, it's not like they will change the game significantly, but they are useful enough to try and incorporate them to simply be that tiny bit better. Again, I'm not saying GO isn't as competitively viable as 1.6; I don't want to start one of those debates. GO puts much more emphasis on the mental skill aspects. It has to. Every game that isn't won by being mechanically superior has to be won by being mentally superior. And since we see a handful of teams winning more or less consistently, with NiP leading the way, it is certain that GO is as much of a skill-centered game not to produce random outcomes all the time. It's just that my nerd-heart bloomed at the sight of people doing neat stuff in 1.6. Boosting up one guy on mid on dust2 where you have to strafe-jump using a teammate's head. Players practically gliding through train perfectly, utilizing the ladders to gain speed, prevent fall damage and minimize sound queues. The stupid little surf on the pipes lower nuke, vent diving correctly, dodging top of banana by 180° strafe-jumping onto the ladder at T ramp inferno and from there jumping above banana entrance without being visible and doging pre-nades. Looking at the ground to see through smokes. The research that went in to setting up the game properly and how the netcode works. The different shooting techniques. There was just tons of stuff that fascinated me about the professional scene when I was younger, and even as I got older and knowledgeable about the game to a similar degree, it still felt incredibly rich, as if there were always secrets left to how pros can be so good. I was of course younger and more easily mystified, but GO isn't nearly as deep, nor does anyone really put the work in to learn how the game functions in terms of physics, netcode, game rules. This to me feels like a much more casual approach. That doesn't mean it isn't suited for competition, but it simply isn't as "cool" to me not seeing players do new things or develop unique playstyles. 1.6 was more of an instrument that could be played every which way, expressing unlimited possibilities. GO happens in the mind much more. To stay with this analogy, a choirmaster might be as good or better a musician that the violinist he is instructing, but who would you rather listen to?That's true, although only to a degree where after 2 years of teams clashing, and now with $100k on the line, I simply can't understand why the game is not evolving more rapdily. Let's not forget that the majority of the players currently competing have a rich background in older CS titles, meaning they already made it through a competitive learning curve in a similar game. Yes, there are parallels to 1.6 where that game's competitive origins were dominated by aimers and clutch-players as well. But the only reasons for GO to not be evolving in the same directions that 1.6 quickly did are that either the game itself is not as suited for being better mechanically than other players, not providing players with enough opportunity to get creative or players simply not valueing that aspect of the game. Which probably go hand-in-hand. The rest of this post is rambling about the professional scene that you don't really have to read. The tl;dr version would be something along the lines of: Be more fucking creative already. GO definitely isn't as allowing for someone to do innovative stuff on the maps or to be rewarded by practicing the mechanics of it. But again, there is definitely more stuff than what I'm currently seeing from players possible. There are some areas that are subject to innovation in GO right now. The biggest being grenade placement. Players do spend time on offline servers trying to find new smkes or flashes. The use of the fire grenades has evolved quite a bit. One-way smokes are a competitive asset now. Professionals obviously use one-way smokes and fire grenades regularly now. So, these innovations must be worthwhile. What I'm wondering then is how come people aren't looking for more stuff that could be as worthwhile to get a competitive edge and grab that $100k? It starts with mastering the spray pattern, really studying the movement (if you look at professional players today, they almost always crouch in a duel. I bet not a single one of them can tell you one good reason as to why they do it. It's purely intuitive, they don't go into an offline server, enable hitboxes and study what happens to the server-sided hitbox when someone crouches. They didn't find out that crouching is not lag-compensated for. They simply do it by habit, that is not what I'd call a competitive approach), looking for new wallbangs (just one example to proof that nobody does this: on inferno, one of the many worthwhile wallbangs I've found is from vietnam to mid. You can bang on headshot level for full damage from there), looking for new spots (just one example of many I've found: again on inferno, you can get yourself on top of the door in ruins leading to CT spawn. Using this position you can single-handedly ruin a retake), looking for possible tricks (example: if you jump against an upper barrier repetitively using the mousewheel, you can get rid of the stamina limitations for crouching), finding boost spots or just generally learning more about how the game functions. Smokes you can "look around" using your outer FOV to expose areas behind it you are not visible from. Why don't boost people behind smokes to look over them? So many times I've seen teams simply stalling behind a smoke and trying to get some lucky shots through. Just get on top of somebody's head and look over it, that's possible on more spots than just mid on dust2 where you can see it sometimes being done by teams. GeT_RiGhT instead of changing to his pistol when dueling and running out of ammo sometimes throws his rifle away. Has anybody in the scene taken the 5 minutes it takes to find out whether that allows you to shoot your pistol faster? Doubt it. There is a way of achieving standard accuracy while on a ladder. You can prevent fall damage completely. I can't see how one wouldn't profit from incorporating some of these things competitively. I'm not even talking about changing the whole gamestyle, or saying that these things are game-breaking, just little things you can do here and there to gain that little edge over an opponent. An example in GO would be something I first saw some german players do. On dust2, coming from CT-spawn, when you want to peek an opponent on A plat, most players simply jump. This exposes your head for more than enough time for a good player to take it off. But if you stand against the building on the other side, there's an upper barrier that you can jump against to effectively collect information about the opponent's position on A plat without running the risk of being taken down, because you are visible for only a fraction of the time you otherwise are. You can use that same barrier to peek long without being able to be reacted to. When you enter B, or dark on dust2, you can use those arched things on the entrances to fly out faster than normal, while still hitting the ground to be accurate while shooting almost immediately. On nuke, you can stand on top of squeaky and open it from there. Then you can strafe your way from there into hut window. You can catch an opponent off guard, because if he hears squeaky, he will not expect you to be hut like a second later. I would love to see this kind of stuff being attempted in professional GO. These and more are just small things, it's not like they will change the game significantly, but they are useful enough to try and incorporate them to simply be that tiny bit better. Again, I'm not saying GO isn't as competitively viable as 1.6; I don't want to start one of those debates. GO puts much more emphasis on the mental skill aspects. It has to. Every game that isn't won by being mechanically superior has to be won by being mentally superior. And since we see a handful of teams winning more or less consistently, with NiP leading the way, it is certain that GO is as much of a skill-centered game not to produce random outcomes all the time. It's just that my nerd-heart bloomed at the sight of people doing neat stuff in 1.6. Boosting up one guy on mid on dust2 where you have to strafe-jump using a teammate's head. Players practically gliding through train perfectly, utilizing the ladders to gain speed, prevent fall damage and minimize sound queues. The stupid little surf on the pipes lower nuke, vent diving correctly, dodging top of banana by 180° strafe-jumping onto the ladder at T ramp inferno and from there jumping above banana entrance without being visible and doging pre-nades. Looking at the ground to see through smokes. The research that went in to setting up the game properly and how the netcode works. The different shooting techniques. There was just tons of stuff that fascinated me about the professional scene when I was younger, and even as I got older and knowledgeable about the game to a similar degree, it still felt incredibly rich, as if there were always secrets left to how pros can be so good. I was of course younger and more easily mystified, but GO isn't nearly as deep, nor does anyone really put the work in to learn how the game functions in terms of physics, netcode, game rules. This to me feels like a much more casual approach. That doesn't mean it isn't suited for competition, but it simply isn't as "cool" to me not seeing players do new things or develop unique playstyles. 1.6 was more of an instrument that could be played every which way, expressing unlimited possibilities. GO happens in the mind much more. To stay with this analogy, a choirmaster might be as good or better a musician that the violinist he is instructing, but who would you rather listen to?That's true, although only to a degree where after 2 years of teams clashing, and now with $100k on the line, I simply can't understand why the game is not evolving more rapdily. Let's not forget that the majority of the players currently competing have a rich background in older CS titles, meaning they already made it through a competitive learning curve in a similar game. Yes, there are parallels to 1.6 where that game's competitive origins were dominated by aimers and clutch-players as well. But the only reasons for GO to not be evolving in the same directions that 1.6 quickly did are that either the game itself is not as suited for being better mechanically than other players, not providing players with enough opportunity to get creative or players simply not valueing that aspect of the game. Which probably go hand-in-hand. The rest of this post is rambling about the professional scene that you don't really have to read. The tl;dr version would be something along the lines of: Be more fucking creative already. GO definitely isn't as allowing for someone to do innovative stuff on the maps or to be rewarded by practicing the mechanics of it. But again, there is definitely more stuff than what I'm currently seeing from players possible. There are some areas that are subject to innovation in GO right now. The biggest being grenade placement. Players do spend time on offline servers trying to find new smkes or flashes. The use of the fire grenades has evolved quite a bit. One-way smokes are a competitive asset now. Professionals obviously use one-way smokes and fire grenades regularly now. So, these innovations must be worthwhile. What I'm wondering then is how come people aren't looking for more stuff that could be as worthwhile to get a competitive edge and grab that $100k? It starts with mastering the spray pattern, really studying the movement (if you look at professional players today, they almost always crouch in a duel. I bet not a single one of them can tell you one good reason as to why they do it. It's purely intuitive, they don't go into an offline server, enable hitboxes and study what happens to the server-sided hitbox when someone crouches. They didn't find out that crouching is not lag-compensated for. They simply do it by habit, that is not what I'd call a competitive approach), looking for new wallbangs (just one example to proof that nobody does this: on inferno, one of the many worthwhile wallbangs I've found is from vietnam to mid. You can bang on headshot level for full damage from there), looking for new spots (just one example of many I've found: again on inferno, you can get yourself on top of the door in ruins leading to CT spawn. Using this position you can single-handedly ruin a retake), looking for possible tricks (example: if you jump against an upper barrier repetitively using the mousewheel, you can get rid of the stamina limitations for crouching), finding boost spots or just generally learning more about how the game functions. Smokes you can "look around" using your outer FOV to expose areas behind it you are not visible from. Why don't boost people behind smokes to look over them? So many times I've seen teams simply stalling behind a smoke and trying to get some lucky shots through. Just get on top of somebody's head and look over it, that's possible on more spots than just mid on dust2 where you can see it sometimes being done by teams. GeT_RiGhT instead of changing to his pistol when dueling and running out of ammo sometimes throws his rifle away. Has anybody in the scene taken the 5 minutes it takes to find out whether that allows you to shoot your pistol faster? Doubt it. There is a way of achieving standard accuracy while on a ladder. You can prevent fall damage completely. I can't see how one wouldn't profit from incorporating some of these things competitively. I'm not even talking about changing the whole gamestyle, or saying that these things are game-breaking, just little things you can do here and there to gain that little edge over an opponent. An example in GO would be something I first saw some german players do. On dust2, coming from CT-spawn, when you want to peek an opponent on A plat, most players simply jump. This exposes your head for more than enough time for a good player to take it off. But if you stand against the building on the other side, there's an upper barrier that you can jump against to effectively collect information about the opponent's position on A plat without running the risk of being taken down, because you are visible for only a fraction of the time you otherwise are. You can use that same barrier to peek long without being able to be reacted to. When you enter B, or dark on dust2, you can use those arched things on the entrances to fly out faster than normal, while still hitting the ground to be accurate while shooting almost immediately. On nuke, you can stand on top of squeaky and open it from there. Then you can straf
2014-05-02 09:58
2 replies
first
2014-05-02 23:14
finland cs teams in a nutshell: giant.gfycat.com/EachBriefHartebeest.gif
2014-05-05 09:26
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