What we learned from ESL ESEA

With the dust having settled at the ESL ESEA Pro League Season 1 Finals in Cologne, we take a look at what we learned from the $250,000 event.

Last night fnatic won the ESL ESEA Pro League Season 1 Finals, and $100,000 in prize money, after taking down Cloud9 3-1 in the grand finals - in a series they legitimately could have lost.

The event in Cologne was filled with upsets, as TSM was sent home on day one and two North Americans wound up making the top four, while the Boys In Blue also left the event disappointed.

In this article we take a look at some of the key takeaways from the event as we continue an incredibly busy season in CS:GO, including five international tournaments in the next six weeks. 


What are the key takeaways from the ESL ESEA Finals? 

 

What makes an event a major?

There has been some talk about this on our forums and on social media, so it's probably a good idea to clear it up. ESL ESEA Pro League Season 1 Finals was not a major. It should be obvious from the event name - a finals event can never be a true major, at least in the sense of what's been called a finals event in CS:GO so far - which clearly suggests it is a continuation of a previous phase, more than likely played online.

As such, there were only eight teams - or four teams from the world's top ten, per Duncan "Thorin" Shields. In addition, there were teams from other regions - Renegades, the former Vox Eminor side come to mind - who never had a chance to even qualify for this tournament. A major event cannot be one with few teams having a chance to attend, and even fewer attending in the event. I don't think a tournament with under twelve teams taking part could ever be considered a major.

Naturally prize money is a big part of it. In the old days of Counter-Strike, somewhere around the $50,000 mark - for first place - was the rough line drawn for an event to be considered a major. Arguably that has increased in CS:GO - there are now three or more events a year with a $100,000 first place prize, and as this weekend proved, even all of these are not majors. As the competition increases, we must also adjust our expectations and definitions accordingly.

Some will also want a large crowd present - something the likes of ESL One Katowice and ESL One Cologne's upcoming stadium this year - but it cannot be considered a must. Would you say last year's ESL One Cologne was not a major due to there being little room for a crowd then in Cologne? Of course not. A crowd is a bonus - along with top tier competition and large stakes, including both prestige and money - but it is not a must, at least not yet.

Finally, we need to address the suggestion that only Valve events are majors. That is also completely false. Valve-sponsored $250,000 tournaments wound up getting the major nod because they were the first tournaments in CS:GO to have large enough prize purses to be called a major. In the coming years that will change, and we might have to toughen up our criteria even further to not see the amount of majors inflated too much.


A crowd doesn't define an event 

 

North America trending up

Despite Robin "flusha" Rönnquist's pre-event interview with fragbite suggesting North Americans stood no chance, and his coach Viktor "vuggo" Jendeby's tweet implying his team were not worried about them at all, on Sunday night the fnatic team admitted the grand final - against a North American team no less - could have gone either way. Safe to say that was a surprise to everyone involved. There simply wasn't any data to suggest this was going to happen.

For one thing, experience matters. In our interview, Ryan "freakazoid" Abadir said that his team studying EnVy prior to Gfinity the week before helped Cloud9 be ready for the Frenchmen in their two battles, where they emerged victorious. In a post-match interview on ESL TV, CLG also stated that the fact they'd played fnatic four times now on de_mirage helped them gain a better undertanding of the team and played a big role in them being able to score the upset win.

The more North American teams get to play against Europeans, the better they will get. It's that simple. We already saw Liquid take maps from fnatic and Natus Vincere at Gfinity Spring Masters II, and now both CLG and Cloud9 here. That's three teams from the near-forgotten continent, in CS:GO, who have scored wins over tier one teams in recent months. There is no way in hell anyone could have expected that a few short months ago.

Another factor playing into this is the Keyd Stars effect. In an interview conducted at the ESL ESEA Pro League Finals, CLG's James "hazed" Cobb stated that the entire region sparked up in terms of both quantity and quality of practice when the Brazilians arrived. This will only get better in the future as Renegades will start spending time in North America as well. It's also getting to that point where it would make perfect sense for a team to relocate to Europe for an extended period of time.

North American fans have a lot to be happy about. Their region has finally had a meaningful result, after a dry spell of nearly nine months since FACEIT's Season 2 Finals last October. Not only that, more than one team did well - though CLG's wins were in best-of-one format - suggesting there may be more depth in North America than many realized. Counter-Strike will become more and more global in the future, and that's a good thing.


North America outdid all expectations in Cologne 

 

Issues with tournament format, setup, and...

Safe to say there were a number of issues at the ESL ESEA Finals. From tables far too narrow for the players to a lack of booths for the teams leading to players being able to use tricks to spot areas with flashbangs to hearing other teams' communications to the heat in Cologne to a format no one seemed to like, there have been few tournaments in the past with as many complaints. In fact, that's exactly what Duncan "Thorin" Shields tweeted.

Let's tackle them one at a time. The tables are undeniably too narrow. Players cannot fit their mousepads and keyboards normally on the tables without affecting their teammates - far from an ideal setup. This has been an issue at the ESL studios for years, and should have been taken care of by now. At the very least, one of the company's managing directors has said it will get taken care of soon. Hopefully in time for the ESL One Cologne qualifiers in a few weeks' time.

Addressing the second complaint is more complicated. Player booths obviously limit what the production crew can do with cameras, and therefore are a harder - and more expensive - fix to implement. Still, for a tournament's integrity to stay in tact, it may be necessary to make such booths standard protocol for big tournaments. The flashbang trick probably shouldn't be used - but should be expected as long as it is not forbidden - and teams should never be able to hear others' communications.

Watching the stream and seeing all the players sweating like, well, the pig that Jesper "JW" Wecksell tweeted standing on top of a large pile of money after their win, was brutal. It's obvious the temperature was incredibly hot in Cologne - record heat - and you cannot blame ESL for that. It's an unfortunate event, and in an ideal world the air conditioning could have solved the issue, but it is what it is. To me, this is the thing you can least blame the organizers for.

Finally the most important issue was the tournament format. Though I argued for best-of-one and generally think its issues are overrated, it's obvious players want to play best-of-threes - even as underdogs, as Tarik "tarik" Celik's tweet proved. It also gives everyone more Counter-Strike to watch, and gives underdogs more experience. ESL ESEA had enough time - four days for eight teams - to make it happen if they wanted to, but it would have required some compromise on their part. Well, with the amount of attention this got, it seems that it's another issue that will be solved in the future.

The good thing about the lax format was players genuinely seemed to like it and it probably does make for better games due to improved preparation. In addition, it allowed for us to do much better in-depth coverage for each round of games than we normally do. I don't think it was in ESL's best interest to play one-on-one or three-on-three showmatches with casters though, as it sent a bad message to followers who wanted the world's best playing at those times too.

One last note was the abrupt change of the map veto system for the grand final. As I tweeted, I thought that was a mistake on the organizers' part, changing the rules before the most important match of the event. It essentially allowed the best teams under one ruleset to make the grand final, where they may not be the best teams anymore. It's hard enough to be a good team on six maps. Why push it with seven, dragging the level of play down with it? Consistency is key.


Table space was a scarce commodity in Cologne 

 

Cloud9 are a top team

It's too early to rank Cloud9 properly. They could finish this six week stretch of tournaments with a placing in the top five, or merely rounding up the top ten - or, possibly, even finish outside of it, as unlikely as that seems. However, it's not too early to call them a legitimate top team - a fair title for anyone who can take fnatic to their very limits in a best-of-five series, and win a series against EnVyUs during the same tournament.

In my opinion the most valuable player in Cloud9 was Sean "seang@res" Gares. Take away the fragging of Mike "shroud" Grzesiek or the AWPing of Tyler "Skadoodle" Latham and it's clear the team doesn't make it this far. But if we were to look for replacements in North America, or anywhere in the world, with an attempt to replicate what Cloud9 did in Cologne during the past week, there's no question - in my mind - that the hardest player to replace was their in-game leader, whose calls were on-point all event long.

Following one of the all-time horrible series in London, freakazoid bounced back in Cologne with some impactful rounds - including giving C9 their best shot at closing de_dust2 in the grand final with the 385 damage spray at map point - and did a solid job calming the team down in their voice communications while giving input in calls. He was also arguably the team's second best communicator, which probably shouldn't be overlooked in a team with two fairly quiet players.

Jordan "n0thing" Gilbert seemed to struggle with the adjusting playing style of the team, but had a pretty good event aside from the grand final. Realistically he is the swing player in this team - with a higher upside than others from their average level of play - whose strong performances could put Cloud9 over the top, if he can get comfortable enough in their new style of play to play at a star level consistently. Skadoodle proved again that he is a world-class AWPer, and can hold his own against just about - if not - everyone.

Finally - and perhaps most importantly - this was shroud's breakthrough event. Though he's been a fan favorite for a long time due to streaming and a number of highlights on the internet, never before has he put together such a strong showing at a tournament - likely partly due to his team's struggles - as here. Plus, he was the best player in the best-of-five grand final versus fnatic, hitting thirty kills on two separate maps. A player to watch in the future, for sure.

Cloud9 were a few minor breaks both from losing 0-3 and from winning 3-1. It goes both ways and fans' logic suggesting they should have won obviously doesn't hold up. If they can build on this result - which the POV stream VODs will help with - they can, and should, put up more good results. There's so many international tournaments coming up in the next six weeks that they are bound to get more good wins. It'd take a miracle for them to fail at each. And each will give them a chance to improve.

Critics may remember last year's ESL One Cologne, where Cloud9 bested both dignitas - now TSM - and Titan in the group stage, after neat comebacks. There they took NiP to their limit in the quarter-finals, only to be not heard of again, basically, for ten months. That's definitely a worry for fans now too, but one major difference is that this time there's a lot of tournaments coming up where they can get better. Last year, they had a break for 10 weeks. Let's see if they can make them count.


Cloud9 are a top team 

 

POV streams' effect

Perhaps the single most controversial subject of this past week has been the POV streams ESL provided for each team in all of their matches. From players recognizing the disadvantage of English speaking teams to fans getting outraged from hearing their favorite players making fun of their opponents during the heat of the battle, there has been a lot of talk about whether these streams are something that should continue being provided in the future.

ESL's Ulrich Schulze stated they may discontinue the streams. As hard as that is to hear for someone for whom the streams made the event twice as fun to watch, it's probably the right call. In no other sport do fans get the same kind of access to a team's communication at all times, and frankly it's extremely invasive. Players do not like it - and it's not a game-changer for fans - so it probably should not come back next time. The cons outweigh the pros in this one.

Still, how fun was this tournament precisely because of the POV streams? During the ESL ESEA Pro League Season 1 Finals - and I would argue it's all thanks to the POV streams - in-game leaders got more appreciation than they probably have in nearly the past three years CS:GO has been played. seang@res's reads and calls in those EnVy and fnatic series are already legendary, and will completely transform his image in the eyes of the fans who are used to looking at the scoreboard alone.


POV streams helped fans understand in-game leaders' effect on games 

 

EnVyUs - last in, first out

The topic is not a reference to a common accounting method where the last arriving item to an inventory is the first to leave. Instead, it refers to the Frenchmen reportedly being the last ones to come in prior to their matches, and then the first ones to go out - of the tournament - on the following day. This may wind up being a controversial topic, but it probably wouldn't be fair to ignore given its impact. Plus, it's up to a team of professionals to do what's best, or most important, for them.

Multiple sources on-site in Cologne confirmed to HLTV.org that EnVy were drinking late the night prior to their quarter-final against Cloud9 - which took place in the afternoon the next day. It wouldn't surprise anyone who saw Richard "shox" Papillon warming up before the match. To further add insult to injury, this is apparently a common trend for the Frenchmen, who have now lost a staggering six out of their eight first maps of the day at their three most recent tournaments. It would be easy to suggest a correlation there, but obviously there are no guarantees.

Those six losses came in against GPlay, FlipSid3, dignitas, and Cloud9 - three times. In other words, they were clear favorites in each of them. We'll never know if the two are connected, but for a team who have been so consistent for nearly a year and have been considered a top three side for the entirety of its existence, that's a troubling sign. Players have made similar mistakes in the past, but with the level of professionalism in the game increasing, they should slowly start disappearing. We'll see.


EnVy's morning struggles continued at ESL ESEA 

 

Are fnatic the GOATs of CS:GO?

I think now is the time we pose the question so we can let it sink in during the following weeks, because we may have to hand over the crown no one ever thought NiP would have to give up after the 87-0 run, in less than two months. How incredible is that? This fnatic squad may, very well in my opinion, be the greatest team of all time in CS:GO. Their results speak for themselves.

In a much more competitive era, fnatic have won nearly everything for close to a year since the pair of Freddy "KRIMZ" Johansson and Olof "olofmeister" Kajbjer joined. They have racked up over $600,000 in prize money alone, winning one major, placing second at another, and going out in the controversial boostmeister-game in the third - where they'd have been clear favorites to win it all had they gone through that round. I don't think this would even be a discussion if they had two major titles, and they may get that second one soon.

fnatic has a very good in-game leader in Markus "pronax" Wallsten and four of the world's best players. Their stars seemingly go back and forth in dominance, with KRIMZ emerging as the world's best in late 2014, with JW playing great as well, and with olofmeister taking his former LGB teammate's title this year. Last night, it was flusha who was their best player across a best-of-five final, where the pairing who joined last summer struggled.

The Black and Orange are an incredibly deep team. Their trophy cabinet makes any other team envious, they have lost few series across this team's existence, and what's more, they are favored to win the next major too. And the tournaments before that. Though it doesn't apply for this case, we also shouldn't forget this team's core won another major in 2013. So I ask, do we really think NiP dominating a weak scene in 2012-2013 was more impressive?


fnatic - the greatest CS:GO team of all-time? 

 

The summer season in Counter-Strike continues this week with ESWC in Montreal, QC, Canada, followed up by the FACEIT Stage 2 Finals the week after in Valencia, Spain.

After Valencia the top of the scene will head to Columbus, OH, USA for the CEVO Season 7 Finals, followed by - or overlapping - ESL One Cologne's regional qualifiers.

In August we will still get Gfinity Summer Masters II as a final prelude to ESL One Cologne, the next CS:GO major. Fans are certainly getting spoiled with action this summer.

Follow HLTV.org's @lurppis_ on Twitter.

United States Ryan 'freakazoid' Abadir
Ryan 'freakazoid' Abadir
Age:
26
Team:
Rating 1.0:
1.00
Maps played:
783
KPR:
0.70
DPR:
0.69
APR:
0.15
Sweden Viktor 'vuggo' Jendeby
Viktor 'vuggo' Jendeby
Age:
-
Team:
Rating 1.0:
0.99
Maps played:
7
KPR:
0.58
DPR:
0.59
APR:
0.15
Sweden Freddy 'KRIMZ' Johansson
Freddy 'KRIMZ' Johansson
Age:
25
Team:
Rating 1.0:
1.06
Maps played:
1377
KPR:
0.71
DPR:
0.63
APR:
0.15
Sweden Markus 'pronax' Wallsten
Markus 'pronax' Wallsten
Age:
28
Team:
No team
Rating 1.0:
0.89
Maps played:
1199
KPR:
0.60
DPR:
0.67
APR:
0.14
France Richard 'shox' Papillon
Richard 'shox' Papillon
Age:
27
Team:
Rating 1.0:
1.10
Maps played:
1573
KPR:
0.75
DPR:
0.66
APR:
0.12
Sweden Jesper 'JW' Wecksell
Jesper 'JW' Wecksell
Age:
24
Team:
Rating 1.0:
1.06
Maps played:
1597
KPR:
0.74
DPR:
0.68
APR:
0.14
United States Jordan 'n0thing' Gilbert
Jordan 'n0thing' Gilbert
Age:
29
Team:
No team
Rating 1.0:
1.02
Maps played:
813
KPR:
0.70
DPR:
0.68
APR:
0.15
United States Tarik 'tarik' Celik
Tarik 'tarik' Celik
Age:
23
Rating 1.0:
1.05
Maps played:
1193
KPR:
0.73
DPR:
0.67
APR:
0.15
Sweden Robin 'flusha' Rönnquist
Robin 'flusha' Rönnquist
Age:
26
Team:
Rating 1.0:
1.07
Maps played:
1502
KPR:
0.73
DPR:
0.65
APR:
0.18
United States Tyler 'Skadoodle' Latham
Tyler 'Skadoodle' Latham
Age:
26
Team:
No team
Rating 1.0:
1.06
Maps played:
1047
KPR:
0.68
DPR:
0.59
APR:
0.11
Sweden Olof 'olofmeister' Kajbjer
Olof 'olofmeister' Kajbjer
Age:
27
Team:
Rating 1.0:
1.08
Maps played:
1329
KPR:
0.74
DPR:
0.65
APR:
0.13
United States James 'hazed' Cobb
James 'hazed' Cobb
Age:
30
Team:
Rating 1.0:
1.00
Maps played:
736
KPR:
0.69
DPR:
0.70
APR:
0.15
United States Sean 'seang@res' Gares
Sean 'seang@res' Gares
Age:
31
Rating 1.0:
0.88
Maps played:
713
KPR:
0.59
DPR:
0.68
APR:
0.14
Canada Mike 'shroud' Grzesiek
Mike 'shroud' Grzesiek
Age:
25
Team:
No team
Rating 1.0:
1.07
Maps played:
676
KPR:
0.72
DPR:
0.65
APR:
0.14
+1
2015-07-06 22:03
Time FOR MOLOTOV PARTY vs. Shox? hltv.org/movie/18008-mad-shox-molotov-wa..
2015-07-06 23:52
great article, highly recommend
2015-07-06 22:03
My favorite part is "So I ask, do we really think NiP dominating a weak scene in 2012-2013 was more impressive?" lurppis i love you for saying that
2015-07-06 22:13
I just wanna have my input here. I never thought nor do i think anyone said ever that nip is still the best team for some success against a weak scene in 2012-2013. More like that + being in every major grand final to exist until this day, winning one last year. You're a dumbass to say nip are the best team of all time. but honestly few years from now people will retire and even less than years away from now fnatic wont be the best team anymore not with the same lineup. That's what happened to nip. edit: if nip ever got a successful team again, they'd be able to claim the best team of csgo back
2015-07-07 12:37
#3
 | 
Russia necromorph 
n1
2015-07-06 22:03
#4
 | 
South America IFK 
good stuff
2015-07-06 22:03
+1
2015-07-06 22:03
goodie
2015-07-06 22:03
#8
Dosia | 
Netherlands timbolina 
I already read this article thoroughly
2015-07-06 22:03
nice
2015-07-06 22:03
#10
mason | 
World PRQN 
nice
2015-07-06 22:03
n1
2015-07-06 22:04
I like this
2015-07-06 22:04
the pig JW lol
2015-07-06 22:05
n1
2015-07-06 22:05
#15
 | 
Germany 1criT 
Still don't get why C9 would be a Top 5 team after 1 Tournament.. if you look at the past international tournaments they nearly everytime ended up behind the EU teams..
2015-07-06 22:05
this was second lan with that lineup?
2015-07-06 22:16
3rd GFinity spring , summer and Pro league.
2015-07-07 02:13
yeah forgot that first gfinity
2015-07-07 04:45
That was before the roster change, you can't hold them to those failures with a different roster. They are basically a new team now, and they are top 5 imo
2015-07-06 22:21
#65
Canada jKr` 
he didn't say "cloud9 is a top 5team" Its to early to give them a rank. He did say "cloud is a TOP Team", top team can be anywhere in the top10-15. -"a fair title for anyone who can take fnatic to their very limits in a best-of-five series, and win a series against EnVyUs during the same tournament."
2015-07-06 22:23
#71
 | 
Germany 1criT 
Sorry missunderstood it
2015-07-06 22:23
pls quote te part where he writes "c9 are now a top5 team"
2015-07-06 22:24
#78
 | 
Germany 1criT 
Sorry missunderstood it
2015-07-06 22:24
well u should, its a good article
2015-07-07 00:01
gut stuff
2015-07-06 22:06
#20
 | 
Hong Kong SHiFT^up 
Totally agree with fnatic being the best team of all time in GO. At least for now, as we may see nV cleaning up their shit after getting bashed LAN after LAN. Funny how every time it comes down to bo1s, Danish teams like TSM choke and crash out
2015-07-06 22:07
#74
Canada jKr` 
did fnatic already won more then "early" NiP ???
2015-07-06 22:24
in prize money - yes. in tournaments - no. but like lurppis said the scene back when nip was still good was very weak in comparison to today, so that makes it far less impressive.
2015-07-07 00:02
The dominance of 2012-13's NiP was greater than the current fnatic's compared to their respective opponents. However, the performance and results achieved by fnatic are far more impressive given the amount and level of competition they have been playing in since they formed the line-up. As we'll likely never see the kind of dominance NiP had in the early years for obvious competitive reasons, it's fair to say that the current fnatic are the best line-up who played the game so far, in terms of results. Winning Cologne would completely seal their title of GOAT, but they're already unofficially there.
2015-07-07 01:59
yep that nip domination wasnt really fair, they already knew the game when it came out like noone else, the "competition" at that time vs today's is like heaven and hell (literally, for Nip)
2015-07-07 08:22
nV hasnt beaten fnc since this lineup was made 9-10 months ago so why wud they start beating them all of a sudden? Kinda reminiscent of the old verygames always losing to nip
2015-07-07 01:25
They did beat them. Twice on LAN (one Bo1, one Bo3), and several times online (don't remember how many exactly, there was at least two Bo3 I think, and a few Bo1s). However, the head-to-head is overwhelmingly in favor of fnatic, and I don't expect it to change any time soon. nV's mindset at the moment will never bring them even close to fnatic's level. They seem to just take the money provided by their organization and play the tournaments on the fly, without a care in the world. They have so much skill that they can still win from time to time, but I hate to see such talent wasted by stupidity, I hope they fail hard and deep (I doubt ESL/ESEA was enough) so that they can learn some wisdom and bring the real CS we deserve as CS:GO fans.
2015-07-07 02:07
You know nothing about NV dude. How many teams with a lot of skills are failing ? Do you always say it's because they are stupid ? You just clearly hate NV x) Plus, NV doesn't win from "time to time", but very often, just check. Even though, they make it to the finals almost every times, and choking against Fnatic or Navi, so I think a lot of teams have to bring, as you said, "the real CS" before them.
2015-07-07 09:22
There's absolutely zero team that I hate in the CS:GO scene. In fact, nV are among the teams I enjoy the most to watch. I never said they were stupid, I said they're wasting their talent because of stupidity, which isn't the same thing. You just don't drink alcohol late at night before a match, it's basic principles to be on point and focused the next day. Over-all, they feel far less prepared and professional as before, as if the money changed the way they approach competition. All these losses to under-dogs are very worrying for the state of their game. nV doesn't win "very often", there are several LANs they could have won that they didn't, in my opinion not by a lack of skill or luck, but by a lack of preparation and practice. With 4 titles in 2015, they're among the teams with the best results, but compared to their potential, they still have a long way to go. In my opinion, with the proper mindset and preparation, they could be on par with fnatic at their best, probably better (but that's hard to know). Their play style is another issue regarding their performance: it's not consistent enough. They rely too much on individual initiatives and very loose rounds. With skills such as theirs, it's understandable that they're comfortable playing like this, but if they want to go to the next level and consistently get titles, they'll need to bring some structure to their game. In my opinion it's the big difference between fnatic and the other top teams at the moment: they have found the perfect structure which fits their different players. When I was talking about "real CS", I meant that they had to stop acting as if they don't care about the event, and instead they should really focus on: 1. manage underdogs 2. find ways to beat fnatic I wasn't saying that they had to learn to play or anything of the sort.
2015-07-07 09:57
+1 great post
2015-07-07 11:05
Oh, I got you wrong mate, sry. Now I understand what you're saying. Really well explained, and I totally agree. Indeed, they got the skill and experience to be on top every time, but they don't focus enough, as you said, and it's pretty annoying.
2015-07-07 14:14
#352
 | 
Hong Kong SHiFT^up 
+1
2015-07-07 21:27
Multiple sources on-site in Cologne confirmed to HLTV.org that EnVy were drinking late the night prior to their quarter-final against Cloud9 - which took place in the afternoon the next day. It wouldn't surprise anyone who saw Richard "shox" Papillon warming up before the match. where lol?
2015-07-06 22:07
lol so sad. nV sinking lower and lower.
2015-07-07 04:50
But still Top5, not so low... As long as they don't go down as deep as Titan :D
2015-07-07 09:35
we learned euros are crybabies when they lose, players and fans alike
2015-07-06 22:08
No. We learned that there are kids with small penises (figuratively speaking) whose egos cant take anything negative. Most EU have nothing against succesful NA team, and welcome the competition with open arms.
2015-07-07 09:27
+1 This was great for the scene, looking forward to next events. It's just the fanboys, who are the cancer.
2015-07-07 11:30
+1 I was very happy to see C9 pulling some good stuff !
2015-07-07 15:13
Cloud9 are a top team RIP
2015-07-06 22:11
#136
 | 
Russia stat1c 
cloud9 as 5 people are a top team
2015-07-06 23:33
well fnatic have won the most price money because obviously the price pools are way higher these days, so i dont know if u can really judge by that ..
2015-07-06 22:08
You can judge by how competitive teams are today. Anyone can beat anyone - at least in top 5 - these days, which clearly wasn't the case in 2013. It was NiP, VG and that's pretty much it.
2015-07-06 22:21
yeah i didnt deny that did i? i was just refering to the price pool topic
2015-07-06 22:30
I agree, I never was a fan of comparing competitors through prize money won, because it can be so irrelevant to the difficulty of their achievements and also so dependent on during which period of time the competitors have played.
2015-07-07 03:52
#265
mir | 
Serbia Krimzynn 
Actually, NiP won more money overall than Fnatic.
2015-07-07 11:04
#27
 | 
Italy 1nf3rn4L 
I hate when he is toxic but i admit he write good stuff
2015-07-06 22:08
"What we learned from ESL ESEA" losing skins. gg
2015-07-06 22:09
We learned that everyone is cheating their balls off, that no pro is immune (not even Shox), and that the entire pro scene is a huge joke at the moment.
2015-07-06 22:09
gyazo.com/7baebb93b25c86e55162ea014052b1.. dude? what is wrong with you ? xD
2015-07-06 22:11
hypocrite
2015-07-06 22:25
#81
 | 
Germany Hampel 
hes a little bit retardelele in his head
2015-07-06 22:26
Hahaha !
2015-07-07 09:37
perfect example of the average hltv idiot.
2015-07-06 22:28
LOL he only has 1 tactic to bait
2015-07-06 22:32
LOL THEY REMOVED FETISH BECAUSE HE WASNT CHEATING
2015-07-06 23:57
how much?
2015-07-06 22:32
You're funny
2015-07-07 03:47
#260
AdreN | 
Kazakhstan Aiomie 
+1
2015-07-07 10:50
Lurppis u have to be at next lan for a good discussion between maps etc.. Plus no bo1's even in groupstages
2015-07-06 22:15
TLDR: Na is decent EEPL wasnt a major bo1 is hitler etc
2015-07-06 22:11
Fnatic have won 2 majors? not one?
2015-07-06 22:12
talking about this specific lineup
2015-07-06 22:20
1 with this lineup
2015-07-06 22:29
nice
2015-07-06 22:13
so when HLTV Reviewed this they didnt see he wrote the p"the pig" jw
2015-07-06 22:15
vp cant still into fnatic
2015-07-06 22:15
/delete Cloud9 are a top team - HAHAHAHAHAHA 100% not top 5
2015-07-06 22:17
He gave them no specific rank, only calling them a top team.
2015-07-06 23:36
If they can beat nV again and take more maps of fnatic in the near future they can realistically be top5.
2015-07-07 04:52
#228
AZK | 
United States Dood 
Top team refers to in the Top 10...
2015-07-07 05:55
Top 5 is what silver care, when Lurppis talks about top team he most likely talks about top 10-15 team that on a good day can challenge top 3 teams. Its like football: Messi/CR7 are good, rest are shit for average fanboy, in reality any player in any top team is good; some are just magnificient.
2015-07-07 09:30
"the pig Jesper "JW" Wecksell" hahahahahahah wtf
2015-07-06 22:18
the pig jesper jw tweeted jw tweeted a picture of a pig get it ?
2015-07-06 22:29
How respectful of a community site to insult a pro player. Good guy lurppis =)
2015-07-06 22:18
how did he disrespect jw ? not his fault you don't understand english. He is clearly referring to jw's tweet, where he posted a pig with money
2015-07-06 22:23
Learn some english please. Fucking drama queen
2015-07-07 03:50
we learned that bo5's are too random, we need bo10's to make sure its fair
2015-07-06 22:19
valve needs to add more maps then lol, bo7 would be perfect
2015-07-06 22:54
#207
 | 
Sweden fued 
Hopefully, then maybe there will be cs_office action
2015-07-07 04:15
Bo7 would be very awesome :D
2015-07-07 07:50
lurppis "like the pig JW" oh no he didnt
2015-07-06 22:20
actually it says "the pig jw tweeted"
2015-07-06 22:22
yepp read it again and saw it :D
2015-07-06 22:32
C9 POV made this tournament worth watching.
2015-07-06 22:20
i TOTALLY AGREE MAN
2015-07-07 02:24
#318
 | 
Cyprus Swishh_ 
+fucking1
2015-07-07 15:17
+1
2015-07-07 15:42
+1
2015-07-07 18:09
its confirmed, JW is a pig
2015-07-06 22:21
calling jW a pig on an article ahahah
2015-07-06 22:21
can you even read?
2015-07-06 22:24
of c0urs3 n0t m4t3
2015-07-07 02:55
Go back to school.
2015-07-06 22:36
oh lurpiss nice i.imgur.com/kDq3jub.png
2015-07-06 22:21
L2English
2015-07-07 00:12
lurppis you should consider editing the "pig jw" sentence as 95% of the community will misunderstand it
2015-07-06 22:21
amazed to see how many misread that e: actually im not, this is hltv.
2015-07-06 22:23
yup, hltv at it's best
2015-07-06 22:23
But also lurppis kinda misread that jw tweet, it wasnt about the heat it was refer to those all oink comments and how the "pig" made money by winning again :D
2015-07-06 22:27
I had to read it a few times, and I just kept thinking to myself, that he couldn't actually have been calling him that.
2015-07-06 22:34
I would add to this that VP is a team who can play way better than expected given enough motivation i.e. as big event as this one.
2015-07-06 22:21
They didn't play better than expected, they did exactly as any sane person would think. Beating C9 and LG is not unexpected, and neither is getting a single map off Fnatic.
2015-07-06 22:42
Cloud9 best
2015-07-06 22:22
Lurppis kills it with these. They are so joyful to read.
2015-07-06 22:22
I'm a NiP fan, but I believe fnatic's current dominance is equal to if not better than NiP's early reign. The only thing holding me back from saying their dominance is unequivocally more significant than NiP's is their three losses to TSM within the last few tournaments (2 finals, 1 semi-final). Also, I just love olof's attitude toward this game. Outside the game he's pretty chill and super nice. Inside the game, he is the ultimate competitor with a killer instinct.
2015-07-06 22:23
#72
shox | 
Sweden moonman33 
Fnatic dominance > nip 87-0 Nip's only close opponent was verygames, and even they got the better of them late 2013
2015-07-06 22:23
what we learned from ESL ESEA was: - How to make year's worst event with 250k$
2015-07-06 22:24
very nice. and yes, fnatic is the best CS GO team of all time at this point.
2015-07-06 22:24
#79
kNgV- | 
Brazil vicTHOR 
No mentions to the reborn of the BR CS, wich was dead since the end of the 1.6's age. =( Beating TSM definitely marks that we are back on business.
2015-07-06 22:25
+1. Congrats to KeyD on that win too. :)
2015-07-06 22:31
Yup, one BO1, suddenly you are in the top 10. Get real.
2015-07-06 22:37
lol mate, calm down, he didnt said that they were in Top 10. I love Japan BTW, ive been there twice, arrived from the second time last week. Me and my dad work for Yamaha, he goes to japan every 6months cuz he is one the directors from Finland, Sweden, Norway and Denmark. I only started woking this year so thats why ive only been there twice. But i fucking loved that place. And I must say that you are an exception, Japanese people are among the most educated.
2015-07-07 03:34
And on what basis are you suddenly judging my education? :D
2015-07-07 04:03
Not going to discuss with you my friend. Just look at the comment that i replied.
2015-07-07 04:48
Of course you won't discuss it, there is no basis for your dumb claim whatsoever. Goodbye.
2015-07-07 05:16
See that... Its a shame that the HLTV community has members like you. Bye. And learn how to speak english too.
2015-07-07 18:36
Right, because it is a complete win for HLTV to have members assuming a lack of education because of a dispute over team ranking :D Shame... Please restrain from visiting Japan again, you would lower the IQ in the entire city. Cheers.
2015-07-07 18:38
I wont restrain from visiting Japan because I work in one of the biggest companies from your country. Im super happy that i didnt got to meet a japanese like you xD
2015-07-07 18:43
I feel the same way about people like you, who will tell others to calm down when they are calm as a wind, call them uneducated based on absolutely nothing and when asked for a reason they will refuse to provide one, but will keep on calling people dumb. I usually call such people assholes, so I am glad I don't get to meet them.
2015-07-07 18:50
You are probably never going to visit Finland.
2015-07-07 18:49
I sincerely hope so. You are painting quite a scary picture of your country.
2015-07-07 18:51
There isnt acctualy much to see here. OK, lets stop with this ok? We both come from very good countries and with very strong tradions. Im sorry if I offended you, that clearly wasnt my intention.
2015-07-07 18:55
Apology accepted, have a good one.
2015-07-07 18:56
For you too xD
2015-07-07 18:56
#199
kNgV- | 
Brazil vicTHOR 
I didnt say that. But I do think Keyd is Top8~10 world.
2015-07-07 03:57
So... you did say that just now. They are not btw.
2015-07-07 04:04
#310
kNgV- | 
Brazil vicTHOR 
Not going to spending my time with no name country in cs.
2015-07-07 14:48
hahahaha, no arguments > insulting the scene :) Typical HLTV no brainer.
2015-07-07 15:06
#327
kNgV- | 
Brazil vicTHOR 
No arguments? The only excuse you give to me to not admit Keyd has defeated a bunch of top teams and therefore is top10 is cause it was "bo1". It was not online bo1, it's different. A match is a match, Keyd has won these top teams cause they were BETTER than them. If they are top10 or not is just a matter of opinion, but in some days they'll play eswc against the best EU tier 2 teams and we gonna prove their top 10. Unless you come at me again with the tard "argument" "uhh bo1". Stop giving excuses like a crying baby... just like the french guys saying the Envyus team was drunked the night before... wtf, this crying is ridiculous, accept that an "underdog" played better and won a match. Edit: I wasn't insulting you, I've just brought you a fact. :D
2015-07-07 16:30
They didn't defeat bunch of top teams. They narrowly beat TSM in BO1. They lost to CLG and they lost to fnatic. They won one of their three matches. They won one of four maps they played in total. If you think that this result (being 5th-6th in an event with 8 teams, 4 of which aren't even in top 10 themselves) pushes them into the top 10, you are clueless. Or a fanboy. Or both.
2015-07-07 16:42
#332
kNgV- | 
Brazil vicTHOR 
By your logic TSM and Envyus aren't top10 neither. =] Broken logic...
2015-07-07 16:58
I think it is your brain that is broken, because you obviously have no idea how rankings work. TSM and Envy both have a lot of great results this year against the best teams, which easily push them to top 5. All KeyD has is a BO1 upset and couple of wins against NA teams who are like tier3 in EU.
2015-07-07 17:00
#335
kNgV- | 
Brazil vicTHOR 
Haha ok, your logic works only for determined teams, chosen mainly by personal like. Again, it's an invalid logic. Ending discussion here. Bye bye.
2015-07-07 17:26
It is not my logic, it is THE logic. Which you don't get, because you lack the brainpower. You are clearly stupid KeyD fanboy, enjoy dreaming about top10. kkthxbb.
2015-07-07 17:53
Please tell me more about Keyd being top 8-10 world. Thanks.
2015-07-10 19:15
lol
2015-07-06 22:39
#201
kNgV- | 
Brazil vicTHOR 
an indian in a cs forum... lol just as weird as an indian playing football, voley, formula 1, basket ball... oh wait, do you guys are good at some sports/e-sports? lol Sorry tho...
2015-07-07 03:58
Lol, keyd proved themselves in a few random Bo1s,they get a spot,why the fuck should the other team get one ? Also , you conveniently name the sports in which brazil has a presence.... expected from retarded people... Prood that you are retarded : "But I do think Keyd is Top8~10 world." LMAO
2015-07-07 08:22
#309
kNgV- | 
Brazil vicTHOR 
mad cause br are good on cs, already world champions, you envy our relative success on something you suck. continue acting like a tard indian and i'll kick you out of the BRICS.
2015-07-07 14:46
Wait ? BR good on CS? Wtf are you talking about ? You wont kick me out of anywhere,but you will stay retarded,that's for sure.
2015-07-07 18:43
#350
kNgV- | 
Brazil vicTHOR 
lmao Definitely not keeping this discussion after that.
2015-07-07 19:01
retard spotted
2015-07-07 10:54
#308
kNgV- | 
Brazil vicTHOR 
I was quiet, but the retarded indian came at me with the irony... couldn't stay quite. hehe
2015-07-07 14:42
How are POV-streams not a game-changing effect for viewers? It's the best thing that happened for eSports viewers for a long time.
2015-07-06 22:26
+1
2015-07-06 23:30
+1
2015-07-07 04:44
+1
2015-07-07 15:19
Thank god it has finally been said in a legitimate article that NIP only dominated in 2013 bc the scene was so weak...They are not the best team in csgo history, it is obvious that fnatic are. NIP are maybe a top 5 team now since the scene has gotten so competitive...the 87-0 streak was literally bc of tier 3 competition.
2015-07-06 22:27
It would be like having: Fnatic, the clear #1 (old NiP) EnVy, the clear #2 that can't beat the clear #1 (VG) And then the third best team is on like G2's level.
2015-07-06 22:30
Just because fnatic 2015 are better than NiP 2012-2013 does not automatically mean fnatic's dominance in 2015 > NiP's. The later "great" teams are always better than the great teams of the past. fnatic 2009 was dominant, but was their dominance as great as SK 2003's reign? I would say no. But fnatic 2009 would 2-0 SK 2003 any day, any map.
2015-07-06 22:43
but fnatic 2015 are competing against teams that have been playing the game for 4years now and have adapted to how the game is played and their major focus is on csgo. When NIP was dominating, the teams they played against hadnt had anywhere near as much practice in csgo or the knowledge of how it is supposed to be played. Also some teams hadnt even committed to csgo fully at the time.
2015-07-07 00:46
I don't disagree with you - I myself believe fnatic's dominance trumps NiP's reign, despite being a NiP fan. I'm just saying there's an argument that going 87-0 is more compelling than winning nearly every tournament you play in, even if you lost three of them to the same team. Kind of reminds me of eoL being the "godslayer" because they consistently beat SK back in like 2001-2003 despite SK completely wrecking everyone else.
2015-07-07 17:11
Fnatic now > NiP 2012-2013
2015-07-06 22:27
#89
 | 
Germany jonezz 
nice read, thanks!
2015-07-06 22:30
great read <3
2015-07-06 22:30
nV are disapointing :(
2015-07-06 22:34
#103
 | 
Netherlands xdanny 
Lel shox that warmup HAHA
2015-07-06 22:35
Watching the stream and seeing all the players sweating like, well, the pig Jesper "JW" Wecksell tweeted standing on top of a large pile of money after their win, was brutal best part :D
2015-07-06 22:36
Great article hltv
2015-07-06 22:36
We learned that hltv community cannot understand basic English. I'm talking about jw pig thingie
2015-07-06 22:38
@NiP No Gux, No Win.
2015-07-06 22:38
You must realize csgo is a game and nearly 50% if not more that play this game are either retards or children, so its better to edit the jw part and include a picture for them to understand what you meant. Even though i disagree with some of the parts, good read lurppis.
2015-07-06 22:39
rofl the amount of people that don't know grammar in the pig sentence
2015-07-06 22:41
+999999999999999
2015-07-06 22:45
+1
2015-07-06 22:47
lurpis umad cus JW>allu? LELELELELE
2015-07-06 22:47
Wow lurrpis is on fire these past few weeks, so many great articles.
2015-07-06 22:55
the pig jesper
2015-07-06 22:57
What we learn? Another cheater in competitive scene, correct shox?
2015-07-06 22:57
You are one of these retards ?
2015-07-06 23:17
yes and you?
2015-07-06 23:25
More like the opposit
2015-07-06 23:27
ah, maybe could i ask where are you from?
2015-07-06 23:57
Im no fakeflagger
2015-07-06 23:59
here we go
2015-07-07 00:00
??
2015-07-07 00:03
now you know who is retard
2015-07-07 00:03
I didnt need that tbh i understood at your first comment
2015-07-07 00:04
please do the world a favour and shut the fuck up
2015-07-07 01:59
+1
2015-07-07 09:43
the world? only you want it, idiot
2015-07-07 16:10
so you're a retard from the opposite side ?
2015-07-07 15:40
i see a retard when i watch myself in the mirror = i m opposit of a retard, mirror confirmed rekted so hard m8
2015-07-07 18:22
Lurppis writing articles again is a great refreshment to the site. Good read.
2015-07-06 23:15
How can the envy management allow their players to just blatantly drink like that? That's fucking weird.
2015-07-06 23:39
Because they won like 4 events even doing so and their coach is some kind of ex-cod player only DMG in cs, basically theres no one to control them.
2015-07-07 02:18
Good read. NiP fangays got BTFO
2015-07-06 23:40
Fnatic are true warriors. They lost in 28 rounds vs CLG, then won in 30 rounds vs TSM. Vs Keyd Stars, they won a map in overtime. Vs Cloud9, they lost cobblestone in 30 rounds despite C9 having a huge lead in CT side. They made a comeback on overpass and won in 30 rounds then made a comeback again on dust2 to win in overtime. They're never giving up and that's what made them win this tournament. Cloud9 was on fire and had the momentum going for them on almost all of the maps in the final but they still ended up losing to a Fnatic team that came back everytime. Impressive.
2015-07-06 23:59
but...but......hltv kids say c9 sucks?? Pros must know less than the teenage silvers on here. Kappa
2015-07-07 00:06
We learned 2 things 1. Everyone can beat everyone 2. BO1 format sucks, teams like TSM went out in the group
2015-07-07 00:09
Many conditions could've been better but maybe next time?
2015-07-07 00:25
Numbers of the events? Asistants, viewers, and more, please.
2015-07-07 01:10
nice article
2015-07-07 01:21
good read +1e9
2015-07-07 01:33
Good read.
2015-07-07 01:49
What we learned : Pro Scene still a joke with 0 anti cheat measurents. Just Give everybody the Gear they want BUT they cant take their own stuff. Put 1 security guy behind the teams to check shady activities and introduce keyboard / mouse cams . god it almost seems like tournament organisers and valve even want to help the cheaters COUGHFNATICANDNOWEVENENVYCOUGH pro scene is a joke
2015-07-07 02:02
Solid points. Personally I loved the POV streams and really think this is a great move for aspiring teams to learn from how top teams communicate. I personally think what tournaments should do when broadcasting POV streams, is that they delay them for a further 90 seconds on stream as well as GOTV, and then once the match has finished, hide said broadcast from public and release a month or two down the line post event with adequate subtitles. That way you avoid some of the issues from this LAN where English speaking teams are not disadvantaged. I really do feel it'd be a shame if events did stop doing them because they add an extra layer of comedy and an extra layer to the game for all other teams who are watching and trying to learn from pro's.
2015-07-07 02:43
POV streams harm the players both due to community backlash, as well as compromising their tactics (especially in the case of English speaking teams). They are a nice luxury on the face of it, but cause so many issues. Teams should be able to refuse to have their POV streamed if they so choose, or at least have the audio removed.
2015-07-07 10:58
People really care that much about the "community backlash". I mean anyone with half a brain will understand it is all in the spirit of the game, especially those of us who have been around for a while. As I stated the solution I've just given above would eradicate your issues you just threw back at me.
2015-07-07 14:15
Those suggestions could work at an extent sure. Doesn't completely nullify it however, but it would go a long way. There are a hell of a lot of people that are vocal in the community without half a brain then, since most of them don't understand that what's said in a POV stream is just to pump each other up, and keep motivated, not a reflection of the players personality. It will have negative drawbacks for the players in the future for sure.
2015-07-07 14:22
But does it really? I mean not being funny, the "backlash from the community" shouldn't really be on anyones minds. The solution to that issue would be putting a small disclaimer in the video (if POV on YT then in the description). And let's be absolutely honest it is NO different to what TaZ did last year at Katowice on stage to some teams, so if you are going to take away VODs for the Political Correctness of teams, then perhaps about time to take trash talking out too? Which would be a big mistake imho.
2015-07-07 14:54
I agree it's a mistake, but where witch-hunts can be avoided, they should be. I maintain that team SHOULD have the right to say no to having their audio streamed. It's pretty ridiculous that they don't already actually.
2015-07-07 15:14
#180
Poland MJP 
Keep POV stream i love it ! No problem with make a joke about the enemy team. After the game they all frends again. Same in any sport , first they fight then adrenaline is gone , and everyone are back to earth :] Keep POVSTREAM !
2015-07-07 02:56
#181
 | 
Taiwan SCVready 
nice read lurppis!
2015-07-07 03:02
Damn alot of cancerous posts lately from the users, alot more than usual I feel like, any reasons it is that way?
2015-07-07 03:11
#183
Poland MJP 
Lurppis you should mentioned about all of teams playing finals after all. Not only 2 of them .
2015-07-07 03:16
why is this at the top again
2015-07-07 03:25
this wtf
2015-07-07 03:29
moi
2015-07-07 03:37
Envy alcoholics, should be sent to rehab
2015-07-07 03:38
lurppis so proud of his work its bumped to top
2015-07-07 03:40
lurppis thanks for clearing out to these silver headz that this was NOT a major
2015-07-07 03:44
$500,000 for prizes to tell all the viewers about... $100 for a fan and two walmart tables in a empty garage.
2015-07-07 03:49
Lurppis and his stories about the main events, so funny dude lolololol
2015-07-07 04:13
I agree with most of what is said, except for the part arguing that NA CS is growing stronger. It's true that these results are encouraging, but given the fact that we had to wait almost a year after the last time an NA team reached a final, I'm waiting for NA to confirm C9's performance in the next tournaments. Fnatic will be able to claim GOAT after a win at Cologne. Gl to them. Also worth noting that nV are really looking lazy as fuck. It seems that having salaries in order to play a game is getting to their head. If they start to think that all this is just a matter of showing up at an event, plugging your mouse and clicking heads, I don't give them much time before they start collapsing. I think they need a good hard slap to the face (figuratively of course). Getting out of groups once is a first wake-up call, but somehow I doubt it'll be enough. They have so much talent, such behaviour from their part is a waste for CS:GO. Anyway, still gl to them.
2015-07-07 04:28
Great article. 10/10 would read again.
2015-07-07 04:46
Great read! Thanks.
2015-07-07 04:48
If people really needed povs to value the igl's job, then this comunity is full of noobs.
2015-07-07 04:58
+1
2015-07-07 09:45
Agree- pro sports have 4 majors per year not 2, just because its not the masters or Wimbledon doesn't mean its not as important. Though 16 teams should be the min. so for that only esea-esl wasn't a major in this case. Agree- But trending doesn't mean much Disagree- All teams play same conditions and I don't think it truly affected the quality. Agree- I bet you really think they should replace freak, like everyone else who refuses to embrace intangibles. Agree- basically forcing people to be recorded is borderline illegal. Agree- Meh Disagree- They exploit, probably cheat, and are such turds they have their manager do all the talking in the postgame interview. Old NiP best #-allu
2015-07-07 05:22
Teams being able to hear each other, and teams being able to hear the casters has got to be the biggest issue.
2015-07-07 05:35
And the lack of security at the event, as pointed out by some players.
2015-07-07 05:38
good read!
2015-07-07 05:42
Very good read! 10/10
2015-07-07 05:45
What i've learned is that some pro players (30 according to a certain interview) still cheat cause Valve and tournament organizers don't want to commit to erase that scum, just because they don't want to "kill" the game...but i also learned that history repeats itself and if it keeps like this, with obvious use of hacks ( and don't come with fkn bullshit excuses please, i said obvious use of hacks and its not my fault the majority has a vision problem or are just dumb) will eventually be the reason for CS:GO downfall, just like it was for 1.6...Lucky me, cause i love history!
2015-07-07 06:05
What interview are you referring to? Is it the one from like a year ago where he doesn't give any proof and basically just threw names on a list?
2015-07-07 06:52
is this one csgo.99damage.de/de/interviews/23269-for.. and i don't really care about what blind people say. There are pros cheating and it's so obvious it hurts my brain how people still think nothing happens.
2015-07-07 13:29
Yep, that's the one with no proof. Keep living in your bubble kid.
2015-07-09 11:14
#256
solo | 
Switzerland CHEDEL 
The downfall of 1.6 wasn't because of cheaters. But back on 1.6 era, organizers were more aware of cheats and banned players from their league (because VAC was shit, only banning free cheats for cs 1.3) not like nowadays that player who is suspect as shit (flusha, jw, ...) can play free because everybody seems to belive in VAC. SO NO VAC = legit, which is completely false. The amazing fact is all those players come from source... ;)
2015-07-07 10:16
I was talking in general, like if you wanted to play a match i remember being hard to play without at least one guy being cheating. Leagues and pro scene i don't really know that much what happened. But as a game 1.6 decline started because of the use of cheats.
2015-07-07 13:33
#302
solo | 
Switzerland CHEDEL 
Yeah the late 1.6 was full of cheaters. But i played in amateur level in this time and cheat was "rare".
2015-07-07 13:45
#230
 | 
Argentina ivanpb 
bo1 means nothing go bo3 and if even top teams lose go bo7
2015-07-07 06:14
"fnatic - the greatest CS:GO team of all-time?" what about nip's record? not even close
2015-07-07 06:37
"The Black and Orange are an incredibly deep team. Their trophy cabinet makes any other team envious, they have lost few series across this team's existence, and what's more, they are favored to win the next major too. And the tournaments before that. Though it doesn't apply for this case, we also shouldn't forget this team's core won another major in 2013. So I ask, do we really think NiP dominating a weak scene in 2012-2013 was more impressive?"
2015-07-07 06:57
#237
REAL | 
Norway kakkopp 
Cba read Just Tons Cheaters,freakazoid on this level arent think that
2015-07-07 07:15
#239
 | 
France Kanti 
we learn that it's not because you are the leader of your world (esports tournament in this case) that you know what you are doing.
2015-07-07 08:11
So I ask, do we really think NiP dominating a weak scene in 2012-2013 was more impressive? the answer is hell no. If you look at the garbage teams NiP would face in the quarter and semi finals of each tournament they won, they were trash rosters like Anexis, nfaculty, 3DaysMax, and that English mousesports lineup. The only good teams during that era of CS were NiP, Verygames, Area51 / Quantic, and Western Wolves if you look at the players from the statpages at tournaments in 2012 / 2013, hardly any of them play t1 / t2 CS anymore
2015-07-07 08:58
I wanna make clear that I'm talking 2012-mid 2013 here, during NiP's 87 - 0 run. Late 2013 was when GO started to become legitimately competitive, with teams like a reformed CPH wolves (that ended up becoming TSM), Recursive which ended up becoming LDLC, the iteration of Virus Pro that became Astana (even though Astana ended up sucking), Complexity when they still had Swag, Fnatic once they dumped their 1.6 roster, etc.
2015-07-07 09:24
Record POVs, upload after tournament. Ez pz lmn sqz
2015-07-07 08:50
Brave.
2015-07-07 09:02
I agree on the NiP part that the 87-0 wasn't something spectacular when only VG was the only team that could do some real damage to them back in the days and later came WW etc. Fnatic is definitely the greatest team in CSGO history and I'm guessing it'll stay that way until some huge changes happen again.
2015-07-07 10:49
They are not playing clean, even though I would've agreed two days ago but watching some POVs of previous tournament it is clear that they use aim lock for "stability". NiP at least was clean.
2015-07-07 11:17
Silver shit detected.
2015-07-07 11:25
Don't look at my ass or I call the police, 3d worlder.
2015-07-07 11:28
Yea I do not like the bo1 for a major, but happy that the NA-scene came so well prepared.. overall good games, but bo1? please, plenty of time and the casters had too much time letting out crap we could have spend watching proper cs:go
2015-07-07 10:58
Please don't join the anti-pov stream lobby :( pov streams make the games several times more entertaining AND educational. It's such an amazing thing to have and honestly, the players just need to adjust to it as well as organizers (don't display it on the way to WC for example).
2015-07-07 11:00
Always appreciate the underdog....
2015-07-07 11:15
nice c9!
2015-07-07 11:18
#278
AdreN | 
Kazakhstan Aiomie 
I learned that cheating in CS is necessary to gain stable, guaranteed profit from salary, winning prizes, sponsorship, and is "good" for almost every party involved. Too bad I want to ruin it.
2015-07-07 11:39
the POV streams made it much more interesting to watch, anyone who's actually offended by players thrashtalking during a game need to loosen up a bit :D
2015-07-07 11:57
i agree:D but maybe lets make the POV visible on youtube AFTER the tournament so IGL from other team can't profit on the tournament
2015-07-07 12:12
Yeah for sure, just making the VODS available when the tournament is over would solve that issue
2015-07-07 15:07
fnatic is a better team than NiP ever was, no argument about that. But you can't try and rewrite history - NiP winning 87 maps in a row was absolutely insane. And you can't take that away. Even with a weaker scene, there were so many tight games, so often it looked like they would finally lose. But they always managed to pull it back. It was crazy. fnatic on the other hand are consistently very strong, but they are by no means invincible. They drop maps and even bo3 series to other top teams regularly. You think NiP would have ever dropped a map to Liquid? You think Liquid is closer to fnatic skillwise than Verygames or HR was to NiP? Of course not. That's why NiP's run of form was absolutely unreal, and better than anything fnatic has achieved (yet.)
2015-07-07 12:07
i agree. NIP 87 streak was insane. Fnatic nowadys is insane but not that little bit extra level what NIP had in the past. Biggest difference is that fnatic can lose sometimes a map ( 1 of the 25 maps for example ) to a underdog. NIP lost never in that streak a map to a underdog what make that super strong. Nowadays the competition is bigger and stronger. But i think there is something to say too for that. If the competition is stronger you stay longer focussed because the teams can always win for you in the NIP 87 streak time, they are more boring becuase they win every game and lack of exciting in the most games. if fnatic can make a 50-60 streak nowadays, i will say thats even impressive as NIP 87 streak if they will make a 70+ streak now, i will say fnatic is the best team ever in csgo.
2015-07-07 12:16
Players do not like it - and it's not a game-changer for fans - so it probably should not come back next time. Like seriously ? this is totally game-changer for fans, we get to understand how communication work in a team. That's probably one of the best thing in the cs scene, being able to listen to team's comm. They should deffinitely keep that.
2015-07-07 12:08
End of an era for NA.
2015-07-07 12:09
"Finally, we need to address the suggestion that only Valve events are majors..." in your face, anyone who argued with me ! :|
2015-07-07 12:15
sry but that esl tourny sucked ass and smells like shit to heaven. first off this whole wannabe na is super elite pushed shizzle, don't even worth my shitty fart cause they suck dick and then those gay ass moderations. the only one i can stand is semmler of those mods and i missed thorin or lurpis. so don't bring those lowlifers on the table next time only cause they look handsom and some bad. bring those which have a real clue about cs and not all those homos and unreals main. (i heard semmler is homo but he is a blessed and good guy and Kind of a exception in the homo sector of People i appreciate) i want a true Scene, with honest and true hearted People being legit and that's it. and that's by far not to much to ask for. those lowlifers and unreals shouldn't have the nerves to provocate with Zero knowledge and being cheeky illuminati Freaks.
2015-07-07 12:31
we learned that fnatic cant win easily with cheats
2015-07-07 12:28
and i dont even wanna start talking about the envy fnatic match. i am just saying next time Show us a true honest tournament or go and fuck yourself in the ass idiots. and this has be said. it cant be that every kind of shit gets manipulated by wrong minded people nowadays, so this was a friendly saying by me. just that you get it. you are doing this whole Thing in front of millions peoples eyes and most important our existing allmighty living god christ, so do it for real guys. Jesus! time to get real or lost and i don't want you to get lost. but if you dont listen and doing your own wanna be smart Party all life Long then you will fall to a damned pit, it's easy as that. god loves you, Christ loves you, but you gotta listen main.
2015-07-07 12:43
what we learned at ESEA ESL? tldr Never underestimate tier 2222 burgericanos
2015-07-07 12:42
TIME TO GET REAL AND THAT TOURNY WASN'T REAL. Result = NA isn't even on german Penta Tier 5 Level, sucks dick and envy and fnatic are kings anway without the need to sell their souls next time. it doesnt work like that. life is serious you know, god is loving but serious and also you gotta be and that's simply it. have a nice day and may god bless you with his allmighty mercy and love! i wish it but you gotta open your hearts, broaden your minds for god's allmighty power and love and stop dealing with the devil! means step into the light before darkness kills ya guys! thanks.
2015-07-07 12:50
I like how your baguette ass added envy side by side fnatic just to call them kings.
2015-07-07 13:07
Please keep POV-streams. Its very enligtening to listen to the players talk in-game and great fun sometimes. Besides that, I need an alternative stream for the official stream. I dont wanna listen to Semmler saying same shit over and over again. "He lines them up!!!" (That doesnt even make sense) "It's a straight up brawl" "They add insult to injury" "Right into the blender" Please... Keep POV-streams.
2015-07-07 13:03
I learned that this tournament is just a shit becouse players can hear casters and learned that EnVyUs players are just some immature kids that rapresent a good organisation and they insult other religions and players that even if they are not on the top but they are still good. This could be the wrost tournament of 2015 :)
2015-07-07 13:17
Forgot to mention where fnatic asked for pause and they had to lose 2 rounds before the pause came in.
2015-07-07 13:31
Top class Lurppis! Your articles are really enjoyable.
2015-07-07 14:00
+1
2015-07-07 15:20
"So I ask, do we really think NiP dominating a weak scene in 2012-2013 was more impressive?" True. We are in a different era right now with many skilled players. Fnatic is the best team in CS:GO history, no doubt.
2015-07-07 14:33
As hard as that is to hear for someone for whom the streams made the event twice as fun to watch, it's probably the right call. In no other sport do fans get the same kind of access to a team's communication at all times, and frankly it's extremely invasive. Players do not like it - and it's not a game-changer for fans. How is making the event twice as fun not a game-changer?
2015-07-07 14:55
POVs ARE AWESOME SHUT UP LURRPIS!
2015-07-07 15:10
What a great read. Thank you. Edit: Also, that 29-70 fREAKAZOiD had at Gfinity :D That's just brutal. Glad he managed to step up.
2015-07-07 15:24
#324
 | 
Greece her-1g 
The last statement is solid. even though im a cloud9(exCOL) fan i have to admit that fnatic are worlds best team and the best csgo has seen so far. they are dominant in every aspect, tactics, aiming, defensive play, changing play styles through the round, exchanging roles with each other. There are so much going on with this team that the most dominant team ever (in numbers) NiP didnt even have. As for the NA scene. it became better when solid teams, that have 1 major core of players ,happened. Look at CLG, cloud9, keyd, and other teams like nihilum that will emerge. Liquid have become much better, luminosity will, for sure, improve enough and with renegades coming along i can see a really strong NA scene for the 2015/2016 season
2015-07-07 15:58
fnatic, a pig, two cheaters, and the boostmeister
2015-07-07 16:11
#328
NiKo | 
Poland Jaruzel 
No love for VP as always.
2015-07-07 16:36
BO1 is shit and NA have done their homework.
2015-07-07 16:55
Good read. Freak is such a valuable player because he brings competition experience to the team, both CS and sport competition. He wants to win and is very focused on doing so. That attitude is the complete opposite of Semphis and what NA is notorious for. His dedication is part of what is bringing the team back, IMO.
2015-07-07 17:52
there is a professional team in the scene, and then there is a bunch of fucking morons which people mistakenly consider professional teams
2015-07-07 19:04
A major is an event, where fnatic's playing.
2015-07-13 06:39
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