Valve expound on coach decision

Valve have released a blog further explaining their decision to limit coach communication.

Two days ago an e-mail disclosing the new coaching rules surfaced as Valve limited the amount of impact coaches can have by restricting their communication during matches. It was revealed that with these new rules, coaches will only be able to talk to the players during warmup, half-time breaks, and one of four 30-second timeouts.

ESL disclosed they will comply with the rules starting with ESL One New York taking place from September 30 to October 2 and featuring teams such as Liquid, and Natus Vincere who respectively have Luis "peacemaker" Tadeu and Sergey "starix" Ischuk as their in-game leading coaches.

Valve explained in their new blog post that they were open-minded about the involvement of coaches in preparation, support, and opponent study but believed that only the five-men lineups should be involved once the actual game started.

The e-mail Valve sent came about after an event organizer received a request from a coach to allow more in-game access for coaches. The said organizer forwarded the e-mail to Valve and they stepped in to clear the situation.

The full statement can be found below:

At past Majors, we have had conversations with pro teams about the participation of their coaches in the gameplay responsibilities of players and they assured us that their coaches focused on activities traditionally associated with coaching, such as preparation, support, opponent study, etc.

We were always open with them about our opinion that distributing the work of 5 players (e.g. keeping track of the economy, calling plays and mid-round calls, and general situational awareness) across 6 people was not in line with our goals, one of which was to make it possible for new teams to emerge and compete at the highest levels. We had no concerns with the other coaching responsibilities and at the time any potential harm was hypothetical.

Since then it has become apparent that teams are, in fact, transitioning away from fielding players that have a wider breadth of skills and instead relying on coaches to handle some of that work.

On August 8th an event organizer forwarded us an email from a coach, representing some top teams, stating that the status-quo was no longer acceptable and that they insisted on more in-game access for coaches during their events. The organizer was aware of our concerns and asked us, in light of the current trend, whether we intended to take a position on coaching.

The forwarded email made it clear that despite the conversations we had with them, teams were further investing in coaching in a way that was contrary to the goals of the Majors and the concerns we had expressed. It was important to make a decision before teams further invested in coach IGLs and we decided to rein in the role of coaching in the next Major to exclude player responsibilities. We informed the event organizer of our decision (see below) and asked them to incorporate our message into their conversation with the pros.

We understand that there will be some short term disruption for teams that have made an investment in coach IGLs. However, we intend the Majors and Minors to be events that can be won by any team of 5 players that demonstrate excellence in all skills of CS and this adjustment is intended to ensure that this remains true.

This is just the most recent adaptation in our continuing process of improving the Majors and Minors. As always, you can send us feedback at CSGOTeamFeedback@valvesoftware.com

For reference, our original message:

With unrestricted communication with their players, coaches can currently function as a sixth player, and not solely as a source of guidance or training.

Activities such as keeping track of the economy, calling plays, and general situational awareness are important components of CS gameplay. If a person is performing these actions, we consider them a player.

Since the goal of our events is to identify the best five-player CS teams that exhibit the best combination of all CS skills, the current participation of coaches in the game is not compatible with that goal.

To address this problem, future Valve sponsored events will enforce the following coaching rules:

  • During a match, the coach may only communicate with the players during warmup, half-time, or during one of four 30 second timeouts that the coach or player can call.

Obviously, third party events can use whatever rules they want but if you want to align your events with ours then we recommend using this coaching rule.

BenjaCS is a staff writer at HLTV.org and can be found on Twitter.

Ukraine Sergey 'starix' Ischuk
Sergey 'starix' Ischuk
Age:
31
Team:
Rating 1.0:
0.97
Maps played:
562
KPR:
0.66
DPR:
0.66
APR:
0.14
great news
2016-08-19 00:30
Well sk gaming are going to be even more dominant now that they have an ingame igl and a lot of teams have coaches/
2016-08-19 15:56
FalleN is brilliant man , this team dont need a coach(imo)
2016-08-20 12:49
Conspiracy theory: Zews knew it all beforehand and got the fuck off to become a player.
2016-08-21 06:12
maybe but I doubt it
2016-08-22 19:22
This is gonna be controversial..
2016-08-19 00:30
#226
 | 
Canada jalexf 
What isn't controversial nowadays?
2016-08-19 04:39
baby squirrels?
2016-08-19 07:30
baby squirrels killed my mother
2016-08-19 08:20
sleep in peace sweet princess :'(
2016-08-19 08:38
+1
2016-08-19 08:35
#8
suelo | 
Germany siN1337 
n1
2016-08-19 00:29
n1? valve are so stupid, the goal of the majors should be to support the best kind of e-sport, not they way they want them.
2016-08-19 12:43
no stop
2016-08-19 00:30
#14
ropz | 
Ireland dotjpg 
interesting
2016-08-19 00:30
xd
2016-08-19 00:29
nice
2016-08-19 00:29
wow
2016-08-19 00:29
lel
2016-08-19 00:29
ty Gabe
2016-08-19 00:30
=)
2016-08-19 01:14
wow
2016-08-19 00:30
Ok then
2016-08-19 00:30
#25
Canada [1t] 
a
2016-08-19 00:30
#27
Aerial | 
Brazil Cupinxa 
rip
2016-08-19 00:30
#28
 | 
Germany MrMaxiKing 
1
2016-08-19 00:30
expected
2016-08-19 00:30
#31
 | 
Lithuania Fastum2K 
+1
2016-08-19 00:30
#32
f0rest | 
Estonia Rebae 
k
2016-08-19 00:30
#33
 | 
Lithuania FakeLithuania 
volvo
2016-08-19 00:30
ty god
2016-08-19 00:30
Valve can go suck a fat cock.
2016-08-19 00:30
XDMEMEs
2016-08-19 00:30
#38
 | 
United States Drifter808 
Expoud?
2016-08-19 00:30
2016-08-19 00:31
And what about dream3rs VAC?
2016-08-19 00:30
who cares
2016-08-19 00:45
Respect Valve, finally. This CSGO, not CSGO Coach/Manager 2016. Good job.
2016-08-19 00:31
#47
 | 
Japan Th3Koala 
Vp? Kuben are 50% igl... Valve plz
2016-08-19 00:31
Both snax and neo are in-game calling. Kuben is giving them feedback / ideas, so VP are going to be good no matter the ruling.
2016-08-19 01:04
#229
 | 
Luxembourg alex24 
yeah like last night vs Faze :)))))) vp disband incoming
2016-08-19 07:18
Like online games matter, besides VP was always bad online ;)
2016-08-19 07:21
#232
 | 
Luxembourg alex24 
yeah they do matter you need to qualify online to play offline :D
2016-08-19 07:23
ESL will make them qualify Kappa
2016-08-19 07:25
#248
 | 
Poland Mannix 
Like they really need him lol Nothing changed since he joined them ;)
2016-08-19 08:31
#48
 | 
United States ImHybernate 
GG COACHES HAVE NO POINT ANYMORE RIP NAVI
2016-08-19 00:31
Pretty well explained to be honest, I kinda get it
2016-08-19 00:31
good. Coach can prepare some information about other teams, but he shouldn't be an IGL. It's a 5v5 game not 6v6
2016-08-19 00:32
Or worse, sometime 5 vs 6, it was so fucked up
2016-08-19 00:35
this
2016-08-19 00:52
+1
2016-08-19 07:38
ITT: Dumbasses who don't know what expound means. to explain or state (something) : to give details about (something) They didn't change their mind or anything
2016-08-19 00:32
"coaches will only be able to talk to the players during warmup, half-time breaks, and one of four 30-second timeout" and why not adding such possibility as talking with your team during a freezetime which is 15 seconds or it is only due to technological limits?
2016-08-19 00:33
The decision of eco'ing or forcing (which would take place during the 15second round start time) should be down to the players, not the coach, a coach looking in from the outside, more aware of the opposing teams economy should not be able to make a suggestion on this.
2016-08-19 00:39
#83
REZ | 
Sweden jackir 
Do you even Fucking hear yourself
2016-08-19 00:45
Yes, do you? The fact that about 7 teams can afford coaches and all the rest cant is pretty fucking bullshit and unfair to those that cant. Its pay to win bullshit in a competitive game, thats fair how?
2016-08-19 00:53
#106
REZ | 
Sweden jackir 
So we're centering a highly competetive game around t3?
2016-08-19 00:55
No, we're centering a highly competitive game around fairness. Its like imagine they bring out a new pair of headphones, these headphones can hear a pin drop at the other side of a map but they cost £40,000 each, only the top 3 teams are able to afford these, would it be fair for them to be able to use them? Competition should never be about paying for advantages.
2016-08-19 01:00
i think there's a strong argument both ways what's important is that valve sets a single standard that everyone follows in addition, there's also the goal of making pro games feel more accessible, which the minification of the coach's impact plays a part in of course you could say that for 128 tick too, but that's busines
2016-08-19 03:36
By your argument then we should have all players get paid the same amount regardless of skill level, because it is unfair that certain teams can't afford to pay to get players like Fallen or Niko or S1mple. Coaches (and analysts for that matter) are staff members just like players, if the team wants to hire 50 analysts and 20 coaches to try and get a competitive advantage, that is all fine by me because they will be spending infinitely more money on the staff then they will be making back by winning, and no person will do something like that if they aren't making money by doing it. Plus in the end they don't have any affect on the actual gameplay. They just make the players more effective. The same way that working out and training makes any athlete more effective at their sport. Most other sports are money based as well. The NFL and NHL have hard salary caps, sure, but that only applies to players. Teams can spend as much as they want on other staff and facilities. Other sports like the NBA and MLB have what are known as flexible salary caps (which basically means they are allowed to go over under certain circumstances). In the MLB they are allowed to spend as much as they want, they just pay a "luxury tax" on every $ they go over the cap.
2016-08-19 04:08
+9999 on your first paragraph The teams that can afford an IGL coach are the same teams that already have the paid advantage of the more skilled players they bought out from lesser orgs/teams. Using a coach IGL only mages a difference at the specific tier the team was already playing at. All valve has done is potentially made navi, for example, a top 8 team instead of a top 4. (Although that may be avoided because /S1mple/) Games might also become less entertaining Gj Volvo
2016-08-19 07:33
#340
REZ | 
Sweden jackir 
+1
2016-09-04 21:06
#339
REZ | 
Sweden jackir 
your making no sense, also that is impossible as the game can literally not even allow that
2016-09-04 21:06
#113
 | 
North America Medusza 
The vast majority of tier 1 and tier 2 teams have coaches, just cuz some t3 mix team of russians can't pay someone to be their coach doesn't mean that big orgs should get penalized for taking care of their team.
2016-08-19 01:02
#203
 | 
Portugal mrsc 
its actually the other way around. just cause tier1 and 2 teams have coaches doesnt mean that small orgs should be penalized for not being able to afford them. there fixed it for you
2016-08-19 03:18
#217
 | 
Estonia swag420weed 
But, who the fk cares about tier 3 bots?
2016-08-19 03:37
#224
 | 
Portugal mrsc 
its about making the game as fair as possible eventually resulting in a more competitive game
2016-08-19 04:26
Tier 3 teams, or more specifically their orgs, couldn't afford better players, which is by far and away a higher priority than a coach. They're already screwed from the get go, so why Nerf the teams who've bought and contracted the better players? The skill gap is already massive between these teams and those with the possible advantage of a coach igl. Taking away coach igl doesn't close the gap at all, it just potentially increases the divide between the top 8. It makes it /less fucking fair in actual scenarios/
2016-08-19 07:42
#271
 | 
United Kingdom jMz86 
This makes absolutely no sense what so ever. In terms of skill there are going to be those who are more talented, granted but skill is something that can be worked on and evened out with strategy and practice. Adding in a coach as a 6th "player', as I have said from the very first time I seen it, is fucking retarded. If the team can't win using the 5 players in game, then they are not good enough, why allow them the advantage of a 6th "player". Coaching should be coaching, a prime example would be Tennis, the coach isn't allowed to give tips/communicate strategy to the player whilst they are on the court. The reason being is it is the participants who are playing the game should be the ones making the decisions.
2016-08-19 11:48
I do agree that coaches needed to be reigned in a bit, however I think this was a bit too much. Most sports allow communication between the coaching staff and players during the game, which personally I think is fine. I do agree though that there should be at least some independence for the players. I think coaches should be able to call a play to the players during the 15 pre-round seconds as well as during any of the time outs (only being able to talk in one of them makes the other timeouts absolutely pointless and honestly gives a huge advantage to teams without coaches). Personally I would have the timeouts be 1 per half and 1 extra for OT if a match goes into OT.
2016-08-19 19:29
#342
REZ | 
Sweden jackir 
who?!?!?!?!?! you do realise godsent got a coach (remember, basically no money made from pronax only) BASICALLY INSTANTLY? nigga that is a 1v1 fucking sport there is nothing similiar you are utterly retarded.
2016-09-04 21:10
#341
REZ | 
Sweden jackir 
yes but even if a t3 team got fallen gob b and threat they would still suck dick. because they are t3 and we never ever see them at an event.
2016-09-04 21:08
+1
2016-08-19 07:57
#55
FalleN | 
Portugal proak 
I actually totally agree with Valve on this one. CS was always played by 5 people, with different skills, now people are just getting mad fraggers and the tactical part is being left out, so players that are not so good at fragging will be locked out of the top teams. I don't think that is fair, so I support Valve on this.
2016-08-19 00:33
#85
REZ | 
Sweden jackir 
This wont change, since top teams have insane skill and shitter aredan still Fucking shitters
2016-08-19 00:46
#114
1mpala | 
Ukraine he-he  
rip Zeus
2016-08-19 01:03
I agree, but the fucked up part is where Valve let coaches become a 6th player for two years, and THEN decided they didn't want to do that any more. They should have made this decision from the beginning, before all tier 1 teams started moving their IGLs into coaching roles. This flip flopping on the issue fucked with many people's careers who couldn't have known or done anything differently to prevent it.
2016-08-19 01:06
Pretty much this +1
2016-08-19 01:51
#177
FalleN | 
Portugal proak 
But they are saying on their message that teams were telling them they were using coaches for things outside the game only, they (valve) always had this mindset, acording to their words...anyway it's a two-edged sword, teams with IGL coaches will be pretty stunned now (Na´Vi being the biggest case, and now they lost the former IGL that Zeus was), and I believe this will benefit SK the most. Like Valve says, lower teams will lower resources who don't even have a coach, will play games against 6 people. Not fair.
2016-08-19 02:03
They won't though?? Different classes of teams rarely tend to play those that are much higher or lower than they are, and even if they do the skill divide is usually large enough that it doesn't matter. This move WILL NOT see lower end teams gain any hint of an edge over those that lost their previous privilege of a coach IGL. Even if it miraculously did, we'd never know, because those teams NEVER PLAY AGAINST EACH OTHER, and upsets still happened anyway the few times they did.
2016-08-19 07:50
#343
REZ | 
Sweden jackir 
you do know not a single motherfucking player went from igl to coach right...
2016-09-04 21:13
#272
 | 
United Kingdom jMz86 
100% agree with this decision as well, I don't even think you have to justify it the way you are by talking about players being left out etc, all the justification that you need is that the game is 5v5, therefore their should only be 10 players communicating whilst the game is being played.
2016-08-19 11:51
Just dumb
2016-08-19 00:33
They are right, its a good thing what they did, teams even asking for MORE coaching game access pushed the things over the top and I am really glad, that valve stopped it. Reddit circlejerked like mad fucks over this, but this is a right decision for CS.
2016-08-19 00:33
Haha stfu trained riot monkey, just just echo valves argumentd like they pay you for it
2016-08-19 01:02
Nice try smithzz's dick sucker
2016-08-19 01:03
#218
 | 
Estonia swag420weed 
Coaches should have their own monitors. Fk volvo
2016-08-19 03:39
CS was always meant to be played at 5 not 6, nice try.
2016-08-19 00:33
#60
NiKo | 
Canada dobs 
wow volvo did nothing
2016-08-19 00:33
#61
 | 
United States sayNt 
so fkin stupid...imagine if FIFA or FIBA put in this rule saying no managers or head coaches. Ridiculous.
2016-08-19 00:34
#72
 | 
Turkey powergs 
its nothing like that fat burger.Neither football or basketball players has headphones their ears
2016-08-19 00:39
#103
 | 
United States sayNt 
Basketball coaches literally can yell at his or her players in the middle of gameplay. Same with football. Also, American Football, the offensive coordinator has a headphone connected with the quarter back
2016-08-19 00:53
#134
 | 
Germany szily 
Never saw or heard that a coach is telling the quarterback after the C snapped the ball that he has to throw the ball to Player X! ;) That's the difference in this case mate.
2016-08-19 01:17
#137
 | 
United States sayNt 
1) I didn't even say American Football 2) If a coach in football had to think for a QB and tell him where to throw, by the time the QB processes what he just heard, he'd get sacked. Football plays are 5 seconds long. Coaches telling him where to throw would be pointless. Your example is like if an entry fragger was flashed into a site, and there appears two CTs on his screen, and a coach told him "Shoot the guy in back of site!"...he'd get killed instead of being able to think for himself. Stupid analogy.
2016-08-19 01:21
#160
 | 
South Africa kHYRR73 
mate, you did say "American Football" :)
2016-08-19 01:49
#192
 | 
United States sayNt 
I thought he was talking about my first comment when I said fifa and fiba, reffering to the first football
2016-08-19 02:40
this is not how cs igl coaching works. an igl coach isnt spending his time micromanaging his players
2016-08-19 13:44
#196
 | 
Turkey powergs 
Its not same man in basketball yes coach yelling his players from bench but he is most of all just energy/motivation shit.I mean like pas pas pas go go go etc. and ever player can hear him right.In cs go coach see all 5 player he set a plan then try to execute and this kills teamplay in my opinion.I mean it became like coaches playing chest or something. In general in the game nobody should support or directrd by outside from game valve decision pretty good
2016-08-19 02:53
#208
 | 
United States sayNt 
same in basketball. coach sees the whole floor, teams have 5 player sets and plays that he or other players can call.
2016-08-19 03:27
Coaching in CS:GO is very similar to NFL though. Most of the elite level QBs (Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, etc.) call the plays themselves (or at least audible (or change) between plays before the snap), while the Offensive Coordinator or Head Coach usually calls the plays for lesser skilled QBs. These QBs usually are not allowed to audible much. As for CS:GO the great IGLs of the world (Fallen, Pronax, etc.) call most of the plays themselves while teams with not as good IGLs or no IGL (NaVi, Mousesports, NIP) usually let the coaches do a lot if not all of the playcalling. Personally I think Strat-calling pre-round is fine for coaches, however I do agree that mid-round strat-calling and economy managing should be removed.
2016-08-19 03:30
Brady doesn't call his own plays. Manning was basically the last quarterback to call his own plays. His offensive coordinator gave suggestions though
2016-08-19 19:06
Brady might not call the play, but the coaches give him the option to audible out of a play whenever he deems fit.
2016-08-19 19:08
That's like for every quarterback. They are usually give 2 plays if they don't like the look they change to the other one
2016-08-19 19:27
Coach intervention is unfair to teams which cannot afford it (which happens to be most teams) and, as valve explained is taking away a key skill from players, the move to out pronax and bring in dennis would never have been seen pre-coach era because pronax's IGL skills more than madeup for his lack of fragging power. In a scenario in which the top of CS is dominated by fraggers backed by a strong coach (which is what fnatic did and NaVi just tried to) then the position of IGL would largely die because what semi pro/up and coming talent would want to spend all their time training to be an ingame leader when at the top level that position is useless. Also if Cs:Go became the game of insane aimers with no other depth than being able to do what they are told it would no longer be the most competitive FPS in history, it would be Cod with a steeper learning curve.
2016-08-19 00:47
You are stupid little burger. If FIFA had the same rule like CSGO prior to this valve intervention, we would have players with headphones in their ears and mourinho giving calls like "Ronaldo, fucking pass 30° right, benzema is running free" all the time. In Football (the thing you call soccer) coaches can only either shout loud (which still is not loud enough to fight all the fans in the stadium) or he has to talk to a player who ran to the coaches zone (which the coach cant leave) and talk there in "private"... while the game continues! If so, valve pushed the game more to be like FIFAs game. And head coaches are also needed for analysing enemies, training the players and setting up your start formation. Thats still jobs CSGO coaches can do.
2016-08-19 00:52
#105
 | 
United States sayNt 
you didnt address basketball at all tho...nt
2016-08-19 00:55
You adressed Fifa, I told you american, who knows nothing about that very game, how it is there. Now lets go to basketball, a sport, nobody plays here in EU: No headphones, no GoPros on players head so the coach sees their info, no secret informations from coach to player the enemy cant hear. When the coach shouts something to his players, like do this, make that, watch this guy, the enemy team cant listen. If you want to be like basketball, fine, let the other CS:GO team hear what the coach tells his team.
2016-08-19 00:57
#125
 | 
United States sayNt 
ROFL I refferenced FIFA, the world organization for football/soccer, but I'm being a close-minded American even though I didn't call it soccer. Noice. A sport nobody plays in EU? Have you watched the Olympics at all? See info? The Coach can see everything at once. Mind you, there's like 5 coaches on the bench. That's 10 eyes gathering 5 different pieces of information at once. Secret information from coach to player the enemy cant hear? Do you realize that teams in basketball have codenames for playcalls? There is a lot of secrecy in Basketball coaching, just as much as there is in CSGO. nt
2016-08-19 01:11
#165
 | 
South Africa kHYRR73 
you will soon have mics and headsets in football, just wait... football is a bit slow with upgrades, still UEFA has no goal detection system ffs :D Just like in NFL, there will be mics and earphones :)
2016-08-19 01:51
There wouldn't be much point to it in (real) Football, it isn't like teams have set plays that they execute like in the NFL. Plus in the NFL only 1 player per side gets a headset. If they had that in (real) Football then someone (probably a mid-fielder) would have to run around the field to tell everyone what the strategy is.
2016-08-19 03:36
Uh the middle linebacker or strong safety usually has the responsibility o telling everyone on defense what the play is. They usually use hand sign's / signals though. The quarterback gets the play on offense and he tells everyone in the huddle. If he audibles it's usually with a hand sign or shout. But usually hand signals bc shouting is unreliable in a loud stadium
2016-08-19 19:11
Real Football = Soccer (as the americans call it). My point was that headsets wouldn't be very effective in Soccer.
2016-08-19 19:14
If FIFA had headsets not much would change, 99% of Pro level Football players would be able to notice an open man. Also by the time that a coach got all that out then the guy that was open would probably no longer be open. The only time a headset would have relative use would be for when there was a stoppage in play (throw-ins, corner kicks, free kicks, penalty kicks). Then the coach would be able to give some strategy to the players. On a similar note in the NFL 1 player on each side gets a headset, but it is almost exclusively used pre-snap because the NFL is way too fast paced for it to be useful during the play. Personally I think the same thing should be true in CS:GO. Give the coaches the 15 pre-round seconds to give a strategy to the players if they want, and then let the players go on their own. I think pre-round strating for a team is fine, however I completely agree that economy managing and mid-round strating is too much.
2016-08-19 03:49
Sure only allow coaches to talk during buying time
2016-08-19 19:13
#252
 | 
Poland Mannix 
you can't compare this to any other sport and you want to know why? I don't know any sport that some teams have coach and some don't if you know some tell me (team based sports). The problem was that some teams had huge advantage over those w/o a coach. I know you will say SK is the best and they don't have a coach but that just proves my point and coach igl isn't really needed. I think that new rule isn't perfect solution either btw.
2016-08-19 08:36
#260
 | 
United States sayNt 
its not needed but its available. and teams who do not have a coach CHOOSE not to have a coach. that's on each individual team, not the pro scene as a whole.
2016-08-19 10:05
#273
 | 
United Kingdom jMz86 
I will support your argument bro, Tennis is a sport where other players don't always have a coach........ and in Tennis the coach isn't allowed to communicate with the player whilst they are on the court, similar to how CS:GO will be.
2016-08-19 12:25
The reason this is the case is that the sport is developing. My guess is that any other sport (like Football (American and Soccer), Baskeball, etc.) did not have coaches to start. Eventually players who retired decided to use their experience to help newer players and thus coaching was born. I guarantee you that these teams did not all get coaches at the same time. Also It isn't like SK is the only team with a coach. Of the 16 major teams Flipsid3 and G2 are the only 2 teams that didn't have a coach. And while G2 did do poorly they have won tournaments recently and are a top 3 team in the world. As for Flipsid3 they upset NIP a team with supposedly one of the 3 best coaches in the world. If coaching gives an unfair advantage, then surely NIP would have crushed Flipsid3.
2016-08-19 19:50
Oh go fuck yourself valve you are ruining this game by developing it. I hope the teams dont pussy out and actually riot or demand coaches to talk in game otherwise I lose all respect and hope for both the players and this game.
2016-08-19 00:34
Bye then.
2016-08-19 01:07
#138
 | 
United States sayNt 
This. Also, a lot of top tier players are having a meeting about this today.
2016-08-19 01:23
#166
 | 
South Africa kHYRR73 
You may get respect for such statement tho ;)
2016-08-19 01:52
#190
 | 
Greece hekzy 
Having a coach in this game is basically like having a second consciousness, it's not how it's supposed to be or how it is in amy other sport/esport. Valve is completely right. They are raising the skill ceiling and the whole "brainless squad of 5 being commanded by one person like an RTS game" is just wrong.
2016-08-19 02:35
+1, but new shitkids won't understand that.
2016-08-19 03:35
valve is right pro players are wrong and lazy cause they dont want to work more
2016-08-19 00:34
expound?
2016-08-19 00:35
present and explain (a theory or idea) systematically and in detail
2016-08-19 00:53
thought he spellt expand wrong mb mb
2016-08-19 00:53
#66
Snax | 
Poland Mval 
thats good
2016-08-19 00:35
#67
 | 
Czech Republic MrM4sl0 
Long shit about nothing. useless to read
2016-08-19 00:35
sounds quite reasonable
2016-08-19 00:38
Lol :)
2016-08-19 00:39
Well, realistically speaking thats how its been back in all those years 1.0, 1.5, 1.6 etc.........., so............but ya, i think having the 6th guy IGL is great so taht all 5 players in server could concentrate on shooting etc.... mmmmm
2016-08-19 00:39
Hated this new CSGO patch,they nerfed the coaches and buffed the timeouts
2016-08-19 00:39
so what does that mean
2016-08-19 00:41
#90
REZ | 
Sweden jackir 
That hltv likes when less tactics and only want fragmovies Also valve is riot = shit
2016-08-19 00:48
#101
 | 
Brazil Collee 
+1
2016-08-19 00:53
No, it just raises the skill ceiling for all the 5 players, suddenly having to think again.
2016-08-19 12:35
#338
REZ | 
Sweden jackir 
no it dosent. it takes away because instead of focusing on playing they have to think about the strats too. also, you don't want better for the teams u want more oddshots.
2016-09-04 21:04
Im gonna explain this so even people with froglevel brain will understand. Imagine if you have these bars 1. Movement/Placement 2. Aim/Spraycontrol 3. Gamesence With a coach you suddenly doesnt have the same need of a player with really good gamesence since you got the coach that thinks for you and makes the calls. Thus you can focus on 1-2. Without the coach you still need the 3rd. So.. higher skill ceiling for a 5 man squad. Wasnt that hard was it.
2016-09-04 21:29
#347
REZ | 
Sweden jackir 
no it does not work like that, no coach will ever call for a pro in a 1vx clutch, and why are we against higher skill ceilings now again
2016-09-07 09:46
dont bother reading, they just repeated what they said before
2016-08-19 00:41
#81
 | 
Brazil RisenNTC 
ty MingLee
2016-08-19 00:44
ming lee o caralho fakeflagger
2016-08-19 01:13
#200
 | 
Portugal mrsc 
haaahha
2016-08-19 03:12
Can you imagine Jason Lake back in the day listening to valve say this? Look into that man's eyes and tell him he cant say what the fuck he wants to his team. lol
2016-08-19 00:41
Jason Lake never ever called strats. He just shouted at the team (like a maniac btw. lel) to motivate them.
2016-08-19 02:39
I know he did. lol I just thought how funny it would be to see him turn that shouting elsewhere.
2016-08-19 18:32
Nice read. I love this decision from valve, it'll be amazing to go back to basics, with a further focus on the igl role for players.
2016-08-19 00:42
#82
 | 
Poland camarpl 
if this was your intention all along then why not set limits long ago, even average hltv user could predict that 'teams are, in fact, transitioning away from fielding players that have a wider breadth of skills and instead relying on coaches' why csgo devs could not predict it aswell? no brain?
2016-08-19 00:45
#93
REZ | 
Sweden jackir 
This has always been the case, and The best team, sk, is directly contradicting what valve is saying, Also they wanna make the game 4v4
2016-08-19 00:50
+1 valve
2016-08-19 00:47
#89
Canada pokz 
tldr; plz?
2016-08-19 00:48
Valve did the right thing.
2016-08-19 01:11
what was the right thing?
2016-08-19 01:16
Making it impossible for coaches to talk with thier players all the time.
2016-08-19 01:17
#91
gAuLeS | 
Brazil Rapha23 
who cares? SK doesnt need a coach anymore!!
2016-08-19 00:49
oh man don't say that.. a lot of teams need coaches, it's unfair mentira, que os gringo se fodam tudo, aqui é sk caralho
2016-08-19 01:07
thats right man, its br time
2016-08-19 01:15
Liars
2016-08-19 00:49
#95
kNgV- | 
Brazil vicTHOR 
Tnks god we have fallen and cold to call
2016-08-19 00:52
The undisputed best team in the world getting even further ahead. I really like the changes, obviously it really sucks for every coach IGL based teams, but for once i agree with valve 100%
2016-08-19 00:52
#98
 | 
Portugal dracø 
"On August 8th an event organizer forwarded us an email from a coach, representing some top teams, stating that the status-quo was no longer acceptable and that they insisted on more in-game access for coaches during their events." SOMEONE FUCKED UP BIG TIME
2016-08-19 00:52
waiting for someone to mention this, some dick head coach got greedy and wanted more ingame power?? what more could be possibly want? see where the enemy teams locations were?? lmao
2016-08-19 01:46
#214
 | 
Portugal dracø 
yeah I don't get it either. The only team left was to be able to press E and play for one of their players.. it was all working out great, they had to try to get more and ended up fucking it all for everyone
2016-08-19 03:35
indeed, I can imagine alot of pro teams are gonna be pissed at this dude and will probably wanna find out what type of "power" he wanted that he cost them a shit ton of money.
2016-08-19 12:40
probably was peacemaker
2016-08-19 03:19
RIP all those coaches who got hired to ghost for their team via audience members.
2016-08-19 00:53
#107
roman | 
Palestine ndr[o] 
I like and welcome this stance :)
2016-08-19 00:56
#109
 | 
Denmark Arize 
Valve: "Pls dont spam our email" CSGOTeamFeedback@valvesoftware.com CSGOTeamFeedback@valvesoftware.com CSGOTeamFeedback@valvesoftware.com
2016-08-19 00:58
They made a decision you don't like and now you want to act like a spoiled brat because of it? Grow up.
2016-08-19 01:06
#116
 | 
Germany Bennime 
nice to see that some people agree with what valve said. i think its a good idea, 15 years set roles and the most important was the igl. The IGL was always a big part of the game and shouldnt just vanish away.
2016-08-19 01:04
You are totally right. All the great IGLs are totally replaceable with a coach, right? Oh wait, lets look at the best team in the world: SK Gaming is the best in the world, they should totally remove fallen and move him to a coaching role - they could just pick up a guy with more skill. Oooooooh wait. FalleN is irreplaceable, because he is a complete player. FalleN puts the "IGLs are under too much pressure to perform" to rest. Coaches who replace IGLs are simply a sign of an increase of competition, which doesnt allow a player who can ingamelead but not anything else to stay on a top team. Valve wants a game which requires a bigger skill ser, but they just handed retards who cant do anything but ingamelead a key role on top teams. What a great decision. DHW '13 was so exciting, lets watch CSGO on a low level again. Or well, SK Gaming will still destroy, but fuck the rest, right?
2016-08-19 01:46
VOLVO PLS
2016-08-19 01:08
I actually think valve did the right thing.
2016-08-19 01:12
#129
 | 
Brazil BuddyINSANE 
WHATTTT?!?!?!
2016-08-19 01:14
Good decision, anyone that disagrees has no clue about the game.
2016-08-19 01:15
+1
2016-08-19 01:38
+2
2016-08-19 02:44
#220
 | 
Portugal dracø 
Even if you consider this a good decision (I won't bother arguing this as it is all theoretical for now and we'd get no where), the timing on this is utterly retarded. Teams had a ~1 month break and as it is about to end valve simply come out and say "you know what? I noticed some changes were made in most of the teams, let me just drop this here".
2016-08-19 03:45
Yeah i agree with that, the timing is bad.
2016-08-19 13:53
I think the timing actually is of importance here. They were brought forward a side they never wanted to rise. I've watched how 'coaching' was being expanded aggressively and teams integrated to the new resource available. I also think Valve never wanted coaches to do more than coaching, but it somehow slipped when they started midround managering and IGLing. So now Valve destroyed all the teams that made reliant on something that wasn't prior 'agreed' to be coaches job, it just got out of hands slowly and it was time to slap some wrists to make sense back. Sure they could had announced it earlier, but they surely thought about it not being as bad as it was while all the insightful knew about the current situation being way beyond the point of 'just coaching'. So... you trained on something that is borderline crossing the line? Too bad, you get burned for it. Like doping... your whole team who practiced with you have to get a sub...
2016-08-19 19:27
#136
 | 
Turkey FeverSpeed 
Can I get a TLDR
2016-08-19 01:21
Yes
2016-08-19 18:30
Valve is a joke. You realize every professional sport uses a coach who calls plays for the players and isnt considered a member of the roster.
2016-08-19 01:24
#159
 | 
Paraguay HighAIching 
you don't see the coach running after the players during a basketball game and telling them how to play, do you?
2016-08-19 01:49
you never watch basketball? coaches always screaming at players during plays. for example telling a player to taking a foul.
2016-08-19 02:16
That is by far the stupidest comparison ive ever seen in my entire life
2016-08-19 03:21
I'm surprised that Valve haven't come down on this before now. In Dota 2 this have been specifically outlawed since the beginning
2016-08-19 01:25
nice move Gaben
2016-08-19 01:30
#143
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Denmark beastd 
go spam valve mail guys, gogogo
2016-08-19 01:31
#144
 | 
Spain akproxx 
valve talking about skill xdddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd
2016-08-19 01:35
Nice Valve, nice elaboration. You guys just once again confirmed the speculations that your CS departement is run by 3 guys, who never does anything but play dota. "Championships are won by 5 players", what an amazing termonolgy. You are literally saying that coaches arent a part of the winning team, that they are simply being as influencial as the people handing them Res Bull before a match. Discrediting coaches, while expecting being seen as a sport? Well okay then. No coach in football e.g. has ever impacted a team, right? He is just some guy who hands out waterbottles during halftime. Nice going retards, just fucking say it. Tell us that the only game that matters is dota2. Sell the game to someone who cares, for the love of god.
2016-08-19 01:36
but in which sport do coaches have a direct line to an earpiece on the plaýers playing?
2016-08-19 01:41
Cycling?
2016-08-19 01:48
:D not the best sport to mimic Edit: But i guess :D I'm not a fan of traditional sports, but i don't see it happening in football, tennis, mma, most instructions are in breaks, or through yelling mid game, which for obvious reasons wont work at lan :D
2016-08-19 01:49
A coach in football can communicate with their players all game, and they do so as well. They either yell what he wants from them, or he calls a player to the sidelines. A coach has unlimited impact during the game in most sports.
2016-08-19 01:56
CS coaches should be (and have historically always been) there to: 1. Prepare with the team for the upcoming matches. Analysis of replays, discuss different plays and changes, and so on. 2. Do all the organisation stuff. Especially provide the best possible practice for the team. 3. Keep the motivation up and the team calm during the matches. CS coaches are NOT in-game leader and should never be allowed to.
2016-08-19 01:57
Why shouldnt they? They are allowed to in real sports, why shouldnt they be allowed to in CS? All they are doing is removing players who shouldnt be on a pro team if they cant earn their spot anyways.
2016-08-19 02:02
First of all: In most sports they aren't. Do you actually believe the shit-show some football coaches pull off on the side-line during the match is anything more than just a show and perhaps a slight motivational boost for the team? The coach's main work is what he's doing before the match, during the half-time and after the match. Second of all: One comment below I explained why they shoudn't be allowed in CS. "All they are doing is removing players who shouldnt be on a pro team if they cant earn their spot anyways." What?
2016-08-19 02:08
Ex6 is a great example of a player that may become relevant again, now that his role is being forced upon the pro teams. He dropped to t3 with coaches ingameleading and could make a comeback to t1, but I guess that doesnt make the overall level drop,, right bro? :-) And it doesnt surprise me that you dont follow football yet talk like you do. Most coaches impact the game constantly at top level, look at L. Enrique etc. Its time to go to sleep bro ;-)
2016-08-19 02:16
A top IGL also needs a certain level of individual playing skills, Ex6 was always lackluster in that department and while his IGL skills will now become a lot more important, I'm not sure if they will really make up for the lack of other qualities. But they could, and no, the overall level will not drop, it increases. If you see now a brilliant tactical play, you know how hard it was to get that call done and you will appreciate it a lot more than before when it was most likely a call from a guy outside the game who had a perfect overview and no pressure on himself.
2016-08-19 02:27
Valve is killing CS right now. Pro teams are fucked. Usual players are fucked. Even new players are fucked. GJ Valve! SeemsBad
2016-08-19 01:40
This is actually the first time since about 100 years that Valve made a great decision (concerning competitive CS). All the people crying "buhu this ruins CS". No it does not! For over 13 years we had great competitive CS without a coach calling strats and making gameplay-decisions. There's a reason why it's called "in-game leader". One of the great things about CS was that you couldn't just field the 5 best aimers and win everything, you always needed 5 players that are well balanced in terms of their different skills and add up greatly. And one major role was the one of the IGL, it takes massive skills to play the game at a high level while reading the game perfectly, keeping calm and making great calls. If you just allow a 6. player to make the calls and keep up with the economy (who has no pressure on himself because he isn't actively playing), you take an important part away from the game. CS:GO is already dumbed down enough, we certainly do not also need to lose the role of an IGL. I miss the times when a great IGL meant A LOT for the team (even more than having the best aimer on your team) and some people became absolute legends for their skills as IGL.
2016-08-19 01:46
Yes, it was great for 13 years, then the meta updated and the average level of topteams went up. Prime 1.6 NaVi vs prime CSGO SK would not be a close match. SK would destroy them conpletely. I fucking hate people who think the game doesnt evolve and sets for new metas. You clearly dont understand how things work. The fact that IGLs can be replaced by a coach just proves the coach isnt a complete player, and can only really contribute with ingameleading. Valve wants pros with a higher skillset, but they still force retards who cant do anything but ONE THING in the game irreplaceable now. Youre right, its great for CS, time to take a step back skillwise. NiP might be great again.
2016-08-19 01:54
Is that your only argument? That bad fragging IGLs are irreplaceable now? lmao
2016-08-19 01:58
its valve's own argument? By saying coaches are making it unfair and impossible for t2 teams to break through, because they have a fifth player who cant frag and lead and they dont have the resources to get a proper coach?
2016-08-19 02:09
Except they only said it's unfair for teams without resources, i don't see them mentioning IGLs who can't frag. And the game "evolving" and "sets for new metas", what the fuck are you even talking about lmao, the tactical side of the game has been relatively the same for a long time.
2016-08-19 14:00
", then the meta updated and the average level of topteams went up." I'm sorry, but I can't even take your seriously after that first sentence. "The fact that IGLs can be replaced by a coach just proves the coach isnt a complete player, and can only really contribute with ingameleading." Why the fuck would a coach be a "complete player"? He is NOT a player and was never meant to be. "Valve wants pros with a higher skillset, but they still force retards who cant do anything but ONE THING in the game irreplaceable now." No, it's the other way around. Now you need a wider skill-set within your 5 men team, not a smaller one. To compete at the very top, you need a guy that plays at the highest level AND has extremely good in-game leader qualities.
2016-08-19 02:03
You dont understand because you started watching CS in 2014, and you think youre an expert by now. Coaches made up for what some players lacked. Removing their help now makes the level of some players go down, and that will make the overall level drop. Thats just common sense. But yeah, preach that 2014 knowledge bro. :-)
2016-08-19 02:13
I've started watching CS in 2001 (when you were 8). But nice try. "Coaches made up for what some players lacked." Yes, and that should have never happened. "Removing their help now makes the level of some players go down" That's their own fault. If the opponent's 5-men-team has a more complete skill-set, they also deserve to benefit from it. Right now, great IGL have been left out because the team could have just picked up a slightly better individual player and used a coach as IGL. Fortunately not all teams went that cheap way, and the ones that did will now have to deal with the consequences.
2016-08-19 02:19
#195
 | 
Greece hekzy 
If they lacked something, then they are shit. They don't deserve a second consiousness. Might as well get 5 coaches, one for each player, and act as a second consciousness, then you get plauers who can only aim (incomplete players) and THAT will make the overall skill level drop.
2016-08-19 02:50
Did you ever have a coach for any sport, because that's not how they fucking work, they're not telepaths xD
2016-08-19 13:53
#291
 | 
Greece hekzy 
Well, that was my point. In real sports they can't communicate telepathically and they certainly don't communicate with mics. In CSGO they use mics and it's like they communicate telepathically and the result is the player playing with 2 brains.
2016-08-19 14:44
So, when someone talks to you, you magically think what he thinks, kid verbal communication doesn't work that way... You also have 0 clue on how coaches influence their team in real sports. In fast paced sports that could be comparable to cs (Ice Hockey, Handball, Basketball, Water polo) the coach can both communicate with the team all game long with hand signs and also talk to his individual players every 5 minutes or so due to many swaps (comparable with the end of rounds). I think valve is only doinng this move because they think it would be cool to emulate "coach timeouts" with these bullshit 30 second brakes
2016-08-19 15:01
#300
 | 
Greece hekzy 
Ok, you are fucking retarded, firstly: #203 Let's take the biggest and best sport for an example, football. The coach CAN'T micromanage other players because they can't communicate with the other players (and don't say garbage things like they could shout because you can't shout against a whole stadium to a player 100 meters away). And nor do hand symbols count you fucking retard because they are not as direct as vocal commands (which can't be given, unlike in csgo). In csgo, you can have the coach completely micromanage you and share info greatly between the players, basically a guy telling you what you should and the only thing you have left to focus on is aiming. I meant telepathically in comparison to real sports where they don't have mics to speak to the players and the only way that they would communicate with them would be through telepathy (which obviously doesn't happen). I didn't say they need to communicate telepathically since with they have the mics from which the coach can perfectly pass his thoughts to the player (never happens in any sport). So yeah, it's like having a second consciousness.
2016-08-19 18:22
Small teams can't afford a coach....really dude? So why does every tier 12345 team in FaciIt 2v2 ladder have one? In football coaches don't really need to micro manage single players, since they don't have enough overview on the game that it would be important for them to be able to communicate with everyone in seconds. Even if they could micro manage, it would not make that much of a difference since the sport is much slower than cs. Football is a bad example to compare to cs since a coach getting the team-captain to run to him, tell him something a player should change, the captain then running to the player and telling him about it is as much "cs time" as a single mid round call. A much better sport to compare cs to, would be Basketball. The game is structured in offense/defense and both teams have multiple sets for offense and defense as well as a coach and a captain who call the sets. An important fact: even though they don't have head-sets to do it every player is at least able to consult the coach at any time mid game, or when they're swapped out (which happens often). What valve wants to limit coach communication to is what Basketball coaches get on top of that: timeouts and brakes. The final arguments would be: pro's seem to hate the change, why go against their will if coaches in cs don't seem to be important for success: remember SK and Fallen/cold, or VP and Taz. They (SK/VP) are structured like Basketball teams, the captains CAN consult the coach, but only do it if shit hits the fan. At least that's my impression and I always read/watch interviews.
2016-08-19 22:44
#320
 | 
Greece hekzy 
So we basically agree? It's just that the lazy pros disagree? Right? Sorry for calling you a retard btw.
2016-08-20 00:31
Nah, coaches in cs are something good, and they should have kept the ruling of the last 2 years. My point is: a coach being able to always give information to the team isn't nearly as important as you think (2/3 of the top 3 teams don't rely on them at all, they have them because they can). Limiting the coaches against the will of the pros, who know the most about the way coaches impact the game is outright stupid, who has more insight on competitive cs:go, the morons at valve or the acctual players. Remember valve are the same people who changed the round-time without any real explaination, (something that was worked on for the first years of competitive cs, then agreed upon by almost everyone to be 1:45/0:30, they effectively KILLED fakes in competitive) tried to intruduce a fkn deathcam to cs:go, and designed both the r8 and the cz. Remember when they put Cobble and Overpass, two totally immature maps into the active duty pool? Remember that they banned ibp while VP are still playing? And you really call the pros, the most hard-working people related with cs "lazy" and back up valves desicion? Shame on you man...
2016-08-20 11:54
#323
 | 
Greece hekzy 
I know Valve has done some crazy shit dude (you forgot the addition of nuke, the worst re-itteration of an awesome map to the active pool). But this time they are right, they are raising the bar for the skillsets a good team needs. Have a problem with tactics? Call a coach. Have a problem with antistratting? Call a coach. Have a problem with coms as a team? Call a coach. Have a problem with midround calls? Call a coach. Unfortunately, having six players means that the game is less demanding for the fielding five, and that's just not in the spirit of this game. Not to mention the total extinction of IGLs.
2016-08-20 12:01
The total extinction of IGL's? dude, yet again, this years big tournaments were all won by IGL teams that figured their shit out (NIP/SK/VP/Immortals had felps calling when they won). The dying of big IGL names in the best teams was only a trend, most of those teams didn't move the IGL to their coaches but to different players, and the only teams that profited of the desicion were G2 and fnatic for a limited timespan. Only 3 out of the top 10 teams (mouz, Na'Vi, Liquid) have a coach that really is an IGL. You really think that "calling a coach mid-game because your tactics don't work" is a thing when top 5 teams in Major semifinals don't even use their tactical timeout before it's too late????? The game is not less demanding for the remaining five players, but only for the one out of those five players that even gave calls to begin with xD At this point you're just being ridiculus and not bringing up any new arguments. I understand that you just don't like coaches, but trusting valve when they say that coaches did really have a big enough impact on the level of competitive play that the need to limit them is given is stupid if you look at the facts.
2016-08-20 12:33
#325
 | 
Greece hekzy 
Ok, you are obviously clueless. Literally 3/4 teams ypu called out have vaguely to no ingame leadership. NiP - Xizt no longer IGLs, tHREAT does VP - Vaguely have an IGL since they always pass the role around with the only stable leading figure being Kuben IMT - they literally have no IGL, they had zews and then peace_maker and now zakk. They are one of the teams that rely the MOST on coaches, so that was a stupid statement on your part. (They literally were horrible whenever they missed a coach, prime example of how a team can go from zero to hero and for my arguement) The game is less demanding since communicating your i fo is also a skillset people work on and can be taken over by the coach. And the man that calls can also be replaced. I have no arguements because you are not reading my arguements. Please stop talking you literally melted my eyes when you mentioned NiP and Immortals, literally cluelessness at a whole different level.
2016-08-20 12:47
IMT-->felps WAS the only IGl at Dreamhack Summer when they won, 100% the commentator (idk who) always mentioned how he still puts up big numbers despite being IGL. VP still always have set ingame leaders, Taz being the one who calls most of the time (until the team gets annoyed of his calls), I think I read that NEO was IGL when they won e-league. The only thing about VP that I never read was that Kuben calls anthing. Yep mentioning NIP was stupid af, but the only stupid thing I wrote compared to the book of stupid Quotes you produced for this thread
2016-08-20 13:03
#328
 | 
Greece hekzy 
Anybody can be named IGL, that does not mean they do IGL. When they won Dreamhack summer they had zakk. I'd like you to mention my stupid quotes please. Yeah..
2016-08-20 13:17
"Small teams can't afford a coach" "cs pros are lazy" "In CSGO they use mics and it's like they communicate telepathically and the result is the player playing with 2 brains." " Have a problem with tactics? Call a coach. Have a problem with antistratting? Call a coach. Have a problem with coms as a team? Call a coach. Have a problem with midround calls? Call a coach. "
2016-08-20 13:42
You praise coaches like TV addvertising praises some shitty placebo medicine
2016-08-20 13:43
#331
 | 
Greece hekzy 
Second part is just spot on. I'm sorry if you disagree. I even explained you that i said telepathically in order to compare the use kf mic and direct and verbal orders in CSGO which could only be accomplished in real sports with the use lf telepathy. Fucking idiot. Yes, having another person above you telling you what to do is like having a second brain which does all the ingame decisions for you. Fucking idiot. Csgo pros are lazy af, look at EnVy and all the NA teams. Do you know how much people work in other esports and sports? No? Then stop being a clueless idiot with a big mouth. Some players in CSGO get paid so much and they barely put any practice in the game, or team practice. Small teams can't afford coaches you fucking retarded imbecile, it's a 6th salary ypu fucking idiot. Are you completely fucking retarded or what? Some orgs barely have money to pay 5 players, you think they have mpney for 6? Kys. Stop embarassing your stupid ass, PLEASE.
2016-08-20 13:51
Yes SOME cs:go pros are lazy, but we don't know how much time they acctually put into the game when everyone has multiple accounts or private accounts, we can just guess by looking at their steam groups. Coaches employed by teams that are not in the top 20 are often not even payed a part time salary, at least that's what I read. The only real problem is getting them to the LAN which is really an additional 1/5 of the price. But orgs that barely have money for 5 players also won't be able to get those to fly to big LANs Again the 2nd brain argument is bullshit, having someone constantly talk to you midround is merely distracting from the game, no coach would talk much mid-round, think about mm, do you want someone to constantly talk to you, while you know exactly what you should be doing? and even if you are about to make a mistake that could be corrected by a call: you still have 4 teammates that will probably notice
2016-08-21 13:22
Seems like you're the one that started watching in 2014, talking about meta and shit, this isn't LoL or dota lmao
2016-08-19 13:52
The SK/Na'Vi comparison doesn't make any sense, both of the teams have real IGLS Also the "hurrdurr cs always had the same competitive level for 13 years VBUT THEN when teams got a guy that sits in the background telling them the strat CS TEAMS SUDDENLY GOT SOOO MUCH MORE SKILLED" thing can't really be proven. The fact that Fallen (with cold sometimes) is still igl destroys valves whole argumentation.
2016-08-19 14:05
+1. I don't see any proper downsides to this decision. Everyone is comparing coaches in real sports but they don't have non-stop comms with their players, it's usually just half-time talk or yelling to a few players on the field and that's it.
2016-08-19 01:56
CsGO Manager bhaha ha ha ha hA hA hA hA H a
2016-08-19 01:47
Valve take so many shit decisions in 2k16... CSGO running to the ruine.
2016-08-19 02:00
its funny everyone goes mental abt a coach thingy while proper anti cheat measures are completely forgotten. We should not forget that they do jack shit abt cheat prevention on their majors. Who cares abt a coach decision?
2016-08-19 02:16
I'm quite sure Valve is concerned about the lacking anti-cheat on majors. If they introduce more advanced anti-cheat, they would announce it shortly before a major and not many months before. If they announce anything at all. That itself is no reason to not improve other aspects of the game.
2016-08-19 02:30
they haver to announce it, otherwise it will cause a scandal that will make the VACation look cute
2016-08-19 14:07
"across 6 people was not in line with our goals, one of which was to make it possible for new teams to emerge and compete at the highest levels" valve catering to silvers. competing at highest levels? LOL, highest levels would be having 5 pure aimers + a coach. 4 pure aimers and a bot is not.
2016-08-19 02:19
can valve do something use full? we dont care bout coaches, shitty sounds for smg's and pistols we care about you fixing decnt anti cheat for MM and Pro-events. Thx or csgo will die soon
2016-08-19 02:18
#197
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Sweden 4Sweeeden 
Retard Valve. /close.
2016-08-19 03:00
Rip Navi and Liquid.
2016-08-19 03:01
great now all the kids talking shit on valve are now saying "wow! good job valve, keep it up!!!!" Some of you kids are so pathetic
2016-08-19 03:09
Rip the beautiful cs. Fuck valve
2016-08-19 03:25
Seriously RIP NaVi NiP Liquid...
2016-08-19 03:29
Can someone pls buy CS from Valve?
2016-08-19 03:32
ok
2016-08-19 03:44
#223
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United States Cipher0 
Shit decision as always. gg valve
2016-08-19 04:14
I hate this game, everyone just bends over and lets valve fuck them
2016-08-19 05:25
#230
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Luxembourg alex24 
uninstall cs:go now
2016-08-19 07:18
alrdy done, and apperantly alot of others did aswell since the MLG Major steamdb.info/app/730/graphs/
2016-08-19 08:12
#247
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Luxembourg alex24 
true that... then favelas started cheating their asses and winning... cs:go is not fun anymore... but its still holiday, school begins in sept i was on holiday in july, didn`t played cs:go for at least 4 weeks, now i don`t even open the game, cuz the operation was over and i don`t want to play dust2 or office... wait untill new operation
2016-08-19 08:28
Any more excuses ? Mybe people just got fed up with valve shity game management ? i know i did.
2016-08-19 10:11
#263
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Luxembourg alex24 
maybe not... not everybody is playing for ranks or to prove something i only play casual, just to pass the time, and since i`ve been playing CS for almost 16 years, it`s still my favourite game
2016-08-19 10:21
what? i cbf reading pls explain lol
2016-08-19 07:54
jezuz valve are retarded. but hell its thier game, fuck it however you see fit.
2016-08-19 08:10
2017 will be the year of the SK sweep
2016-08-19 08:17
Cuz mm dosent have coaching so pro games shouldn't have coaches either LUL 4Head EleGiggle
2016-08-19 08:21
Even though it is potentially damaging for the team I'm cheering for, I have to admit this is right thing to do, imho. From my point of view, CS is the most tactic-based team sport out there, so allowing the coach to handle the tactic during the round is effectively making coach an additional player, although the game was intended to be 5x5. But to be short I don't think it will impede Na'Vi's ability to remain in top5 or ability to eventually win the major; starix will only need to adapt to the new reality asap to continue to increase his value for the team
2016-08-19 08:25
#249
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United States y0rk 
I've always felt this way about coaches. I've no problem with teams having them, but the way they were being used was problematic.
2016-08-19 08:33
u rly valve ?
2016-08-19 08:36
"to make it possible for new teams to emerge and compete at the highest levels" Because new teams cant have coaches ? CS was already not so much of a tactical game these days, now official games will look like deathmatch. CS turning into leage of fucking legends. Actually there might be more tactic involved in leage.
2016-08-19 09:27
There is not a simple answer 'yes' or 'no'. It really depends on our goal. What do we want to achieve. If we want CSGO to evolve then coaches should be left like it was for two years. By declined their role in the game we are making it less enjoyable for viewers, especially these who has knowledge about it. Less strats and more shooting. Yes, you can say that it was like that for all the time. But first of all. 1.6 was not as tactical as CSGO. Secondly, at the beginning cs go was not at the same tactical level as it is right know. So in conlusion, by this decision Valve is making the game less tacticwise while the game itself is a tactical shooter. Right know we are going to the old days not evolving at all. There is some truth about cs becoming 6v6 instead 5v5 but like I said, everything evolves. Same as football and any other sport. As I recall even football at the beginning wasn't 11v11 not even mentioning that it had been played without red and yellow card. Argument in which people are saying that t3 or t2 teams can't afford coaches is irrelevant. So if top football team can afford more staff, better training objects etc. and lower teams who cannot then they should all equal to that lower level because it is fair? It doesn't make sense. If so. Make rules for all tiers. Get teams their real tier and then set rules like that for them. Limiting coaches can be applied to t2 while t1 teams have everything loke it was. Major will have it like t1 and if t2 team is good enough there will be no problem. It is not a solution of course. Just an idea which needs improvements so don't take it too seriously.
2016-08-19 09:30
"But first of all. 1.6 was not as tactical as CSGO." Dumbest thing I'v read in a very long time. And that says something since I almost visit HLTV daily.
2016-08-19 13:37
hltv.org/?pageid=18&threadid=1238360#r17.. CSGO is more tactical than 1.6 More ways to do plays, better smokes, molotoves. You can execute your plan in couple of different ways instead of 2. You can simply throw your nades at wider variety of angles. Just read this topic.
2016-08-19 14:09
Not to be rude, but if you actually think you were more limited in CS 1.6 when approaching a certain bomb-spot, you were just a bad 1.6 player. Sure some maps have been re-worked in a way that there are more entrances, but that often didnt increase the tactical value of the map, in fact it often even reduced it because it turned it too much into a pure death-match. Not to mention that Valve forced maps into tournaments, that aren't fitted for competitive play at all. Just alone the cramped maps with the VERY short rotation times took away so much tactical depth from CS in CS:GO. The reward of successfully baiting the enemy or reading their play is like 50% of what it was in 1.6, and retakes are so much easier in CS:GO which also reduces the value of great strategical plays. In comparison to CS 1.6 CS:GO is almost TDM. The flash grenades in 1.6 were a lot more effective and due to the bouncing behavior of them, you could pull off a lot more fancy stuff. Not to mention that there was a stacking effect on the flashing, that made them so much stronger when used with teamplay. Why am I even arguing about this...
2016-08-19 15:13
Totaly terrible desicion, why are they even making desicions on a game they dont understand and they dont care about? triggered**
2016-08-19 09:33
It's so dumb decision ... If tier 3-4 teams want to be pros they should pick up coach.
2016-08-19 09:41
IMHO Coaches should be able to input while at : tactical pause, between round end/start, halftime, map change. But it seems Valve is taking the easy route, removing coaches altogether. Sad, but expected.
2016-08-19 09:59
Well done Valve! :)
2016-08-19 10:23
Thanks for using a size 5 font on the actual valve email, but other than that, love the response and totally respect Valve's choice.
2016-08-19 10:50
RIP tactical CS, not many pronax-class players around to handle it.
2016-08-19 10:53
Bullshit as usual, n1 volvo
2016-08-19 11:06
Completely agree with this! In context of real sport, it would be the same as Mourinho putting a Man United shirt on and running round the pitch.
2016-08-19 11:10
GJ by Valve. rip NAVI GOD PRONAX
2016-08-19 11:35
so ? still shit decision
2016-08-19 12:47
FUCK VALVE seriously, when did they decide that THEY knew what was right for the cs:go community. Just about EVERY change to competitive cs THEY made sucked ass, while just about EVERY change the community suggested was a good one? And I'm not only talking about cs:go but cs in general. Without adapting to what the community wanted in the early days valve wouldn't even make a fucking Dollar in sticker money today. Ungreatful bitches. *Inseart "You made this?"....."I made dis!" meme
2016-08-19 13:47
Seriously, everyone hated the change, Valve releases a single e-mail with obvious but stupid argument, and everyone goes back to licking their balls? rly?
2016-08-19 13:49
well.... u have to understand you are dealing with weak minded people who change thier mind every time mama valve gives them attention.
2016-08-19 16:25
#286
sergej | 
Finland jUPPE! 
I like the valve decision. It's right for the spirit of the game.
2016-08-19 13:59
Imagine like in football or some other sport coach leave and return after half-time or break.Rip CS-coach
2016-08-19 14:52
Valve does not understand what to do! A normal game turned into a real sport, it's called evolution, and what makes a company called degradation!
2016-08-19 16:42
This move also hinders the evolution of new coaches / coaching in general. -infinity.
2016-08-19 17:58
i think teams need mental coaches more than ingame coaches . they lose momentum so fast its insane
2016-08-19 18:32
Coaches in most sports call plays on the fly. I dont understand why it cant be just during freeze time coaches can talk.
2016-08-19 18:34
Put the coaches in game and allow then to talk only with dead players. End of the drama. And yes, coaches can't be IGL
2016-08-19 18:48
There is still no indication what exactly is considered to be an act of communication and what exactly coaches are not allowed to do and how event organizers should technically limit coaches in their actions. Shit like this will result in unfair play occusations and rounds/games lost.
2016-08-19 19:25
As I posted in the other thread, there is NO WAY a coach can be reasonably considered a player. CS = FPS game Can the coach fire? No. Can he kill another player? No. Can he interact with in-game objects like the bomb? No. Therefore, Coach /= player. Common fucking sense.
2016-08-19 20:08
Nice
2016-08-19 21:23
Hey guys, not sure if you're interested, but I heard CS was a team game. A team of 5. 5.
2016-08-22 01:42
basketball is a game of 10 men, 5 on each side, but those men would be no one without their coaches
2016-09-04 21:15
why is this thread still going on 4th september
2016-09-04 21:21
BECAUSE YOU BUMP IT FFS
2016-09-07 09:51
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