What we learned from ESL One NY

One of the most prestigious events of the second half of 2016, ESL One New York, has come to a close and Natus Vincere have lifted the trophy. Here's what we learned from the $250,000 event.

As usual, we'll begin by recapping what happened over the last weekend for those of you who couldn't catch all the action. 

ESL One New York began with a Swiss group stage, a format which had only been used once before, at the 16-team ESL One Cologne Main Qualifier back in June. This time the event only featured eight names, so it was significantly easier to keep track of the groups.

Natus Vincere had a comfortable run through the group stage, defeating all of the eventual semi-finalists — Liquid, Virtus.pro and finally SK — on their way to first place.

Meanwhile, the Brazilians had a fair share of trouble against Astralis, but managed to secure second place over Virtus.pro comfortably after their loss to Na`Vi. At that point the Poles had a 2-2 record and faced OpTic for the semi-finals spot, which Wiktor "TaZ" Wojtas and company just barely clinched after a very scary match on Cobblestone.


What can we take away from New York?

The last semi-finalist was Liquid, who had arguably the hardest route of all teams. After defeating G2 and losing to both eventual finalists, Spencer "Hiko" Martin's team disposed of fnatic twice in a row on Dust2 in the match of two debutants.

While Peter "stanislaw" Jarguz's team, who also debuted in New York, exceeded expectations despite finishing just outside of playoffs, G2 shockingly went out in last place and were closely followed by Astralis, who only managed one win.

The semi-finals saw Aleksandr "s1mple" Kostyliev facing his old team in a narrow series. Jonathan "EliGE" Jablonowski, in great form throughout the group stage, put up another fantastic performance to help Liquid clinch Cobblestone. Egor "flamie" Vasilyev and Na`Vi's newest addition then took over Train and Dust2 to advance to the final.

SK and Virtus.pro on the other side provided yet another amazing series to go with their two close playoffs series at MLG Columbus and ESL One Cologne. There were a total of four overtimes on the first two maps, Mirage and Overpass, before the match was decided on Nuke. The Poles surprised with a great Terrorist side and made the final after a comfortable 16-7 scoreline.

The final itself began in extremely one-sided fashion. VP executed the plow on Cobblestone, where we witnessed multiple amazing clutches, including one of the most memorable plays of 2016, a 1v4 pistol-round triumph from Janusz "Snax" PogorzelskiNatus Vincere quickly shook off that stunning loss and dominated the Terrorist side on Train before grabbing the title after an overtime on Mirage.

Here are some of ESL One New York's best maps with links to VODs:

Swiss group stage
Denmark Astralis 16-13 France G2 Dust2  
Brazil SK 16-13 Denmark Astralis Overpass  
United States Liquid 16-14 Sweden fnatic Dust2  
Poland Virtus.pro 16-14 North America OpTic Cobblestone  
         
Playoffs
Brazil SK 19-16 Poland Virtus.pro Mirage (M1) Semi-finals
Brazil SK 21-25 Poland Virtus.pro Overpass (M2) Semi-finals
Poland Virtus.pro 16-3  CIS Natus Vincere Cobblestone (M1) Grand final
Poland Virtus.pro 17-19 CIS Natus Vincere Mirage (M3) Grand final

We took the liberty of grading the teams according to their performance and expectations we had for them prior to the event:

Team Grade
CIS Natus Vincere  A+
Poland Virtus.pro A
Brazil SK B
United States Liquid A
North America OpTic A
Sweden fnatic C
Denmark Astralis D
France G2 F

With that in mind, what have we learned from the prestigious event?

The Na`Vi we had expected finally arrived

When Natus Vincere brought s1mple in at the expense of Danylo "Zeus" Teslenko during the off-season, they instantly became the most skilled team of all on paper.

However, their total failure, and the newest addition's underwhelming display, at their debut event, SL i-League StarSeries Season 2 Finals, made us rethink Na`Vi's position in the scene.

s1mple became the secondary AWPer afterwards and Denis "seized" Kostin was forced to start calling the shots due to the new coaching rules being enforced for the first time at ESL One New York. Those adjustments made an accurate judgement of Natus Vincere's level quite difficult.


Imagine if this is what Na`Vi's future looks like

s1mple's fantastic MVP-worthy performance showed us what a formidable lineup Na`Vi can be when he is on. They didn't even need all three of their main stars playing at their best at the same time to win a huge title, a combination of just two of them was enough in the playoffs.

Ladislav "GuardiaN" Kovács undeperformed in the semi-final against Liquid as flamie and s1mple carried Natus Vincere through, while the two snipers took over the grand final when the Russian fell below his average level.

In the group stage we saw what can happen when all three go off all at once — Natus Vincere didn't let Virtus.pro, SK and Liquid even reach double digits. Imagine if that's what we can expect in the future. 

There is no clear number one right now

Prior to ESL One New York, I called Virtus.pro the "interim number one". The Poles had been the most successful team in the past three months, winning ELEAGUE and DreamHack ZOWIE Open Bucharest, but during all that time SK had been absent from all LAN events.

As such, VP would have earned the number one position had they managed to win ESL One New York, SK's first event since the Cologne Major. That would have been backed up by our ranking, as the two are now separated by only 26 points. 


Another army arrived to the battle for number one

Would've, could've, should've... With Natus Vincere taking the title, there are now three teams in contention for that all-important number one in the nearest future.

Some could say the argument that VP have been the most successful lately still holds, and they'd be right. However, to be called the best team in the world, you need a big title over the other contenders.

Whichever of the aforementioned three teams wins the next big event, which is the $500,000 EPICENTER: Moscow running from October 17-23, will reserve that right. 

NA is taking advantage of post off-season instability

While we're on the topic of the current standing at the very top, let's take a look at the tier just below, specifically the uprising North American teams: Liquid, OpTic and Cloud9.

During the past few events it was Cloud9 who took advantage of the instability in North America as well as in Europe, securing two second places at smaller events and a semi-final finish at StarSeries.

In New York, we saw some of the same signs from Liquid and OpTic. Despite both debuting following significant lineup changes, they made a good account of themselves during the event.


North America's stance is better than ever 

Aside from OpTic' blowout against fnatic on day one, their showing was well above expectations. They eliminated G2 and Astralis and came extremely close to making semi-finals in the very last group stage match against Virtus.pro.

In the meantime, Liquid denied fnatic entry to the playoffs twice in a row, contributed to G2's last place finish, and were three rounds away from another big final.

These North American teams couldn't have picked a better timing to improve. The effects of the off-season are still there, even if they're a bit less prevalent as the scene begins to stabilize. The region's stance is now better than ever with two teams in the top six and another just below the top ten of our Team Ranking.

We still have no answer to who won the Swedish swap

When GODSENT and fnatic made headlines with one of the biggest changes we've ever seen from Swedish teams, a lot of discussion began as to who came out on top of the swap.

After Markus "pronax" Wallsten's team has failed to meet expectations, it was time for fnatic to show how they've progressed over the past two months, as ESL One New York was their debut with the completely new lineup.

I gave them a "C" in the grading sheet above. That basically means fnatic's showing wasn't bad in relation to what had been expected from them, but it could have been significantly better considering the circumstances.


We got no answers from fnatic's debut

Before the event, Dennis "dennis" Edman said his team "has five stars but the world doesn't know it yet", but in New York we didn't see it. All players had their ups at some point, but none of them could be considered a star. Even fnatic's best performer Simon "twist" Eliasson played two great maps while the remaining three were average or below.

Their result could have been much better due the first encounter with Liquid, where the Swedes were up 14-8 but missed a big opportunity to advance to semi-finals. The second time was even worse. Liquid were in control for the entirety of the match and fnatic's plan to play Dust2 again fell apart, as they couldn't find a solution to the Americans' Terrorist side.

The fact that dennis led the team instead of John "wenton" Eriksson implies that they've still not figured the roles out completely and it'll take more time for fnatic to become a real contender. That puts them in a similar spot to GODSENT, so we still don't have a clear answer to who got the better of the swap. Maybe it's NiP, who chose to stay out of it and have since won a big event, admittedly with a stand-in.

New timeout rules break the fluidity of matches

From a spectator's point of view, I wasn't a fan of the new timeout rules. With each team having four 30-second timeouts to use per match, there can be a pause every three to four rounds on average.

In New York there were times when we had three timeouts within five rounds, which made the matches annoying to watch, especially when combined with small technical issues here and there. 

That's pretty much what it felt like at times: as if there were technical issues over and over, so we had to wait an extended period of time for a new round to start way too often.


Changes to tactical timeouts affect the viewers

From an analyst's point of view, it was interesting to see how teams made use of the timeouts, who adapted the most quickly (Liquid comes to mind) and how teams began using them more strategically as the event progressed.

The timeout changes were clearly a tradeoff for the coaching limitations, but do we really need one that affects the viewers this way? Why not simply allow coaches to speak during the freezetime and have the old 2-minute timeouts per match? That wouldn't eliminate the need for a playing in-game leader, so all parties (Valve, teams and viewers) should be at least reasonably happy about the result.

The Swiss format would be amazing for the Majors

For the first time we got to see how the Swiss format works in a normal tournament rather than a qualifier and it was once again proved that it is the ideal way to find the best teams at an event.
First of all, it eliminates the need for a very accurate seeding outside of the first round, as the teams are re-seeded naturally over and over after each round.
Disregarding big upsets, which can't be avoided from an organizer's perspective, teams will keep meeting better and better teams the more they win, and worse teams the more they lose. That's the perfect format if you want the four (or eight) best teams to advance to playoffs.
One area which this format would improve the most are the Majors, infamous for their highly inaccurate seeding and imbalanced groups as a result, as we saw very recently at ESL One Cologne.

For the first time we got to see how the Swiss format works in a normal tournament rather than a qualifier and it was once again proved that it is the ideal way to find the best teams at an event.

First of all, it eliminates the need for a very accurate seeding outside of the first round, as the teams are re-seeded naturally over and over after each round.

Disregarding big upsets, which can't be avoided, teams will keep meeting better and better teams the more they win, and worse teams the more they lose. That's the perfect format if you want the four (or eight) best teams to advance to playoffs.

One area which this format would improve the most are the Majors, infamous for their highly inaccurate seeding and thus imbalanced groups, as we saw very recently at ESL One Cologne.

You can follow HLTV.org's Milan "Striker" Švejda on Twitter

Slovakia Ladislav 'GuardiaN' Kovács
Ladislav 'GuardiaN' Kovács
Age:
28
Rating 1.0:
1.12
Maps played:
1450
KPR:
0.75
DPR:
0.62
APR:
0.11
Sweden Simon 'twist' Eliasson
Simon 'twist' Eliasson
Age:
24
Team:
Rating 1.0:
1.08
Maps played:
1240
KPR:
0.74
DPR:
0.67
APR:
0.14
Russia Denis 'seized' Kostin
Denis 'seized' Kostin
Age:
25
Team:
No team
Rating 1.0:
0.99
Maps played:
1224
KPR:
0.68
DPR:
0.67
APR:
0.15
United States Spencer 'Hiko' Martin
Spencer 'Hiko' Martin
Age:
29
Team:
No team
Rating 1.0:
1.04
Maps played:
917
KPR:
0.68
DPR:
0.62
APR:
0.14
Poland Wiktor 'TaZ' Wojtas
Wiktor 'TaZ' Wojtas
Age:
33
Team:
Rating 1.0:
0.98
Maps played:
1789
KPR:
0.67
DPR:
0.67
APR:
0.13
United States Jonathan 'EliGE' Jablonowski
Jonathan 'EliGE' Jablonowski
Age:
22
Team:
Rating 1.0:
1.09
Maps played:
1182
KPR:
0.76
DPR:
0.68
APR:
0.16
Ukraine Danylo 'Zeus' Teslenko
Danylo 'Zeus' Teslenko
Age:
32
Team:
No team
Rating 1.0:
0.92
Maps played:
1400
KPR:
0.63
DPR:
0.69
APR:
0.17
Sweden Markus 'pronax' Wallsten
Markus 'pronax' Wallsten
Age:
28
Team:
No team
Rating 1.0:
0.89
Maps played:
1199
KPR:
0.60
DPR:
0.67
APR:
0.14
Russia Egor 'flamie' Vasilyev
Egor 'flamie' Vasilyev
Age:
22
Rating 1.0:
1.05
Maps played:
1239
KPR:
0.72
DPR:
0.67
APR:
0.14
Sweden John 'wenton' Eriksson
John 'wenton' Eriksson
Age:
26
Team:
No team
Rating 1.0:
0.97
Maps played:
198
KPR:
0.65
DPR:
0.68
APR:
0.15
Poland Janusz 'Snax' Pogorzelski
Janusz 'Snax' Pogorzelski
Age:
26
Team:
Rating 1.0:
1.04
Maps played:
1604
KPR:
0.70
DPR:
0.66
APR:
0.13
Sweden Dennis 'dennis' Edman
Dennis 'dennis' Edman
Age:
28
Team:
Rating 1.0:
1.03
Maps played:
1091
KPR:
0.72
DPR:
0.68
APR:
0.13
Canada Peter 'stanislaw' Jarguz
Peter 'stanislaw' Jarguz
Age:
25
Rating 1.0:
0.99
Maps played:
1009
KPR:
0.66
DPR:
0.66
APR:
0.15
Ukraine Aleksandr 's1mple' Kostyliev
Aleksandr 's1mple' Kostyliev
Age:
22
Rating 1.0:
1.23
Maps played:
1060
KPR:
0.85
DPR:
0.66
APR:
0.10
Not much... nice article as always Striker
2016-10-04 16:31
simple 4 s1mple PS: Swiss system is shit, it rewards those who have really bad starts (like optic and liquid) as it means they get to face easier opponents later on while teams that have good starts (VP, SK) are punished by having to face harder opponents. Also you didn't talk about G2 and Astralis getting destroyed... Many people had G2 near or even above VP over the past few months and they absolutely got destroyed. Same with Astralis whose struggles continue.
2016-10-04 16:38
Y all u need is 3 matches, if you can't beat someone who is also 2-0 then you weren't the better team
2016-10-04 17:16
G2 and astrlias got destroyed because they did horrible and other teams outplayed and outskilled them
2016-10-04 17:17
It's funny, people think the Astralis we saw at NY and just recently in general is good...no, this team is not good and idk why, they have the players and we've seen how good they are, but they just aren't right now.
2016-10-04 18:47
That's true but they only shined for a little when the got kjyarbe or however u spell his name. But other than that this astrlias is horrible compared to tsm astrlias
2016-10-04 19:13
"however u spell his name" expected from a lazy American!
2016-10-05 13:28
I'm sorry I don't care that much about how to spell someone in a tier 4 teams name
2016-10-05 13:29
sarcasm after showing disrespect.... expected
2016-10-05 13:32
Still upset about sk off their peak
2016-10-05 14:20
trying to change the subject when facing the truth... super expected!
2016-10-05 15:16
I made my point you silly goose
2016-10-05 16:47
And you can't doubt that tsm astrlias was the best astrlias
2016-10-05 16:48
you were right on your point. I only said about the "however u spell his name" part.
2016-10-05 16:50
Idk why you are so upset that I didn't spend the couple of seconds to google him
2016-10-05 16:52
because if I talk about someone I intend to speak properly .. so I think it is valid to lose a few seconds on google!
2016-10-05 16:54
/close you started a pointless argument and took an L
2016-10-05 17:03
#19
 | 
World asbi 
K
2016-10-04 16:31
#99
 | 
Poland bot_taz 
we learned a lot bro... The most important thing, never invite people that create electronic music and use some voice clarity boosts in their songs, like we heard they performed really bad live without a support of software... even 20 minute karaoke with comentators and analysists would be 100% better! damn I would pay to hear that! XD also they would get to choose the songs for each other! this would be hella fun! #copyright reserved by me if you want to do it ask me for persmision. finals shouldn't be held the same day as semis for players and for viewers it was bad experience, I twas even bad for NA viewers 2AM at Monday? not a great deal... I couldn't even stay up for such a long time... simply I was to tired to watch and I fallen a sleep...(yes butt hurt much but it's backed up with facts, NAVI had 6h brake before the game! this is unfair advantage tbh, I'm not taking anything from them, they have been my favorites after what I saw in group stage, but at least do it in a fair way...) You could also host a show much and 3rd place decider before the finals to build the hype and to earn more money this way. I think 1-1 brake per team would be the best solution, 2 minutes of time to discuss on each half is a great opportunity for comebacks =) In terms of swiss format I think we should host 3-4 more lans with such thing before we introduce it to major.
2016-10-04 18:54
A LOT
2016-10-04 16:31
Do you still bet?
2016-10-04 16:32
Following the scene a bit and watching few matches when I have extra time on my hands, don't have a lot of that since I started uni.
2016-10-04 16:33
#6
 | 
Estonia elariBAY 
n1
2016-10-04 16:31
nice
2016-10-04 16:31
We learned that NiP is love and will always be life <33333
2016-10-04 16:31
this is true my friend
2016-10-04 17:10
We still have no answer to who won the Swedish swap NiP definitely ;))
2016-10-04 18:43
Indeeeed <3
2016-10-04 19:00
n1
2016-10-04 16:31
nothing
2016-10-04 16:31
Great event, superb matches
2016-10-04 16:31
Epicenter will be huge with all TOP4 + #7-8, Ninjas are back and only americanas will miss this. Can't wait =]
2016-10-04 18:21
yeah and throwing awps over the wall! hltv.org/movie/21978-s1mples-fake-awp-fl..
2016-10-04 18:53
kk
2016-10-04 16:31
liquid #1
2016-10-04 16:31
good work sriker
2016-10-04 16:31
too long to load
2016-10-04 16:32
#22
 | 
Singapore FreddyBoxson 
n1
2016-10-04 16:33
We learned that SK don't care about tournaments with so low prizepool. And also that G2 suck.
2016-10-04 16:33
SK just sucked that tournament. If they didn't care about the prize pool they would have just made some excuse to skip it.
2016-10-04 17:46
Why wouldn't they attend it? I think they didn't care much and played loose and still won some amount of money. They would care more if they could win 500k, at least I think so...
2016-10-04 17:56
No, they want to be n°1 and you can't be the best if you only play Majors
2016-10-04 18:30
SK lost some tier1.5 tournaments but at majors they're unbeatable Since they give away 1 million usd at majors, it's no use to try hard at 250k tournaments anymore
2016-10-04 19:27
This has to be the most retarded thing I've heard, especially since they decided to organize a major every 6 months
2016-10-04 19:56
Majors mean the most, if you don't know that - then I'm happy to enlighten you.
2016-10-04 21:12
Lel, I knew this already, but if they wanna prove they're the best team in the world they need to try hard every tier 1 event ( next major might be tier 1.5 like you say )
2016-10-04 21:14
Majors have a 1 million dollars prizepool "next major will be tier 1.5" - wtf?.. Valve pays 1 million at majors, whats wrong with you?
2016-10-04 21:16
I'm speaking about the level of CS which will be displayed ( GODSENT, Gambit and F3 legends lul ), there already are more prizepool in ELEAGUE, and in the end, I just think you're a delusional SK fanboy who's trying to find a excuse for their defeat. I love the team, but VP was just better.
2016-10-04 21:24
SK don't need any excuses, they destroyed everyone at majors. When SK lose to anybody at major playoffs - then come again. I hate SK, but it doesn't prevent me from seeing the obvious things - SK only lose when they play some smaller tournaments. Don't even mention ESC with cheating shox.
2016-10-04 21:29
We'll see if they win EPICENTER then, 500k prizepool is a big thing. They need confidence tho, and winning those "smaller" events is important to get it, especially when u play tier 1 teams.
2016-10-04 21:32
SK lost because they were playing bad. Maybe they didn't work that hard for this tournament, but it was a poor performance, but they were still there to win, like every other team.
2016-10-04 22:40
what we learn fnatic is dead 4Head
2016-10-04 16:34
#27
 | 
Netherlands vBr8 
please HLTV keep it to the ingame player names instead of their real names.. it's much easier to read it like that than with the real names.
2016-10-04 16:34
#34
f0rest | 
Serbia dankooo 
you have both there and also if you put mouse over it you see the linked ingame name on this page.
2016-10-04 16:38
#35
 | 
Netherlands vBr8 
it's still pretty annoying if you don't know/remember the real names and you have to put the mouse on it every time
2016-10-04 16:39
#107
SPUNJ | 
Brazil FalKsCS 
So what, if you're reading through chrome on the app? There, you can't see the "linked name"
2016-10-04 20:14
I agere.
2016-10-04 17:55
It was a quarter between SK and VP at MLG I believe. Great article!
2016-10-04 16:35
#30
 | 
Indonesia CoronaHypeZ 
Really hope the swiss system be implemented on the major
2016-10-04 16:36
#31
 | 
Poland Michulele 
IMO Swiss format is shitty
2016-10-04 16:36
What don't you like about the swiss system? Last major we had shit groups with Gambit/Dig/CLG fighting for two legend spots while SK/Fnatic/G2/Faze were top5 at the time lol.
2016-10-04 20:14
those pauses needs to be fixed.
2016-10-04 16:37
#33
CIS Ume 
"We still have no answer to who won the Swedish swap" i lol'd
2016-10-04 16:38
#36
 | 
North America eschato 
Astralis Grade D G2 Grade F lmao
2016-10-04 16:41
we learned that Grand Final shouldn't be played in the same day with semis, because it's not so fair when one of the finalists has so huge time handicap like NaVi had. PS. congratulations, Natus Vincere.
2016-10-04 16:45
True
2016-10-04 16:51
Neo, log in pls.
2016-10-04 17:40
True. Big mistanke.
2016-10-04 17:55
tank you
2016-10-08 09:42
indeed virtus are from Poland and when i went to sleep at 22pm they just finished first map with SK and when i woke up at 6:30pm they played third map with Na'Vi. WTF?! For Europeans that time is for sleep and playing game in more time then u should sleep its just pain. I saw Neo and Pasha when they played with SK and they looked tired and after 8h i thought they would look like a zombie...
2016-10-04 18:03
#80
FalleN | 
World Vechnyp 
nice time travelling
2016-10-04 18:06
i mean 6:30 am xD
2016-10-04 18:43
rise of NA inc
2016-10-04 16:52
Great article!! I love when the writers use this sense of criticism on the text. Continue with it! Nice once Striker!
2016-10-04 16:54
#41
 | 
France t3r4byt3 
could've touched upon Astralis' and G2's failures nice read otherwise
2016-10-04 16:54
+1 ... was expecting some thoughts around the horrible performance by G2 and a disappointing (but not that surprising ? ) performance by astralis
2016-10-04 17:18
#42
Europe bueR 
Majors need much better seeding to groups based on team capability/recent results rather than just placement last tournament. And adopt GSL format. Swiss format is inferior due to only being bo1's.
2016-10-04 16:56
Swiss format automatically adjusts itself for seeds? BO1's aren't great, but imo if you lose 3 bo1's then you deserve to get kicked. Likewise, winning 3 bo1's isn't just random luck.
2016-10-04 20:16
I meant seeds for the current system. Also apply to the GSL format. I don't care about the swiss format. It's widely inferior. I don't really think a team losing 3 bo1 to often 3 different teams is any better than a bo3 decider. Not random luck but it's not optimal for determining which team is the worst in the group. All my opinion.
2016-10-04 21:38
#43
 | 
World PTSD 
G2 F
2016-10-04 16:56
What we learned: -don't force second finalist to go straight into the finale or at least MUCH LATER if the same day -pauses break the flow of the game for viewers -sound-proof booths are important and so is sound-system -NA is doing better :D -Neither side won with the swedish roster swap (fnatic/Godsent) - actually both lost it.
2016-10-04 17:02
#56
L.K.S | 
Brazil warthGOD 
Pretty much this, talking about organization wise.
2016-10-04 17:30
Both teams lost so bad.
2016-10-04 17:56
#45
cromen | 
Denmark ilnert 
Worst tournament organized by ESL
2016-10-04 17:08
#46
 | 
Spain Alser 
I like the "grades" idea even though it's obviosuly pretty subjective, gj
2016-10-04 17:09
"We dont have a clear number one right now." Brazilians triggered right there. 4Head
2016-10-04 17:10
#49
 | 
Denmark qwedsa 
Nice article, I agree with all except the time-outs. It doesn't bother the viewer with a brain. In all fast-paced sports you have time-outs, and thus it is needed in CS as well, in order to bring the game to a higher level. A team losing on tilt is lowering the overall level of the game. Who wants to watch that ?!?
2016-10-04 17:13
It's not about timeouts overall, just the current format. No one wants to stare at nothing an extra 30s possibly every other round
2016-10-04 18:05
#98
FalleN | 
World Vechnyp 
striker dont advice them to add ads every 30s pause like youtube 1 advert in 10min
2016-10-04 18:54
#112
 | 
Denmark qwedsa 
Oh, must've misunderstood. I thought it was leaning towards the removal of timeouts. I agree that nobody wants to watch the players for additional 30 sec every round, but in my opinion, it leaves a room for many possibilities. I mean, the production team could use the time-outs to replay last round or/and do some quick analyzing on certain rounds that were important, show some statistics etc. you get the point. Possible changes to the rules could be that the same team can't call for a time-out witin 3-4 rounds.
2016-10-04 20:34
#50
United Kingdom Dird 
cobblestone 16-3 is a best map?
2016-10-04 17:14
Because it was not navi playing bad,it was VP playing really really good.
2016-10-04 17:46
#54
 | 
France France98123 
i agree about the swiss format , best one out there , but now we have to reform the way seeds for groups are made
2016-10-04 17:18
The Swiss format would be amazing for the Majors cant agree. groupstage with 4 teams per group and bo1. playoffs as double elimination bo3 with top1/2 in upperbracket, top3/4 in lowerbracket would be the best format. in 2013 and 2014 there were some tournaments with this format and imo its the most enjoyable.
2016-10-04 17:35
Not a big fan of groups. Last major we have the top 5 teams in one group and teams ranked 8-12 in another group, all fighting for two legend spots. Swiss format basically says fuck that lol.
2016-10-04 20:18
#58
dsn | 
Brazil diiogo4545 
We learned that VP fans should not say to brazilians if we are ready for the 2nd before final. FEELS BAD MAN!!
2016-10-04 17:37
The Swiss format would be amazing for the Majors For the first time we got to see how the Swiss format works in a normal tournament rather than a qualifier and it was once again proved that it is the ideal way to find the best teams at an event.First of all, it eliminates the need for a very accurate seeding outside of the first round, as the teams are re-seeded naturally over and over after each round.Disregarding big upsets, which can't be avoided from an organizer's perspective, teams will keep meeting better and better teams the more they win, and worse teams the more they lose. That's the perfect format if you want the four (or eight) best teams to advance to playoffs.One area which this format would improve the most are the Majors, infamous for their highly inaccurate seeding and imbalanced groups as a result, as we saw very recently at ESL One Cologne. For the first time we got to see how the Swiss format works in a normal tournament rather than a qualifier and it was once again proved that it is the ideal way to find the best teams at an event. First of all, it eliminates the need for a very accurate seeding outside of the first round, as the teams are re-seeded naturally over and over after each round. Disregarding big upsets, which can't be avoided, teams will keep meeting better and better teams the more they win, and worse teams the more they lose. That's the perfect format if you want the four (or eight) best teams to advance to playoffs. One area which this format would improve the most are the Majors, infamous for their highly inaccurate seeding and thus imbalanced groups, as we saw very recently at ESL One Cologne. +1
2016-10-04 17:42
I agree on this. But... the SWISS format requires more games, which means more time, isn't it? This tournament had 8 teams. But a Major usually has 16 teams... can someone confirm how many games are required in each format, counting BO3 as ONE game only. Thanks!
2016-10-04 18:01
#81
 | 
Spain Alser 
A 16-team Swiss format was used in the Cologne 2016 qualifier. 33 matches took place in 4 days
2016-10-04 18:13
Isn't that an "impossible" format? 4 days is a lot. They totalized 33 games to find out the best 8 teams... And from those 8 teams, they still had to do some kind of playoffs. I would like to know, from the OP Striker point of view, how would he recommend SWISS format on a 16-team tournament.
2016-10-04 18:14
#84
 | 
Spain Alser 
The next major is 8 days long, so 4 days groups + 1 day off + 3 days playoffs is possible
2016-10-04 18:15
8 days long? Really? That will be super inconsistent in terms of viewers... I think. We will have to wait and see :)
2016-10-04 18:20
#85
tarik | 
Belgium kaebboy 
well a major is a major at the end, this should be the best tournament of the year
2016-10-04 18:17
Also worth pointing out is that they played those 33 matches one at a time, which isn't necessary. It could all be finished in 2-3 days if they'd play two matches at the same time. And then do double elimination Bo3 playoffs. And let's face it, every organizer so far has treated group stages at the majors like a qualifier, a less important part of the tournament which gets played behind closed doors with worse production. So it could easily be pulled off if someone wanted to.
2016-10-04 18:34
Well it wouldn't change much from actual groupstages, especially since next major will be 2 days longer than Cologne
2016-10-04 21:18
I enjoyed this part. No one got eliminated till the third day which let some teams actually feel like they were at a tournament rather than getting booted on day 1 lol.
2016-10-04 20:20
#63
JZFB | 
CIS Ansoro 
I really cant understand why did they limit the coaches' abilities, it makes the game less interesting to watch, i mean the strats are way easier.. btw nice hat wenton, the former moscow mayor had the same 1 xdxdxd
2016-10-04 17:51
The Swiss format would be amazing for the Majors!
2016-10-04 17:51
That moment when 5/8 best maps involve Virtus Pro :P
2016-10-04 17:51
I really like the idea of allowing coaches to speak only during freeze time, nice article
2016-10-04 17:52
#67
 | 
United States xFyr3 
if they implement the swiss format into majors, either they will have to remove the "Pick 'em" challenges, or the events would be spanned across an unnecessary amount of days
2016-10-04 17:54
Good read as usual. Keep them coming Striker
2016-10-04 17:56
#73
 | 
Spain akproxx 
We still have no answer to who won the Swedish swap all loose nip declined every offer godsent lacks of firepower and fnatic are like faze no igl just rush b they can make 2 top 1 teams but they wouldnt same as france
2016-10-04 17:59
We learned that final should be with 1 day break or something..
2016-10-04 18:04
Agree to all but timeouts
2016-10-04 18:04
#78
 | 
Sweden Kasidro 
Yeah Swiss format would really be awesome for the majors. Either one big group or two of 8
2016-10-04 18:04
#87
 | 
Azerbaijan Talley 
Yeah 2 groups with 8 teams each (4 legends 4 challengers), that would work well.
2016-10-04 18:20
#89
 | 
Spain Alser 
No, the Swiss system is made for 16 or 32 team tournaments. 8 team groups lead to rematches like in NY
2016-10-04 18:21
we learned that br fans are incredibly delusional and toxic .
2016-10-04 18:13
No talk about how poorly organized it was? Dunb
2016-10-04 18:20
The pauses were annoying at first, but at least I quickly got customed to them and after that they provided nice breaks to go to bathroom or have a snack or do some other ADHD stuff. And games like icehockey have brought commercial breaks during the games, which people found 1st annoying and then accepted them. I am not arguing they must stay, but I didn't find them too distracting. Can't say anything about POV of players tho. I also think letting coaches talk during freeze times would probably be enough, and maybe try adding 5s more to freeze time. That would make game max 2.5min longer, so shouldn't affect that much, but would allow coach to affect buys and actually say something meaningful. But I do agree with Valve, that coach IGL is not necessarily a good thing for the game. I felt now more that the players are the ones playing and not just puppets of some RTS like IGL. This puts more emphasis on the experience and game sense of the players themselves, which (I think) clearly showed in the games. Also, it felt so that the coach is actually coaching: giving advices that the players don't realize, but not controlling the whole game. E.g. I am sure s1mple wouldn't be that exciting, if starix would be calling constantly.
2016-10-04 18:46
#102
 | 
Poland Matt2121 
We learned that the finale should be in next day
2016-10-04 19:17
Swiss format is best format. Was great seeing winning teams play winners and losers play losers. You also never worry about silly group stages where teams ranked #8 - 12 fight for two legend spots while teams ranked #1-4 do the same. I wish the swiss format was used by default. Regarding pauses, I have no opinion on them. Did not notice much delay since it's only 30 seconds. I think it's nice for teams to have them.
2016-10-04 19:52
> Why not simply allow coaches to speak during the freezetime and have the old 2-minute timeouts per match? +1, volvo psl
2016-10-04 20:42
#122
 | 
Germany ToxlC 
Lul na grades
2016-10-04 22:12
What we really learned from ESL NY is that ESL is the worst company so far at putting on a live event. The last 3 events have been a disaster for the spectators in attendance and have been plagued with problems. If ELeague kills this major like they did their season 1 finale ESL can kiss their valve sponsorship goodbye.
2016-10-04 22:25
nice striker
2016-10-04 23:08
What we learned? Semi Finals and Grand Final shouldn't be at the same day, that's all :)
2016-10-05 19:48
#139
 | 
Turkey powergs 
We learned VP best team in the entire world and that pause system absoultley bullshit
2016-10-05 21:35
I agree that swiss groups are great. I hope to see them at future majors--we end up seeing the most interesting group stage matches
2016-10-05 22:15
I think it will be more interesting if majors runs groups stages and winner-lower bracket like dota. It will spend a lot of time but will make more exciting matches
2016-10-06 20:29
Login or register to add your comment to the discussion.