What we learned from Pro League

With ESL Pro League Season 4 Finals coming to a close, we take a look at what we've learned over the prolonged weekend which saw Cloud9 getting their first big trophy.

Before we address what we learned from the event taking place in São Paulo, we should go over what happened in the following recap of the results and most exciting matches.

The Pro League Finals featured a round-robin, best-of-one format in groups, where 11 teams fought for a place in the playoffs. Group A, which only featured five teams due to fnatic dropping out at the last minute, was quite straightforward from beginning to end.

Envy grabbed three convincing victories but finished second to mousesports, who defeated the Frenchmen at the end of groups and advanced directly to semi-finals despite losing to Immortals on the way. The third spot went to OpTic due to big wins over their two competitors in North America, Liquid and Immortals.


What did we learn from ESL Pro League Finals? 

Group B was wide open the whole way through. SK began with a loss to NiP but ended the groups with a 4-1 record, defeating the other four teams without too much trouble. Cloud9 finished the round-robin with the same amount of wins, advancing to quarter-finals from second place in the group due to the loss to the Brazilians.

Surviving a potential upset by NRG, NiP avoided elimination, as Cloud9 sent Dignitas packing despite a 6-12 deficit in the last match of Group B.

The quarter-finals saw NiP defeat Envy in two maps, with Dust2 going to overtime, while Cloud9 passed North American rivals OpTic in comfortable fashion. The Swedes then went on to face SK, who dropped Nuke despite a 7-1 lead but made the grand final after two comfortable maps.

Cloud9 continued to dominate the bracket by defeating mousesports 2-0 to join the Brazilians in the final. With only two rounds as Terrorists on Overpass, SK clinched the first map after overtime. However, it was the American-Canadian team who emerged victorious in commanding fashion, only losing 11 rounds in total over Mirage and Dust2 for their first big international title.

Cloud9 enter the fray
asdf
dignitas
asdf
Immortals and Liquid failure
asdf
Teams' instability can no longer be blamed on just the off-season
asdf
Round-robin
asdf
Timeout rules need changing before ELEAGUE's Major
asdf

Cloud9 enter the fray

After their success following the change from Alec "Slemmy" White to Timothy "autimatic" Ta, placing in the semi-finals at StarSeries and second at Northern Arena and DreamHack Bucharest, Cloud9 were already considered one of the teams approaching the elite level status.

They finally unlocked the next level in São Paulo, besting established teams such as NiP and Dignitas in groups and passing SK, an elite-level team, in the grand final. Their comfortable series against OpTic and mousesports were also encouraging, as Peter "stanislaw" Jarguz's team threatened Cloud9 online while mousesports were looking better than ever with Christian "loWel" Garcia Antoran playing well.

The grand final was an impressive showing of what Cloud9 can do when they fire on all cylinders. It could have been even more one-sided, had Jordan "n0thing" Gilbert's team won the second pistol round on Overpass after gaining the 13-2 lead as Counter-Terrorists.


Cloud9 took it to the next level

However, that allowed for the series to go to Dust2, where we saw that it's not just the individual players that make the team. After a crushing loss on the same map in groups, Jake "Stewie2K" Yip and company adjusted their play on it and turned it around in the final's decider, as SK elected to leave it in instead of Cobblestone, supposedly due to the group result.

Cloud9's two best players, autimatic and Stewie2K, played a pivotal part in Cloud9's success, especially the former who also received an MVP award with an astounding 1.31 rating and unrivaled consistency. Mike "shroud" Grzesiek was also a difference maker, as he played well in some of the close matches and much more consistently than he did at the previous three events.

Immortals and Liquid didn't show up

While one North American team rose to the occasion, two others failed to show up in a fairly even group. Both Liquid and Immortals faced crushing defeats at the hands of OpTic and Envy, two teams both should at least be able to take to close scorelines.

In Liquid's case, the issue was quite apparent, especially considering we've seen the team go through the same problems before when Eric "adreN" Hoag was in and out.

Luis "peacemaker" Tadeu had to step down from in-game leading  prior to ESL One New York due to the coaching changes, which forced Liquid to readdress in-game leadership. Nick "nitr0" Cannella tried it out — again — for New York and when it wasn't working, Spencer "Hiko" Martin took over — again.


Liquid are in dire need of a good coach or an experienced in-game leader

In New York, Liquid were the only ones who were using the new timeouts' full potential from the get go, as they had the Brazilian coach to call them when he noticed something was wrong.

In Brazil they didn't have that luxury, as peacemaker had left the team altogether, and Liquid seemed completely lost in the first two matches. There was no adaptation and little to no improvisation, mostly just default play that clearly wasn't working.

Unless the coaching rules change and Liquid get a good coach, it's hard to see them avoiding lineup changes, as they need an experienced in-game leader. The problem is, they'd most likely have to get someone from Europe again, as North America lacks strong leaders.

It's hard to tell where Immortals' issue lies. Their coach, Rafael "zakk" Fernandes, mentioned the team lacks in communication when they don't get emotional, but it was more than that. With Wilton "zews" Prado playing as poorly as he was, it's hard to get anywhere without the stars putting up numbers, but Henrique "HEN1" Teles and João "felps" Vasconcellos were nowhere to be seen either.

dignitas have to go back to the drawing board

Placing top four at two consecutive events before winning WESG Regional Finals and EPICENTER: Moscow, Dignitas headed into ESL Pro League Season 4 Finals as one of the biggest favourites.

Their strong Mirage and Cobblestone were one of the main reasons of Dignitas' success in Russia, but the same maps were their downfall in Brazil. FaZe and SK crushed the Danes on each map and the deciding Mirage with Cloud9 was even more baffing, as Dignitas had a 12-6 lead as Terrorists but lost 10 out of the last 11 rounds to exit the tournament.


dignitas have some troubleshooting to do

Perhaps it's got to do with the fact that Dignitas had no time in between the two events, but neither did SK and they managed to fix their problems on Cobblestone during the tournament.

Dignitas have yet to learn that trade, maybe because the team consists of young players aside from René "cajunb" Borg; they're the youngest team in top-tier competition with an average age of a little over 21.

A good sign going forward was that Emil "Magisk" Reif carried his form over from EPICENTER and was the event's best-rated player, although Kristian "k0nfig" Wienecke dropped off significantly from his MVP-worthy performance in Moscow.

The off-season effects are still in place

The first official off-season in CS:GO resulted in many changes, and with the extra long break between top-tier events, it was inevitable some of the new teams couldn't maintain good results.

In fact, two teams who managed to place in the top four consistently throughout the past three months while champions differed are those who had not changed players: Virtus.pro and SK, incidentally the current top two in our Team Ranking.

The off-season is at the root of the instability we're now seeing in CS:GO, but it's no longer the cause, as three months should be more than enough for the teams to find their form and make the playstyle changes necessary.


While Cloud9 and dignitas improved with the off-season changes, others are struggling

In some cases that isn't quite as possible with the current volume of events. Even the established teams such as the aforementioned two are unlikely to win consecutive events due to the limited practice they can get in between tournaments. For example, Virtus.pro attended five events in the past one and a half months, while SK played three in October.

That means teams have to go from event to event and the tournaments become more about the basics, the teams' form and on-the-fly adjustments rather than good preparation. Those are necessary skills to have, but it doesn't provide the best Counter-Strike.

Only two teams took advantage of the situation by improving steadily following lineup changes: Dignitas and Cloud9. Both have managed to keep up the pace with the two best teams in the world and even take titles off the bigger names, while others such as fnatic, GODSENT and Liquid are struggling.

Fortunately the craziness will end with the ELEAGUE Major Main Qualifier in mid-December. There probably won't be more than one other tournament in January, which should make the Major itself worthwhile.

The round robin format has big downsides

We've now seen the round robin format in use twice in a row, at EPICENTER: Moscow and at ESL Pro League Season 4 Finals.

One of the biggest downsides is that teams often depend on others to determine their fate. That much we saw at Pro League, as in the last match of Group B Cloud9 came back against Dignitas to secure NiP a place in the playoffs.

Had the Danes won their last match, NiP would have been eliminated due to a three-way tie between them, Cloud9 and Dignitas, as they lost to both of them in the round robin.

That example leads us to another flaw of the system — teams can exit the tournament in groups despite a positive record (NiP had three wins and two losses).


NiP needed Cloud9 to win against dignitas at the end of groups 

When teams already know they've been eliminated but still have matches left to play, they have next to no incentive to win. The difference in prizemoney is usually insignificant ($5,000 to $10,000 difference between 4th and 6th place in Pro League groups), which makes those matches important for none or only one of the teams.

Lastly, the tiebreakers after head-to-head results are far from ideal. At EPICENTER it came down to round difference, while ESL came up with their own system, where the tied teams would have to play overtime-like deciding matches in mr3 settings.

None of those flaws exist in the GSL or the Swiss format, which is why tournament organizers began using them in the first place. As long as teams are still in the tournament, they always have a chance to advance, their fate never depends on the other results and there are no ties.

You can follow HLTV.org's Milan "Striker" Švejda on Twitter

Brazil João 'felps' Vasconcellos
João 'felps' Vasconcellos
Age:
22
Team:
No team
Rating 1.0:
1.06
Maps played:
731
KPR:
0.75
DPR:
0.71
APR:
0.16
United States Alec 'Slemmy' White
Alec 'Slemmy' White
Age:
29
Team:
No team
Rating 1.0:
0.85
Maps played:
445
KPR:
0.57
DPR:
0.68
APR:
0.12
United States Nick 'nitr0' Cannella
Nick 'nitr0' Cannella
Age:
24
Team:
Rating 1.0:
1.02
Maps played:
1207
KPR:
0.69
DPR:
0.66
APR:
0.14
Denmark Emil 'Magisk' Reif
Emil 'Magisk' Reif
Age:
21
Team:
Rating 1.0:
1.11
Maps played:
981
KPR:
0.74
DPR:
0.63
APR:
0.15
United States Eric 'adreN' Hoag
Eric 'adreN' Hoag
Age:
29
Team:
No team
Rating 1.0:
1.00
Maps played:
600
KPR:
0.67
DPR:
0.65
APR:
0.15
United States Jordan 'n0thing' Gilbert
Jordan 'n0thing' Gilbert
Age:
29
Team:
No team
Rating 1.0:
1.02
Maps played:
813
KPR:
0.70
DPR:
0.68
APR:
0.15
Brazil Wilton 'zews' Prado
Wilton 'zews' Prado
Age:
32
Team:
No team
Rating 1.0:
0.80
Maps played:
142
KPR:
0.53
DPR:
0.69
APR:
0.13
United States Spencer 'Hiko' Martin
Spencer 'Hiko' Martin
Age:
29
Team:
No team
Rating 1.0:
1.04
Maps played:
917
KPR:
0.68
DPR:
0.62
APR:
0.14
Brazil Rafael 'zakk' Fernandes
Rafael 'zakk' Fernandes
Age:
-
Team:
No team
Rating 1.0:
0.76
Maps played:
95
KPR:
0.51
DPR:
0.70
APR:
0.13
Canada Mike 'shroud' Grzesiek
Mike 'shroud' Grzesiek
Age:
25
Team:
No team
Rating 1.0:
1.07
Maps played:
676
KPR:
0.72
DPR:
0.65
APR:
0.14
United States Jake 'Stewie2K' Yip
Jake 'Stewie2K' Yip
Age:
21
Team:
Rating 1.0:
1.04
Maps played:
1108
KPR:
0.72
DPR:
0.68
APR:
0.14
Spain Christian 'loWel' Garcia Antoran
Christian 'loWel' Garcia Antoran
Age:
22
Rating 1.0:
1.06
Maps played:
831
KPR:
0.71
DPR:
0.64
APR:
0.14
United States Timothy 'autimatic' Ta
Timothy 'autimatic' Ta
Age:
23
Team:
Rating 1.0:
1.08
Maps played:
987
KPR:
0.75
DPR:
0.67
APR:
0.14
Denmark René 'cajunb' Borg
René 'cajunb' Borg
Age:
29
Team:
Rating 1.0:
1.07
Maps played:
1445
KPR:
0.71
DPR:
0.63
APR:
0.13
Brazil Henrique 'HEN1' Teles
Henrique 'HEN1' Teles
Age:
24
Team:
Rating 1.0:
1.11
Maps played:
778
KPR:
0.72
DPR:
0.58
APR:
0.12
Denmark Kristian 'k0nfig' Wienecke
Kristian 'k0nfig' Wienecke
Age:
22
Team:
Rating 1.0:
1.08
Maps played:
1051
KPR:
0.75
DPR:
0.69
APR:
0.13
Canada Peter 'stanislaw' Jarguz
Peter 'stanislaw' Jarguz
Age:
25
Rating 1.0:
0.99
Maps played:
1004
KPR:
0.66
DPR:
0.66
APR:
0.14
f
2016-11-03 12:43
#26
 | 
Germany Bier 
What we learned was that you shouldn't host a event in brazil
2016-11-03 12:51
#30
 | 
Norway Shaquelele 
+1 And another +1
2016-11-03 12:57
+1
2016-11-03 13:02
#35
Other nars 
nt Epicenter coming to Brazil next year.
2016-11-03 13:02
:D as if :D
2016-11-03 23:57
#39
 | 
Denmark U w0t m8? 
+1
2016-11-03 13:08
Lol before i even pressed a link, wanted to write the same sentence.
2016-11-03 13:09
+1 U said it before me
2016-11-03 13:31
Ripperino streams and perfekt inglish grill host
2016-11-03 14:00
#58
 | 
Germany Bier 
what?
2016-11-03 14:01
It's about brazil event, I support you
2016-11-03 14:02
#66
 | 
United Kingdom ryb1kkk 
+1
2016-11-03 14:33
+1
2016-11-03 14:42
+1
2016-11-03 15:01
+1
2016-11-03 15:39
#74
starix | 
World dellovv 
Moldavia ruskies speaking better
2016-11-03 15:40
+1
2016-11-07 22:07
Y u hunt
2016-11-03 14:18
+1
2016-11-03 12:43
TL;DR NA CS is great again thanks to LG/SK - We improved the quality of the scrims training against a better team will make you better - We made them play for pride again A foreigner come to our country and steals tournament slots, prize money and titles. I bet you would be pissed as well - Choke of reality. No more excuses We came from a poor land with way less conditions, less salaries, sleeping on the floor. These spoiled and pampered kids realized they neeeded to work harder to actually accomplish anything In the name of all brazilians on HLTV, we would like to be praised by everyone and receive compliments. In this days, if you will give a good word to others - you will certainly get the same respond. You are welcome, NA.
2016-11-03 13:45
Ez win tbh
2016-11-03 14:19
"- We made them play for pride again A foreigner come to our country and steals tournament slots, prize money and titles. I bet you would be pissed as well" why would anyone be pissed about that? c9 played better so they deserve the trophy, title and money and its not "your" trophy, its the organizers trophy
2016-11-03 14:57
Early 2016, Luminosity had almost every single event and C9 was like a International T2 team lul
2016-11-03 15:02
#78
 | 
Belgium YoGatesKevin 
Early 2016, fnatic always rekt lg and lg won't have a chance to get the revenge on old fnatic lineup in the near future
2016-11-03 16:31
#83
gAuLeS | 
Liechtenstein KotoPRO 
ya because old fnatic line up got absolute shit and couldnt even go out of the group stages, shit garbege , brazil is the top team in csgo history ,suck it losers.
2016-11-03 18:25
#101
 | 
Belgium YoGatesKevin 
favelado afraid to show his true flag. fnatic went out of groups on every single tournament with olof, you delusional monkey hltv.org/match/2303589-brazil-argentina-.. BEST TEAM IN CSGO HISTORY LUL
2016-11-04 17:49
100% true, NA CS owns LG/SK big time
2016-11-03 15:48
If anything, SK owes NA cs for allowing them to train with them and play in NA
2016-11-04 00:30
+1
2016-11-04 17:41
SK owes NA government for allowing them to live there and NA cs owes SK for being relevant again
2016-11-06 18:33
it's your* welcome
2016-11-07 22:07
#3
kNgV- | 
Japan kayenji 
nice
2016-11-03 12:43
#4
jmqa | 
Russia Tuffywaf 
rip
2016-11-03 12:43
#5
 | 
Europe Meoxik 
nice
2016-11-03 12:43
#6
 | 
Sweden Kasidro 
d
2016-11-03 12:43
da
2016-11-03 12:43
#10
shox | 
Canada dB- 
GOD
2016-11-03 12:43
#11
f0rest | 
Indonesia rareguy 
Wait, what? NiP at it again, choking
2016-11-03 12:43
#12
 | 
France StickyRice 
25-1 online + victory on LAN, we learned that currently C9 is the best team in the world.
2016-11-03 12:43
#27
 | 
Germany Bier 
No VP, No Na'Vi. and a 25-1 in NA is not really impressive
2016-11-03 12:53
But dignitas who raped VP in Epicenter and SK who usually win against NAVI
2016-11-03 12:58
#37
 | 
Germany Bier 
You can't use chainlogic in CS, lol
2016-11-03 13:03
U cant use chainlogic in nearly every sport
2016-11-03 13:49
#71
 | 
France ketokilvo 
Faze consistently destroys dignitas. FaZe top 1???
2016-11-03 15:21
#60
 | 
France StickyRice 
Only 18-8 for SK in NA. (i know they had SHOOWTIME for a couple weeks), 25-1 in a Pro League (even though it's the NA one) is an immense performance. VP and NaVi were too shitty to qualify. Especially NaVi 13 wins 13 losses with negative round difference. VP at least ended up 14-12 which shows they tried to be more serious online in that ESL season.
2016-11-03 14:02
#61
 | 
Germany Bier 
VP and NaVi were always shit online and gods on lan. SHowtime is one of the biggest bots out there, so SK practically played always 4v5. There are only Optic, C9, NRG, SK who might win against each others. The rest of na is shit period
2016-11-03 14:05
#13
 | 
Sweden pontus767 
Nice
2016-11-03 12:43
#14
 | 
Korea Damianlee 
That Cloud9 are gods
2016-11-03 12:44
this is the only kind of stuff to consider reading when your bored as fuck
2016-11-03 12:44
Where is "what we learned from EPICENTER" ??? Pretty much you can learn a lot from this event, why so delusional?
2016-11-03 12:45
don't be so mad ruski xd
2016-11-03 12:47
stfu no scener
2016-11-03 12:47
ok dosia
2016-11-03 12:49
#48
hippien | 
New Zealand TEEZY 
Cry cry mad boi
2016-11-03 13:23
#28
 | 
Germany Bier 
flag checks out
2016-11-03 12:53
Nothing
2016-11-03 12:45
gotta be quicker than that
2016-11-03 12:46
#23
 | 
Ukraine petruska 
No more events in Brazil
2016-11-03 12:50
this
2016-11-03 13:09
yeah not optimal, but with swiss format or gsl, you dont get to play all the other teams, and what if your a decent team and all you get to play is lets say SK once and VP twice? no tie, but no fair either rather have a tie breaker than having no chance
2016-11-03 12:51
#32
 | 
Sweden Div-\ 
But with the swiss format in the end you end up matched with teams that have similar w/l streak, so in the end the weaker teams battle against each other for a chance to qualify to the playoffs... I really appreciate the swiss system tbh.
2016-11-03 12:59
swiss makes more sense in theory, just some scenarios that could get weird and "unfair". but in the end it would be better, now that I think of eliminated teams with no motivation to win can decide the fate of others, that should never happen
2016-11-03 13:05
yeah i know what you mean, if a big team gets upset in bo1, the other "not so good" team then has to play a really big team in decider just because they somehow lost on a bo1. But i still think the swiss format makes the most sense in CS tbh.
2016-11-03 13:09
#25
 | 
Syria Gonezxzx 
We learned never to host an event in Brazil again.
2016-11-03 12:51
#29
 | 
North America offmana 
Don't agree with lack of leadership in NA. There are a few people(they know who they are)who need to arrange their life and answer the call for the sport.
2016-11-03 12:54
#33
 | 
Poland kiero 
ESL format sucks BR sucks SK sucks Fallen MVP lol
2016-11-03 13:01
MVP is voted by the fans, did u really expect those Brazilians vote for a C9 player ?
2016-11-03 20:10
We learned that online league is a really bad format for defining which teams are worthy to play on lan, that NA needs less slots in favor of EU\Asia region, and that a tournament without 2 top teams is not as exciting to watch as with them in, oh yeah, forgot to mention - it's better to not host t1 tournament in Brazil in the near future. But ESL never learns.
2016-11-03 13:02
At most, NA should only lose 1 spot. C9, SK, IMT, Liquid, and OpTic have proven to be legit international teams. And since there are 5 teams in the NA pro league that are not even North American, I don't think it is fair that they lose any spots at all. NaVi, VP, and G2 need to improve online.
2016-11-03 13:12
Liquid, Optic and Immortals didn't show anything what so ever, even though they got in the easier group. Biggest disappointment of the tournament is Immortals, in my book a team that suppose to if not top, but to pass this group easily. Liquid is trash, they got lucky in NY on opponents. Optic passed the group stage but they didn't deserve it and got trashed by C9 later just to prove my point, another luck on the draw with Fnatic unable to participate. So, 4 wasted spots, but other 2 were fighting each other in finals, so I guess 4 is good enough for NA region, but give rest to Asia or EU, don't waste them. It's not just about playing bad online, it's also about ping, NiP ddos, uncomfortable communications and lack of the crowd cheering for you. Online matches should decide nothing.
2016-11-04 08:51
As for as your argument for lowering NA slots, you're looking at the results for just one tournament. While I agree that Liquid and Immortals have cooled down a bit, they both have had fantastic results in international tournaments in the last year. OpTic, on the other hand, do not have amazing results but are improving quickly. I think it would be fair to give the Oceanic region a spot if Renegades and Winterfox returned to AUS. Unfortunately, they would play against Asian opponents with a ridiculously high ping, so that's not possible. You have to account for the fact that there are 2 SA teams, 2 A US/NZ teams, and a European team in the NA league. Edit: However, I do agree that online CS sucks. I wish there were a better system.
2016-11-04 13:16
Immortals latest lan achievements: Unable to qualify for Cologne Last place at Eleague 2 Basically last place in San Paolo They won two international t2 tournaments and this is why I think they deserve a slot, but there is no Showtime anymore, no Peacekeeper, even Zews left and they are most likely going to lose Felps soon, Immortals are nowhere right now. All Liquid achievements due S1mple period are doesn't count anymore, because S1mple was that secret mechanism making them tier 1 team, and now they lost Peacekeeper as well. For top 4 at NY they should say thanks to Astralis and G2 who just came here to waste spots. Optic has some potential, but so is NRG or majority tier 2 Eu teams, but for some reason these tier 2 EU teams has 0 chances to get into lan finals, while NRG and Optic actually can get almost a free one, it's ridiculous to be honest. Yes, there are not just NA teams in NA online league, but EU league also has teams from CIS region, as well as more competitive scene and more teams in general, but they got same amount of slots. I can't say it's fair.
2016-11-05 09:44
#79
 | 
Brazil wAc 
actually the event was great for esl, great public, lots of sponsors and cheaper for them to make than in 1st world countrys
2016-11-03 16:32
But not for players who are forced to play in the toilets and trying to rest under a noise from construction site, experience not so clear water while trying to avoid insects - not the best conditions for the tournaments, I think. Not the best viewers experience either.
2016-11-04 08:57
#102
 | 
Brazil wAc 
there is no insects in sao paulo, there is so much pollution that the bugs can't breath, i was there at the event and the crowd loved, the only player that i saw that seemed to be hating the event was niko
2016-11-04 18:33
#92
 | 
North America Foxaika 
Online is supposed to be less stressful and easier right? Their fault for not taking advantage
2016-11-04 08:02
Stressful for who? ESL? Online format is used only because it's the easiest way to produce content while spamming ads from sponsors, ESL could potentially make EU Eleague with only lan matches, but it's too expensive to organize, cheaper to force teams play online under poor conditions.
2016-11-04 09:05
#99
 | 
North America Foxaika 
I'm saying that teams are praised for doing better in LAN environments because supposedly the competition is tougher, the matches are more even, etc. NaVi and VP should be winning in online as well. "It's online" is no excuse for them not qualifying in my opinion. It's not as if the games are random or something when played online. Other teams manage to make it work. Doubt it has to do with poor conditions that literally everyone has to deal with.
2016-11-04 13:59
So you understand that online and lan environments are different, I hope you also understand that teams and players are no equal and some play better under certain environment, and worse under another. But lan is superior, and lan results is what matter in the end, and when it comes to lan results: you can clearly see Navi and VP finishing at least at top 4 consistently. Online? Not so much, VP were unable to qualify for finals for the 3rd time in a row, and Navi for a 2nd time. #EasternEuropeProblems
2016-11-05 09:46
#107
 | 
North America Foxaika 
Which is their own fault. I don't think the environments are so different to that the results should take them from being a top team, honestly.
2016-11-05 14:42
dignitas told you: never jump into conclusions! They won a tournament: "omg they're T1". They failed right after that: "...". The same goes for C9, Na`Vi, nV, NiP and so on. Let them show their true level at several tournaments in a row, and only then make any conclusions.
2016-11-03 13:08
#53
f0rest | 
India compL1 
I agree. Some teams win 1 tournament and HLTV ranking puts them in top 3. They do not care about how shitty the team was in past 6 months.
2016-11-03 13:43
Even Immortals won a tournament (over NiP) :-)
2016-11-03 14:11
It's fine to use GSL as long as you use Bo3s for all matches. The round robin can work a lot better if you make teams face each other twice.
2016-11-03 13:10
#45
kNgV- | 
Brazil vicTHOR 
We learned that SK hiddes strats before majors
2016-11-03 13:11
Major is so long away lol saving strats ofc
2016-11-03 13:52
#49
 | 
Luxembourg alex24 
we larned that even if SK got rekted and hasn`t won anything since cologne... according to hltv they are still top1...
2016-11-03 13:26
+1 they did not even say in this topic that SK sucks atm
2016-11-03 14:12
The last 5 big tournaments have different winners, how do you want to judge that sk is not top 1 anymore?
2016-11-03 17:57
+1, and ppl don't seem to understand Hltv ranking anyway.
2016-11-03 20:12
#91
 | 
Luxembourg alex24 
how can a team be top1 if it won only 3 big events in the whole year ?? after fnatic was eliminated last year from cluj, they were insta demoted from top1, and envy took their place but heh... ppl don`t understand hltv ranking...
2016-11-04 06:54
Seems you cannot understand that a major is worth much mote points in the achievements rating than a single big tournament. If VP had qualified for EPL finals maybe they would be top 1.
2016-11-04 11:14
#98
 | 
Luxembourg alex24 
a major with liquid in the finals ? are just installed cs ? :D
2016-11-04 13:40
Lol, just accept you don't get the way points are calculated. A major > Every other tournaments, no matter the teams u beat.
2016-11-04 22:18
#111
 | 
Luxembourg alex24 
username checks out :D valve`s major in 2016 is such a crappy reference, dumb groups, dumb bo1 eliminations, crappy formats... etc
2016-11-07 06:52
Rankings made by algorythms don't care about that kind of stuff (+ nobody was complaining about major format back in 2k14 and 15) Instead of only looking at the results, think about how you get to them. Go check Thoorin's ranking if u wanna see a retarded ranking system. I'm done arguing with u
2016-11-07 18:53
#115
 | 
Luxembourg alex24 
if majors are so important, fnatic won 3 of them, why aren`t they top1 right now ???? just stop it dude... SK didn`t won ANYTHING since cologne, thats almost 4 months ago, and still top1 ? just because they made it to the last ESL lan final ??
2016-11-08 06:51
Cause achievements points slowly decrease once a team don't get significant results ? Srsly stop trying to find idiot excuses I could tell u the same about VP. Why would they be top 1 ? They won ELEAGUE 4 months ago, they lost at WESG against a mix, they didn't even qualified for EPL finals lmao. The truth is there's no clear top 1 atm, and we'll prolly have to wait for next major to say who's top 1.
2016-11-08 18:35
#51
chrisJ | 
Hong Kong Escher 
That denis must be kicked from mouz asap
2016-11-03 13:34
#52
 | 
Turkey FeverSpeed 
We learned that ESL is a shitty company
2016-11-03 13:35
#72
 | 
Sweden godname 
What we learned from Pro League Shit company just shit every match with the stream..
2016-11-03 15:30
BO1 sucks
2016-11-03 16:01
#77
roman | 
Palestine ndr[o] 
what I learned is that back-to-back LANs are boring as hell :/
2016-11-03 16:20
Sk Numba ONE!
2016-11-03 18:12
#FALLSKG
2016-11-03 18:22
#84
 | 
Brazil BuddyINSANE 
Thank you HLTV, we appreciate that! We smart, we loyal, we friendly, we are from BRAZIL!
2016-11-03 20:06
1. Too many big LANs 2. Shitty production by ESL ( terrible stream always crashing, their host barely spoke English, they should have let her speak portuguese and have a guy translating on the stream or smth, like EPICENTER ) 3. Brazilian crowd is boring as hell once their team loses. Oh but we knew that already, my bad :)
2016-11-03 20:15
lul
2016-11-05 16:48
we've learned that ESL should never organize any more tournaments in brazil only for $$.
2016-11-06 23:17
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