BARBARR: “I think Plopski is better than Brollan”

André "BARBARR" Möller and his Swedish side x6tence Galaxy spoke to Max Melit of behalf of HLTV.org after their big upset series win over LDLC in the group stage of DreamHack Open Winter 2018.

x6tence Galaxy won in dominant fashion on the first map, Nuke, with a 16-4 scoreline. The second map, Mirage, was a closer affair, ending 16-14, but the Swedes' strong CT-side managed to keep them alive. Youngsters Tim "nawwk" Jonasson and Nicolas "Plopski" Gonzalez Zamora were the biggest points of individual interest.

BARBARR feels like he's been "reborn" in x6tence galaxy

In our interview with the 28-year-old, BARBARR talks about how his journey has been back from Epsilon, the integration of young talent, and expectations for the rest of the tournament:

In front of a home crowd, you've managed to score an incredible upset against LDLC in a BO3. Could you talk me through how you're feeling generally to begin with?

It's amazing just to qualify. That was our goal, it wasn't our goal as much is it was our dream to qualify for Dreamhack Open Winter here in Sweden. It's an amazing feeling to not finish last in the tournament (laughs). This is a learning phase for us like I wrote yesterday on Twitter. And it's only young guys and they just need to learn how it is to be on bigger stages and stuff like this. This is helping very much, to win a game like this against the 12th best team in the world.

The player who caught most peoples eye was Plopski, many haven't heard about him before this tournament. Could you talk a little about him individually and what you see in his game?

Plopski is probably the biggest talent alongside Brollan in Sweden right now. He's evolving really fast and this guy is 16 years old. Together with nawwk, they're a power duo and they're really, really firing off on every cylinder as well. I think Plopski is better than Brollan in my eyes. He has huge potential. He has been playing like this online but not in the bigger games because we haven't been in the bigger games yet. It's amazing to see nawwk and Plopski fire off and ZINKEN and baaten have a little bit more experience but... It's really amazing to see. I hope he keeps evolving like this.

Speaking of these younger players, you and Alex ("rdl" Redl) have a clear role in helping them as sort-of mentors as the most experienced people on the side. What do you do specifically to help enable big performances like we saw today?

It's more taking away the stress factor. It's a big tournament, there are many people watching and everything. So you just have to get them into that practicing mode as they say. You have to show them with your energy and everything that this is not dangerous, this is fun. We don't have any pressure going into this tournament. It's more about removing the stress factor and helping them with anything they need mentally. You can see it pretty clearly on the younger guys, so I think me and Alex are working hard to get them level headed before games.

For yourself, a lot of people reading this interview will know your name from the Epsilon line-up that featured draken, disco doplan, REZ, and Freddieb, how is this for you individually?

It's an amazing feeling, I've been on and off the radar now for quite some time since Epsilon and I feel like I'm reborn. I think I'm playing, reading, and calling, some good CS right now that I think can work against top teams. It's just a dream, I'm smiling through this entire event. Every minute, and hour on DreamHack playing games is just amazing. My mother and brother see me [play] for the first time also which is amazing. To see their smiles and their happiness when we're winning is the best feeling so far.

Looking ahead, even though you got this upset over LDLC there are still maps to play against compLexity. What can you bring to this matchup that may cause another upset result?

They should be scared of the firepower we have. There are not many teams who they can face in terms of the firepower we have. We've been called the biggest onliners in EU pretty much for a while now. I mean, now we have proved we can play on LAN now, so all the stress is gone. Plopski and nawwk had good games on LAN - that pressure is gone. So I think they should be scared because we aren't scared to lose. We think this is a fun tournament and the teams that have nothing to lose are the teams you should fear.

Max Melit covers DreamHack Open Winter 2018 for HLTV.org and can be found on twitter.

Sweden Tim 'nawwk' Jonasson
Tim 'nawwk' Jonasson
Age:
21
Team:
Rating 1.0:
1.15
Maps played:
341
KPR:
0.78
DPR:
0.64
APR:
0.10
Sweden Nicolas 'Plopski' Gonzalez Zamora
Nicolas 'Plopski' Gonzalez Zamora
Age:
17
Team:
Rating 1.0:
1.06
Maps played:
446
KPR:
0.73
DPR:
0.66
APR:
0.15
Sweden André 'BARBARR' Möller
André 'BARBARR' Möller
Age:
29
Team:
No team
Rating 1.0:
0.99
Maps played:
865
KPR:
0.68
DPR:
0.68
APR:
0.13
ok i dont think so xDD
2018-12-01 13:54
#12
 | 
Europe _EpiC_ 
hawdup
2018-12-01 13:56
#121
 | 
Czech Republic Peks123 
WTF IS HE RETARDED?
2018-12-01 15:42
xaxaxaxaxaaxa
2018-12-01 16:21
#155
 | 
Austria shaakeh 
Hahahahahaha
2018-12-01 17:29
You mean Brolame yeah that guy must suck
2018-12-01 23:25
#18
 | 
Sweden Unluko 
xD
2018-12-01 13:57
I think I much better than Plopski so maybe I need to join fnatic ? Is this true math ?????????
2018-12-01 14:04
they have around the same stats. brollan didnt improve godsent when he joined their level remained the same. he still posted his same numbers. he went to a better team. he didnt really improve them he still post his own numbers. switch brollan with plopski he can probably do the same thing hltv.org/stats/players/compare/14218/Plo..
2018-12-01 14:33
u mean switch brollan with me and switch me with plopski ?
2018-12-01 14:34
#2
 | 
Switzerland meme_jesus 
S1mple > all
2018-12-01 13:55
#29
Aleksib | 
Spain L3gi13 
+1
2018-12-01 14:01
Wololos death my friend why not MR?
2018-12-01 14:44
I didnt even know that i had wololos xD
2018-12-01 15:42
Xd mal spanish friend
2018-12-01 21:15
XD
2018-12-05 20:38
#3
s1mple | 
India S1ayR 
plopski
2018-12-01 13:55
#4
 | 
Poland friendlySeb 
no
2018-12-01 13:55
he mean plopski is better than brollan without private cheat
2018-12-01 13:55
And wich one is with cheats?
2018-12-01 14:04
#53
 | 
Pakistan MeMeMeisteR2 
+1
2018-12-01 14:12
#83
JW | 
United Kingdom Roarhaven 
Wrong website m8, go to www.reddit.com/r/vacsucks
2018-12-01 14:34
you can't cheat on valve secure servers.
2018-12-01 15:54
#138
JW | 
United Kingdom Roarhaven 
If you think top pros are cheating (any team in the top 30) then you’re beyond help.
2018-12-01 16:18
#177
 | 
Australia CaZeR01 
+1
2018-12-02 02:26
japp
2018-12-01 13:55
Nt
2018-12-01 13:55
Plopski is on x6tence Galaxy and brollan is on fnatic :)
2018-12-01 13:56
XANTARES is on Space Soldiers and styko is on mouz
2018-12-01 14:02
#35
 | 
Macedonia nemanyacs 
u r dumb if u think that if xantares came to mouz they would be better
2018-12-01 14:03
they actually would
2018-12-01 14:08
#48
 | 
Macedonia nemanyacs 
haha and who would be the support?
2018-12-01 14:09
suppurt role is overrated. You can't fail having ropz sunny and XANTARES as riflers in the same team
2018-12-01 14:10
#51
 | 
Macedonia nemanyacs 
faze has olof rain niko still cant do shit
2018-12-01 14:11
#62
oskar | 
Czech Republic PlaSSma 
True rekt
2018-12-01 14:18
Like mouz can do anything
2018-12-01 14:34
faze are a top 5 team wtf you talking about also they have braindead karrigan Also XANTARES ropz sunny trio is in better shape than olof rain niko atm.
2018-12-01 17:28
#158
 | 
Macedonia nemanyacs 
first of all no its not,and second faze is top5 but they will never be more then that
2018-12-01 17:41
They were top 1 for a long time with the same line-up, they definitely have the potential to be top 3 or 2.
2018-12-01 18:01
RAIN AND OLOF 2018
2018-12-01 20:00
#50
jOELZ | 
Europe P3rial 
Shh, they think that it's all about pushing sites and enemies
2018-12-01 14:11
ignore him turkish people dont know anything about roles in sport or sport in general... just check out how bad turkey is in pretty much every sport out there xantares is just overrated af... turkish people him calyx and paz are top players ... so how come that they are still not a top 10 team? yeah right cuz they are tier 2 players
2018-12-01 14:20
thank you. you just managed to trigger me. hard feat tbh. you are stereotyping and it is not nice. its like saying all dem ookin brits have crooked yellow teeth.we all know its not true altho i might say our dental issues are far less than you guys. turkey is not bad in every sport wtf? whats the most popular sports in here? football and basketball. id say we are an ok football nation with ups and down mostly about infrastructural issues and mental deelopment. we always produce amazing talented kids who turn out to be partying retards and hence they cant do shit. they cant play overseas that much because of eu restrictions. also language barrier since footballers tend to be peasants like uk players. i mean who would try to be a proffesional athlete knowingly, you cant know whether you will succeed. its dumb. we are pretty good in basketball. i think we sent most of the players to the nba after spain and france. most did good. some have rings some got some awards or attended all star games. other sports we dont give a fuck all about. compared to enland id say we re better in football. first of ll epl is mostly foreigners and brits cant do shit by themselves. turkey on the other hand as a weaker nation had more success in national tournaments after the 2000s. when was the last world cup you won? 1955? and that is considering the money you got on your league lol. lets go back to cs. i never claimed ss guys were t1. but their talents are on par with top players of their role and stature. xntares is a fucking tank and he almost always wins a straight 1v1duel. he might be a bit braindead but his aim and spray is fucking godlike. calyx is a baiter and a passive moron but he has such a fucking crisp aim and his positioning is fucking finesse. in a pug he usually outfrags everyone. just check fpl. woxic is the best pure awper on lan in 2018. not counting hybrids who also rifle. ofc he aint a s1mple. but i dare say he had a better year than guardian and oskar. how come they are not a top 10 team? being a top 10 team requires grit, luck, money and organziatonal backing which the ss guys lack. qualifying to epl and then making to lan with their 60+ ping is a fucking miracle. they also made the legends on the major from eu. they are an inconsistent team with a shit support player who lacks an aim and a brain and maj3rs calling is failing them lately. you also have to understand maj3r is french and ngin is german and their accent to my ears is trying to understand jamie carragher speaking english. to be consistent in the top 10 you need invites. ss dont get invites.without invites you gotta pass thru closed qualifiers in eu. with shit ping. its fucking hard. vp have been ass for the past 2 years. they were still on top 30 until last week. why? BECAUSE THEY GET INVITED TO FUCK TON OF EVENTS. anyway im not saying ss are amazing or anything but they got immense potential. they might fuck up a bit like that wesg final because they lack real xp still. and they might ot into situationss like that on the major playing with the coach which is a shame really. anyway rant over. thanks for trigger.
2018-12-01 15:50
british cs talking lul
2018-12-01 17:31
The UK has no csgo scene. Only one good player who literally has to play in a german team because everyone else in the UK sucks. The best premier league players have been from outside the UK. What do you have left? Oh Cricket, I guess you're pretty decent at Cricket yeah.
2018-12-01 21:20
and yet the uk is 1000times better than turkey mr.noflagger xd
2018-12-02 16:52
Yes you have that... the UK is 1000x better at Cricket than Turkey.
2018-12-02 18:34
in pretty much everything but nt 3rdy
2018-12-02 18:35
Yeah... which UK team is it that Space Soldiers can't beat again? Oh right, there are no UK teams.
2018-12-02 18:37
yeah cuz the whole world is about cs btw uk two major quarterfinals players turkey non
2018-12-02 18:39
UK best rating 1.09, Turkey 1.22
2018-12-02 19:35
uk two major quarterfinals players rest does not matter uk >>> turkey all the way
2018-12-02 19:37
HAHAHAHHA player =/= team so it doesn't count. In terms of raw skill Turkey > UK. /closed izi Press the button on the bottom right if you're crying.
2018-12-02 21:59
arent you the one who started to cry by scrolling down a random news and responding? xd you cant even show your flag but keep on going 3rdy
2018-12-02 22:01
case closed
2018-12-03 00:34
support role isnt overrated. its a fucking important role. but a better player playing that role would be better. snax refused to do it. ngin isnt shit because he is a support player. he is a shit player because his aim is shit.
2018-12-01 14:31
#101
 | 
Macedonia nemanyacs 
but u only need so much aim
2018-12-01 14:57
roles are more flexible than you think it is. For example let's say ropz and XANTARES are entrying and sunny is being the support player. Throwing flashes etc. If ropz and xantares die, you still have a star player left cuz sunny is a fucking beast. Almost anyone who can control their in game ego can be a support player
2018-12-01 17:34
true. but the role itself isnt overrated like people are saying and its not just about throwing flashes. it also means playing passive or in positions you are likely to get fragged and hard to get frags. you cant make plays and possibly not in comfortable situation. they also dont choose the spots they play in so support palyers need to be calm and collected. you lose your calm you lose your aim and confidence. if you are ngin or deadfox you lack all those and plus your aim. hence styko fugly and rubino are good players who can statistically be better in other roles. but ngin cant. cuz he is shit.
2018-12-01 17:43
#159
 | 
United States ferric 
It's not because snax wasn't willing to play it, it's because he wasn't good at it, simple as that. Just like a support cant become a star player very quickly, a star player cant become a support that quickly. Both would need a ton of experience before being able to do it well.
2018-12-01 17:42
from what i read from the players snax did not like stykos spots and role and they changed a bunch of roels and positions to suit his needs. he sucked after all that change as well. i agree with your points but i dont think its true after playing this game for a couple of thousand hours you are usually prepared for anything unless its a super drastic change like being an awper all of a sudden.
2018-12-01 17:45
#166
 | 
World nakTriceps 
mate ur everywhere
2018-12-01 18:37
kkkkkkkk (:
2018-12-01 18:37
#91
 | 
Spain Arhlex 
who is the support in Faze,MIBR?
2018-12-01 14:43
#103
 | 
Macedonia nemanyacs 
mibr i think tarik,faze no idea
2018-12-01 14:58
#134
frozen | 
Slovakia t4gg3d 
Tarik, Olof
2018-12-01 16:00
#160
 | 
United States ferric 
Faze, probably olof and karrigan and MIBR would be tarik or coldzera.
2018-12-01 17:43
The support role is fluent in the current meta. Sure you need passive players to support the offensive players (entryfragger/awpers etc) but everyone playing a decent level of cs can do everything but are specialized in their role. However there is so many factors in cs that its impossible to play with set roles 100% of the time wich means everyone needs to be able to do everything but awp or call.
2018-12-01 19:51
#55
f0rest | 
Sweden S3bluen 
+1
2018-12-01 14:14
Wow! +100000000000
2018-12-01 17:19
#114
LEo | 
Denmark FELIXXD 
I guess any astralis player is better than s1mple then :)
2018-12-01 15:31
#9
 | 
Lithuania Fuksas 
Who?
2018-12-01 13:56
X D
2018-12-01 13:56
#11
liTTle | 
CIS Dowa) 
toxic
2018-12-01 13:56
#13
swag | 
United Kingdom sc4rycs 
lol
2018-12-01 13:56
#14
 | 
Brazil fuNNa 
PLOPSKI ????????
2018-12-01 13:56
#15
 | 
Europe andy_ 
Who?
2018-12-01 13:57
NikoRekter
2018-12-01 14:02
Who?
2018-12-01 13:57
SimpleRekter
2018-12-01 14:02
no
2018-12-01 13:57
who is this guy???
2018-12-01 13:57
#136
 | 
Malta Kozlovek 
Better player than forsaken Ofc i mean plopski
2018-12-01 16:15
Why would you say that :D
2018-12-01 13:57
i think u have autism
2018-12-01 13:58
Fighting words
2018-12-01 13:58
#23
s1 | 
Ukraine mpletop1 
brollan almost beat astralis while plopski struggles vs t8 teams yeah, I don't think so
2018-12-01 13:58
#79
shox | 
India iejesus 
brollan or fnatic? Lmfao
2018-12-01 14:31
Both
2018-12-01 14:57
#24
rain | 
Malaysia st0ffe1 
wins against LDLC, then says hes better than Brollan wow okay.
2018-12-01 13:59
BARBARR is my idol
2018-12-01 13:59
good man.
2018-12-01 14:06
BARBARR is my idol
2018-12-01 13:59
+1
2018-12-01 14:06
seems like someone is salty LOL
2018-12-01 13:59
#28
 | 
Czech Republic _s0 
No u
2018-12-01 13:59
#30
 | 
Other Nagardien 
Barrbar is rigth, time will tell guys.
2018-12-01 14:01
#31
 | 
Brazil Cariocazera 
who think who is better than brolan? LUL
2018-12-01 14:01
#36
 | 
Nepal permyxd 
HAHAHAHAHAH
2018-12-01 14:03
Who is barbarr and popski?
2018-12-01 14:04
nt newfag
2018-12-01 14:07
One win against french chokers dead scene and he starts being delusional
2018-12-01 14:05
i dont think so
2018-12-01 14:06
#45
 | 
Brazil digozamaral 
No
2018-12-01 14:07
Sorry , who ?
2018-12-01 14:09
#52
 | 
Malaysia byaIi 
Brollan > sweden
2018-12-01 14:11
LUL TIER 4 POOPSCI
2018-12-01 14:14
16y old could be better, why not, he is so young.
2018-12-01 14:15
O O F
2018-12-01 14:16
#58
 | 
Germany sunnyrain 
wtf is that name xd
2018-12-01 14:16
0/8
2018-12-01 14:16
Who???
2018-12-01 14:16
Yea right thats why brollan already in fnatic playing international turnys already
2018-12-01 14:16
#63
 | 
Slovakia gayzera 
+1. They had really close match against Astralis. While x6tence Galaxy struggling to win tier 3 events
2018-12-01 14:18
Yup barbar is high on pot
2018-12-01 15:04
#64
 | 
Other NDRnews 
Plopski was top 1 in faceit Sweden when he was 15 I think it's better than brollan
2018-12-01 14:19
Lol base on faceit, nt newfag
2018-12-02 05:22
#65
 | 
Sweden ScineLy1 
yeah he is.
2018-12-01 14:20
Yes
2018-12-24 03:23
#67
 | 
Turkey Punkertifo 
true
2018-12-01 14:21
So many players in Swedish CS... But still their teams are getting trough some tough times... Hope they will come back stronger... And winning stuff.
2018-12-01 14:22
#69
 | 
Austria I_love_Hltv 
Who is better than brollan?
2018-12-01 14:22
Plopski
2018-12-01 14:22
#70
Zeus | 
Finland Olter 
Brollan most overrated player ever after disco doplan
2018-12-01 14:22
#80
 | 
United Arab Emirates p1peb0mb 
well brollan was carrying disco on godsent
2018-12-01 14:31
#104
Zeus | 
Finland Olter 
True but disco was supposed to be new olof
2018-12-01 15:01
rude
2018-12-01 14:22
#73
shox | 
France KR1MEZ 
XD
2018-12-01 14:25
prove or i'll?
2018-12-01 14:26
N6B8M8
2018-12-01 14:27
Brollan is not good. He Just young.
2018-12-01 14:27
#77
 | 
Lithuania KoksSkirtumas 
Espiranto> both.
2018-12-01 14:29
any mge player > overrated kid espiranto
2018-12-01 14:34
#89
 | 
Europe LowAlching 
XDXDXD
2018-12-01 14:39
#85
 | 
Cyprus Swishh_ 
did anyone expect him to say "brollan is better than my current teammate"? lol
2018-12-01 14:34
#118
ile | 
Finland Vkims 
No but he could have just said that both players are very talented. No need to make this kind of statement
2018-12-01 15:34
#88
Xyp9x | 
Portugal CRMN1 
The fact that I don't know Plopski tells a story.
2018-12-01 14:39
That you have beeing at sleep for the last year?
2018-12-01 15:44
#178
Xyp9x | 
Portugal CRMN1 
Alright, because Plopski has been all over hltv and shit. Brollan's relevance compared to this guy is monstruous.
2018-12-02 03:51
#90
 | 
Spain elskio 
Check JW‘s tweet lul
2018-12-01 14:42
#93
Jame | 
Belarus RedScreed 
Nawwk to nip pls
2018-12-01 14:47
#94
 | 
Europe trey_ 
ayyyy edgy
2018-12-01 14:49
i arent think that xdd
2018-12-01 14:49
#96
 | 
Kazakhstan ezBORAT 
Plopski is so smart and talent boy. Plopski is lCS Plopski is life Let's go Plopski continue to improve!
2018-12-01 14:50
#97
 | 
United States JustBitsy 
Savage
2018-12-01 14:53
who said that who is better than who?
2018-12-01 14:53
Who asked?
2018-12-01 16:59
#99
 | 
Belgium YoGatesKevin 
BARBARR is such a good cs player and IGL. You just can’t like this genius. Very underrated player. Respectfully, Proud Liquid Fan since Faceit Major.
2018-12-01 14:56
#135
Per0N | 
Venezuela 643 
Good option for fnatic along with hampus
2018-12-01 16:04
#100
 | 
Spain lickill 
He is 16 and very talented, we will see in the future
2018-12-01 14:57
#131
 | 
Germany PeKay 
No
2018-12-01 15:56
LULW
2018-12-01 15:03
#117
ile | 
Finland Vkims 
Brutal. Savage. Rekt.
2018-12-01 15:32
I arent think that
2018-12-01 15:13
#109
 | 
Brazil MarieLaMary 
he's not next
2018-12-01 15:16
#110
 | 
Argentina Fa7e07 
expected
2018-12-01 15:19
#111
 | 
Europe Freeburger97 
ok thanks for info
2018-12-01 15:26
zulul
2018-12-01 15:28
HAHAHAHAHAHA
2018-12-01 15:30
#115
mopoz | 
Spain msrCS 
I see a lot of people replying: "Who?" So now I reply how the hell you can say hes not better, when the 90% of you never saw him play until yesterday, i dont get it.
2018-12-01 15:31
very true
2018-12-01 15:32
gonzales zamora? that niBBa aint swedish
2018-12-01 15:35
Who is better than who?
2018-12-01 15:39
Dude's name is gonzales, nothing more to say about "swedish talent"
2018-12-01 15:46
Who?
2018-12-01 15:46
#127
 | 
Germany PeKay 
Brollan vs Tier 1 plopski vs who?
2018-12-01 15:53
#128
 | 
Israel Aaron_btc 
a washed up players opinion lul
2018-12-01 15:53
who is plopski?
2018-12-01 15:55
#132
 | 
Lithuania KingOfPing 
Unknown team had 1 win against washed up team and think they are top players :D :D :D
2018-12-01 16:00
EZ4JW3XMAJORWINNER /close
2018-12-01 16:00
#137
World non 
his a great talent but the thing is can he show it against high level of gameplay , twist was one of the biggest talented players sweden ever had and i dont think he have shown it in fantic so far. Same is whit rez he just started to rise in nip , problem whit swedish counterstrike now is that there is a lot of upcoming pros / talents but we lack support players and really good ingame leaders . sweden was top 1 for a very long time cuz we could mostly win cuz of raw skill , but when other ppl catch upp in skill we dont have much else to show for. All the swedish players right now wanna be the start that shines and nobody wanna do the work that needs to be done for the star players to shine. We need players like olof that just whit his abitly to work on the map make the opponents so confused and getting alot of info . Then swedish top players need to start play more cs again, most of the players in nip and fantic plays 50% less of what simple and other ppl do.
2018-12-01 16:17
With*
2018-12-01 16:42
nawwk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
2018-12-01 16:23
#141
 | 
Sweden Velocityyy 
LOL
2018-12-01 16:31
True, and nawwk is even better! nawwk is the swedish version of zywoo
2018-12-01 16:34
Plopski is the future of Swedish CS, mark my words ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wanna buy the best apples in HLTV? call me NOW: 011-1337-APPLE and get an 80% discount on your first 5 kilos!
2018-12-01 16:41
Shots fired
2018-12-01 16:42
#146
 | 
Sweden meistr0 
lol???
2018-12-01 16:43
who is brolan
2018-12-01 16:44
+1 the spanish prodigy
2018-12-01 16:53
great interview, huge respect to BARBARR! hardworking player and IGL, underrated and have been playing on teams below his level for most of his career but never gives up
2018-12-01 17:03
hahahaha ok
2018-12-01 17:14
it's true, plopski > brollan tbh
2018-12-01 17:13
Dude even MSL > poopski
2018-12-02 13:56
poggers twitch confirmed
2018-12-01 17:47
maybe, we’ll see
2018-12-01 17:52
i remember a barbarr 4k spraydown
2018-12-01 19:12
This is unexpected this guy was a bot a few months ago with singularity, like shitty tier 3
2018-12-01 19:21
Flopski
2018-12-02 14:44
Login or register to add your comment to the discussion.