CR4ZY CEO: "We accumulated around €20,000 of debt towards former players; this is my public apology to them"

During the New Challengers Stage of the StarLadder Major, we sat down with the CEO of CR4ZY, Antonio Meic, who opened up about his organization paying off outstanding debts to former players, and shared information about a potential franchised league in Counter-Strike.

The interview took place after CR4ZY defeated DreamEaters, securing a place in the New Legends Stage among the top 16 teams in Berlin (full video version). Mr. Meic approached us with the information that CR4ZY (formerly Valiance), had amassed a debt of over €20,000 from prize money to former members, including, according to information that HLTV.org has gathered, players such as Anel "NENO" Ceković, Đorđe "DJOXiC" Niciforović, and coach Darko "soLo" Mitić.

CR4ZY's CEO stressed that, despite prize money issues, salaries have been paid out on time

Mr. Meic said that the organization pulled additional funds from their investors to clear the debt to the players ahead of the Major but still decided to be "fully transparent" about the situation, thanking the players for their patience, without which, he says, CR4ZY would not have been able to make it to the Major.

CR4ZY's CEO also talked about buyout prices, mentioning that he has had offers between €75,000 and €250,000 for some of his players, which he described as "joke offers", and also stated that running a team such as his costs between €500,000 and €750,000 per year. Lastly, he mentioned that ESL is currently in talks about a franchised Valve-supported league, and cited a $2 million buy-in price for it.

The main part of this interview is tied to the fact that you wanted to go public about your organization owing some money to former players. Let's just start with that. How does that happen, how do you get into the situation?

I was motivated to do this by the recent development with NiP, everything that Richard Lewis was covering, what happened with Echo Fox and some other organizations. There is a lot of shit going on in esports and I always like to be fully transparent around some things that are not good, and I have colleagues telling me, 'ok, we shouldn't go public with this, we shouldn't go public with that' — which is fine, but I sincerely think that there are certain things that we can discuss. And I think we should first start discussing things about ourselves, cleaning up our own mess.

So basically, we went into the Counter-Strike with our team sometime in 2017, my vision was to go into a game from which I could learn how the tier 1 esports worked, how the environment worked, because at the time, we [Valiance] were organizing mobile videogame tournaments for kids, basically, and I wanted to get some insight into Counter-Strike. Basically, the team was successful to some extent, we were happy, but it was always a secondary thing I was doing next to the content production and [mobile videogames] tournament organization.

Throughout that period, the main part of the business was going through ups and downs and at some point we had difficulties with cash flow, which would usually happen between investment cycles, but with the high revenue we had in 2018, with all of the content production we did, we were always catching up with everything. As our investment was going low and as we are in a very volatile business, the prize pools that would hit our account we would use as normal cash flow to cover some other debt. Long story short, this year we accumulated somewhere around €20,000 of debt towards former players and this is mostly prize pool money. Because prize pool money usually comes months after we win it, and we changed our roster significantly, we changed the coach, several players, new players came in, and you know, these skeletons were in the closet.

With our decision to fully focus on esports, our revenue was hit very badly. We lost 90% of our production revenue in terms of content and this is where the majority of the problems started to happen. So it happened slowly, over a period of time, and sometime in the summer of 2018 we lacked full support of our investors, due to other reasons, and then we had this period where for close to half of a year, we were catching up with our own revenue, trying to make everything work, so for us, we went through several near-death experiences where the company was almost about to be bankrupt, but basically we did our best for it not to happen because then our debt to all of our partners and players would be significant. Not only because of myself or the organization or the people, I persisted in pushing the business as far as it could go because I knew that there were certain people who are not forcing us to give them their money, they were politely asking and then months passed until we came to the point where we could say "OK, we can pay back small amounts".

But coming into the Major, I told myself that this had to be resolved now. We had a discussion with our investor and it was very well explained that we could not carry on the debt indefinitely and, basically, we made an arrangement to pay off all of our debt towards the players. I can thank them very much. I think the reason we are here today is that none of those former players threatened, none of them were bad towards the organization, they had immense patience. In multiple situations, I came to them and said 'the money is going to be with you in March', and then in June I would say 'man, it is going to be in October'. So I felt really responsible because I think that at some point everybody owes money to somebody, but when you owe money for so long I didn't want it to be just, 'yeah, we have paid out everything to the players and we are done'. This is my public thanks to them and an apology that they had to wait for so long.

Can you explain a bit more about why owing players money becomes the sacrifice that you decided to make in those situations?

If you are looking at it from a cash flow perspective it is very difficult, CS is a game where players are priority number one, the majority of the prize pools goes to players, the majority of the sticker money goes to players, so organizations are basically dependant on content deals and sponsorship money. We are currently an organization that has very very low revenue because we switched from content production to an esports-only company. That is a big issue because everything needs to be financed from investment, and that is tied to investors and the investors we are working with are requiring certain milestones to be set and met and this is always a catching-up process. It's about how you can reach the next milestone and how you can cover the next part of the cost. But so far it is working well for us because from the beginning of the year, when we said, 'Ok, let's just focus on esports', we have been, at least from an investment side, cash flow positive, we are not lacking anything except that of course, we have a debt to service, and aside from the players we have 10-12 employees, the whole organization has around 16 people. That is a very cash-intensive operation in the end.

How do you ensure that this doesn't happen down the line? Because people may be thinking 'they didn't pay players in the past, if they come to the same point again, they won't pay them again'?

First of all, we have a long-term investment deal with our investors, we are not the kind of a startup that has received an X amount of money and, if the money runs out, there is no more money, because we are not working with that kind of investors. We are working on quarterly-budget levels where we provide our budget needs in estimates and we receive monthly investment from them. Basically, the deal for them is that they have invested so much already into working with us, that for none of us failure is an option. Of course, we all understood that there was debt towards the players, this is now resolved and we are constantly making improvements in collaborations with our players, what we can do to minimize the risk towards players.

So far, in two years, we have paid every salary, we have never been late with salaries. Salaries were always paid between 15th and 25th, the last months it was 14th, 15th. We are trying to be in that cycle. You never know when a business is going to go bankrupt. But it is esports, it is entertainment. We see in our numbers that we are growing, we see in our results that we are doing some smart and good moves. We have a good global strategy so as a brand I don't think we are just going to disappear, you know?

A way of adding to the cash flow is obviously through sponsorships. As we see, you don't have anything on the jerseys right now. A team that has been in the top 20 for six months or more, has good players, how come you don't have a single sponsor on your jersey?

I don't know. My colleagues and I have done significant efforts in trying to acquire sponsorships. Unfortunately, there are two parts of that equation. First, there are results. This Major is the first result that is very serious for us, in front of hundreds of thousands of viewers online. So just now, as a brand, we are getting some visibility. Then, we have a very young roster and our players, unfortunately, have not invested a significant amount of time into their social media channels and now there is a balance that needs to happen between achieving results, growing players as their own brand, growing our own brand, and then the sponsorship money will follow.

We have had some discussions for lower sponsorship values, but I don't want to take Logitech mice and keyboards or equipment because, yeah, it is a nice perk, but the organization burns a lot of money monthly and we need to pay salaries so I'm interested in what we as an organization can offer to sponsors. The kind of content they want to shoot with us, the kinds of editorials, marketing campaigns, etc. We have a great team and this is what we want to offer them. However, the majority of sponsorships come from endemic sponsors and with 15 already established esports brands we now need to fight our way in to get some money towards us.

How much does an organization like yours need to actually function? As you touched on now, it is hard to get a good sponsorship, especially as a lower team, players have a lot of expectations, the community has expectations... is this sustainable?

I definitely have information that some organizations are breaking even, so there is a light at the end of the tunnel. it is about the kind of people you work with.

How much money do we need? Let's say you have a small, functioning organization and you want to compete in Counter-Strike, and I can only speak about the perception coming from South-East Europe, the Adria-Balkan region, you need €500,000-700,000 yearly as a budget. Divide that by 12 and you get a fair estimate of what is minimally needed monthly for an organization that has a team, a coach, a manager, a content team with two or three people, a business development manager, a marketing manager, because in the end, when you look at the content we are doing now, somebody needs to think about it, organize it, and we see how labor-intensive that is, but still, we are trying to make it happen, somehow.

One of the ways organizations can make money is by selling players. You have a pretty talented roster, a young roster, with some exciting players. I think there is no secret that people have been inquiring for huNter- for a long time. My question is: how much can you earn for a player like that? What have the offers so far been like?

The real value comes down to how much someone is willing to pay. It is really difficult to say. Maybe to someone huNter- is worth five million because he is going to fit perfectly in the position and that is a fair price. If they can meet that price it is fine. I have had information about a lot of players on the market, I think the price for players currently revolves between €50,000 and €250,000 on, let's say, not-so-famous players, but still up-and-coming and really good ones. Depending on their marketability and social profile their prices can reach higher numbers. Stars go anywhere between €300,000 up to €1,000,000.

So the market is between €50,000 and a €1,000,000, I've heard rumors of coldzera joining 100 Thieves for a million dollars, who knows? I know 100 Thieves has the money to pay that price but I don't know if they will do it. It is difficult to say, if someone would come and say, as they have, "I want to buy huNter-", it is not about how much I want to sell him for or how much I think he is worth, I'm just going to be thinking: "How much is he worth to you?". My job is to maximize the profit on the player sale. We have never considered selling huNter- because he is a part of our core roster, just like any of our other players. We have had offers so far from several organizations, everything between €75,000 and €250,000. You see where we are, I think these are joke offers.

And now if something happens, we go deep into the New Legends Stage, or maybe luck shits us so hard that we end up there (points at the Mercedes-Benz Arena, where the playoffs will be held), we secure spots at the two next Majors. So how much is it worth to have two Major spots, that is what I'm asking? One million, two million, maybe four million? It is about the market, how much somebody wants to pay, it is a market price and I can't calculate a fair price. For me, huNter- is worth 100 million and I can tell you why. He is one of the most hard-working people that I know. He spends every single second of his time thinking about the game, being in the game and every organization would be so lucky to have him. So for me, he is priceless.

Then again, there are business decisions, there are emotional decisions, there are investors, there is common sense, so I would evaluate any offer that would be on the table that is good enough to be looked at from a business perspective. I think now, with this roster, we are finding a good fit. We are not there yet, we still need to work a lot as a team. You saw that we are not playing the best. But the quality of a great team, as my colleague Alen Šola says, is to win when they are playing like shit, that is what we did yesterday against Dreameaters. But this comes as a culmination of months and months of work of so many people.

Let's say you get to the playoffs and you have Major spots in the future. Is selling off the team one of the options for you?

If someone comes with a bag of money and says, 'look, I have a home for your team that they are going to love', I'm not the person that is going to withhold the next opportunity for my players. There is a cap on salaries I can pay, there are certain conditions I can meet — I don't have an Esports Performance Center for them —, and if the opportunity comes which would take the whole roster we have built to the next level and provide life-changing opportunities for huNter- and my guys, who am I to stop their dreams? So if there is an organization that would like to buy the complete roster and take them to a beautiful home, I think we would just have an awesome, big farewell party. I would not stop them from progressing in a career because our contract lasts for I don't know how long.

I think that we have proven that in the last two years that we know how to build a roster. It is the collaborative work of people in the management of CR4ZY, and I'm ballsy enough to say that if you give me nine months and a sufficient amount of money and freedom I could have a new team in the next Major [cycle] going through all of the things that need to be done to come to the Minor and then the hopefully the Major. I know it is a bold statement but I come from an IT background, from the process-design background, and I think we are thinking through all of the steps we are doing and I think that Counter-Strike, esports, is a low-tech, highly human resources intensive operation and I think we have done a great job in scouting, evaluating players, understanding what their marketability is.

We know this now, with the current roster that is great, of course. We cannot go back with all the mistakes that we made, but we have what we have. Would I sell them? If they are going to a beautiful home, better than the one they have here, and if the price is right, I would not deprive them of that opportunity and I would keep on going in Counter-Strike from the beginning [with a new team], the same grind from top 100 up to top 10.

After the first six months you had with this international lineup, in which the team failed to qualify for the ESL Pro League and for other big tournaments, what would have happened if the Minor had not gone so well and you had not made it to the Major?

I don't know. It is a really tough decision because it would depend on what our investors would want us to do together. Because at that point we would've invested a lot of money without having any kind of a result. ESL Pro League [qualification] is an example of what happens when leagues are run poorly. To win all of those matches (CR4ZY was undefeated in the ESEA MDL regular season) and then to lose one after months of working... I think it is bullshit, I think the system needs to change.

If we had not qualified for the Minor and gone to the Major, I think we would be facing a major team overhaul. Because I would have to do something to show that I'm resolute enough and that I have the vision to reach the next Minor.

There has been a lot of talk about things changing in the CS ecosystem, a franchise league, an exclusive league popping up and taking over, maybe as the main thing. If you are an owner in that kind of a world you have to be in the league, it seems like, to be relevant. Do you know anything about it and what are your thoughts?

What I think is that there are two models, one American, and one European. The US model is based around city-based esports organizations, the trend started with Overwatch and I think it is working very well, not for Overwatch but as a system, because of the topology of the US, the demographical situation where 90% of the population lives in huge metropolitan areas. And you know, it is the US, 10 years ahead of us and I think franchising is a great model depending on the game, the developer...

In terms of Counter-Strike, we live in the Wild West, players are kings, organizations are in a very bad position, sponsors don't necessarily want to go into a shooting game, mostly it is endemic sponsors that understand the situation. So for me, as an owner, it is important to branch out to some of these franchises. Currently, we are looking at Apex Legends, Fortnite, FIFA, and maybe League of Legends. For all of those games, we have a clear vision of the market and of the timeline we can have a team ready for a franchise spot...

But Counter-Strike, I know that the player union is now negotiating with ESL in the US for this, let's call it, "Valve-supported league". I think the information is out there because a lot of people are talking about it. When it is going to happen or if it is going to happen at all, let's see. I think that a league that would be supported by Valve and that would have a buy-in slot would make sense, but only if Valve knows how to do their job. If they leave the job to be done by ESL, who am I going to pay the $2 million buy-in to, ESL? I'm not going to be paying $2 million to ESL for anything because what kind of sponsorship equity are they going to bring to the teams, what are the deals going to be like, and how fast can we recover the cost of buying a franchise spot? So I know it is starting in the US and I know that nobody is talking about Europe, where the strongest teams are.

Serbia Darko 'soLo' Mitić
Darko 'soLo' Mitić
Age:
30
Team:
No team
Rating 1.0:
0.95
Maps played:
90
KPR:
0.63
DPR:
0.66
APR:
0.14
Serbia Đorđe 'DJOXiC' Niciforović
Đorđe 'DJOXiC' Niciforović
Age:
26
Team:
Rating 1.0:
1.08
Maps played:
485
KPR:
0.72
DPR:
0.62
APR:
0.10
Macedonia Anel 'NENO' Ceković
Anel 'NENO' Ceković
Age:
25
Team:
Rating 1.0:
1.03
Maps played:
592
KPR:
0.70
DPR:
0.66
APR:
0.14
thats cr4zy
2019-09-03 13:31
gg
2019-09-03 13:36
trash org
2019-09-03 14:14
its even more cr4zy that the first 6 comments are deleted
2019-09-03 13:43
#98
 | 
Portugal NabasKi 
5
2019-09-03 15:00
wow im stupid
2019-09-03 15:25
#165
 | 
Portugal NabasKi 
xddddd
2019-09-03 18:03
Not more stupid than m16r bro
2019-09-03 18:41
Some mods hate the first spam so they just start deleting them
2019-09-03 17:16
#47
Dosia | 
Europe Lounatus 
+1
2019-09-03 13:57
n1 mens
2019-09-03 14:18
#94
cR4zY | 
Myanmar xdcc 
"Lastly, he mentioned that ESL is currently in talks about a franchised Valve-supported league, and cited a $2 million buy-in price for it." wtf i hope it doesnt end up like the sjw overwatch
2019-09-03 14:47
I dunno man, a league of legends type league would be kinda cool you know.
2019-09-03 16:26
OW sucked, but LOL buy in spots are nice.
2019-09-03 17:17
tldr
2019-09-03 16:16
100 Thieves buy em out Edit: “ And you know, it is the US, 10 years ahead of us“ Important piece
2019-09-03 13:35
ex players
2019-09-03 13:32
Nice title
2019-09-03 13:43
they want a championship winning team
2019-09-03 13:33
They’re almost there, just gotta kick letn1
2019-09-03 13:35
+1, taking someone like kioshima instead of him would even be enough imo
2019-09-03 14:41
#97
 | 
Europe w1ntermu7e 
Kio is fucking toxic
2019-09-03 14:52
#200
 | 
United Kingdom mullacp 
Classic kio is toxic comment over something that happened 3 years ago, sound brother
2019-09-04 01:56
#212
 | 
Europe w1ntermu7e 
Take a look on his streams
2019-09-04 17:06
#221
 | 
United Kingdom mullacp 
i do, whats the issue?
2019-09-04 23:09
#9
 | 
Czech Republic Noxar 
NIP time
2019-09-03 13:32
everyone will read 👍
2019-09-03 13:32
was an interesting read actually
2019-09-03 14:22
#79
 | 
Brazil LordQ 
+1
2019-09-03 14:26
#141
 | 
Serbia d1ckson 
+1
2019-09-03 17:16
#148
 | 
Brazil eoteamo 
+1
2019-09-03 17:33
+1
2019-09-03 17:51
+1
2019-09-03 19:25
this is it chief
2019-09-03 21:17
#201
hecker | 
World heck9r 
absolutely +1
2019-09-04 02:02
#220
 | 
Other sunlikecape 
+1
2019-09-04 23:05
if you can't read such an interesting interview, go back to play Fortnite.
2019-09-03 18:55
#11
 | 
India rohansamal 
This is really interesting. He mentioned a Valve-supported League, wonder how that would look like
2019-09-03 13:32
Cool story tell again
2019-09-03 13:35
Stay uneducated
2019-09-03 13:57
I dont get my education from hltv.org unlike you
2019-09-03 15:39
Kinda seems like it though
2019-09-03 23:02
*Mixwell using Faceapp
2019-09-03 13:36
too cr4zy for me to read men ))))))
2019-09-03 13:36
#21
XELLOW | 
Romania AaLaSt 
Crazy is just crazy.
2019-09-03 13:36
Franchise coz u don't have money to pay ur players? So from where u will have money to buy slot right there? xD Disband please and quit esports.
2019-09-03 13:37
Lol Polish cs lmao ...
2019-09-03 13:43
Repeat to me when players from ur country reach 1/100 what Poland CS players reach. Now u dont have voice to blame our scene.
2019-09-03 13:46
I still have a voice you fucking autistic retard lol. Stop living in the past you idiot when competition was shit , Fnatic was dogshit and NiP was also shit in 2014 when VP won the major.Polish CS is dead , and Serbian CSGO players already achieved more than 1/100 of that Polish players did.
2019-09-03 13:50
#39
 | 
France Il_padrino 
At least Poland scene won a major
2019-09-03 13:54
Lol wtf , not even a top 30 team and you call that a scene ? Shut the fuck up and go back into the hole you crawled out from you baguette.
2019-09-03 13:55
#54
 | 
France Il_padrino 
French scene won 2 major. Poland scene won 1 major I don't see serbia here ;o
2019-09-03 14:03
Those are the only arguments you have , since , French teams are shit flukes getting carried by 1 player. Cr4zy would destroy Shitty2 BTW
2019-09-03 14:14
salt
2019-09-03 14:20
I'm just stating facts , and it was the Polish retard just insulting the team that would whoop his whole scene. But the Frenchie doesn't understand. So this baguette just said something compltely irrelevant to the current situation , and you're saying I'm salty just because they don't have any other argument other than "Hurr durr Polska major"
2019-09-03 14:26
#101
 | 
France Il_padrino 
French scene > Serbian scene Cry is free xD
2019-09-03 15:10
1 man scene, chill baguette
2019-09-03 21:19
#208
 | 
France Il_padrino 
2 teams in the top 10. Nt
2019-09-04 12:06
one is already eliminated from major lulw
2019-09-04 15:10
#210
 | 
France Il_padrino 
And ?
2019-09-04 16:18
men)))
2019-09-04 16:31
What scenes??????????????????
2019-09-03 22:13
#207
 | 
France Il_padrino 
Oh wait... You're right
2019-09-04 11:56
Ur not wrong. Polish scene has been so bad the last 2 years. Like serbian scene>>>>polish scene. Even bulgarian scene ( just cerq and vic1tor etc ) >> polish scene. i would even go as far to say that smooya,alex >>>> polish scene
2019-09-03 19:59
THANK YOU. At least one sensible person in this thread , and you're probably right , Bulgarian scene isn't THAT bad , they're alright , UK have like 3 good players (Smooooooya , Thomas and Alex) and Poland have Snatchie and Michu. So yeah , I would say that both of those countries are better than Poland in terms of CS.
2019-09-03 20:03
yeah lol. VP is their highest ranked team with 47 points. and that is from this gyazo.com/6e4e8676b822c3830d4200b4a74d1c..
2019-09-03 20:32
#86
 | 
Austria doMK0 
Lack of respect for others is not a sign of strength.
2019-09-03 14:37
#198
 | 
Netherlands glennakiN 
+1
2019-09-04 01:01
+1
2019-09-04 18:24
Lol I saw the first comment you dumbass.
2019-09-03 14:02
ignore them
2019-09-03 14:17
Ignore them. This guy is the guy calling people retards and autistic. You kids really do struggle to get a grip of reality.
2019-09-04 18:23
ignore him too i understand what he's doing is not cool, but if he doesn't want to understand there's no hope let him think he won the "battle" so he won't try to prove retarded things
2019-09-04 21:21
HAHAHAHAHA even our izako shits would beat 'best' serbian players 32:0
2019-09-03 16:21
Facts
2019-09-04 18:23
Throws complete shade. Yet those “facts” you were stating were just insults to deplete your stupidity. Have a good try next time Cosa.
2019-09-04 18:22
Not really , they were meant to be insults as well. He just said that the only good Serbian team we have is supposed to disband. But the only "good" teams Poland have are barely in top 30. So yeah , nt burger.
2019-09-04 19:09
polack scene is dead so you guys lose to fucking nemiga lol
2019-09-03 21:20
#45
 | 
Spain G3CK0 
u didnt read, right?
2019-09-03 13:57
doubt he understood half of the interview tbh
2019-09-03 14:24
#76
 | 
Spain G3CK0 
+adhd kid that cant read other than the headline
2019-09-03 14:25
he probably only read the highlighted quotes tbh
2019-09-03 14:28
#110
 | 
Poland ruhoks 
im doing this always
2019-09-03 15:20
interview is very different from what you might get by just reading those
2019-09-03 15:37
#169
 | 
Poland ruhoks 
probably yes but i think those are the most interesting ones
2019-09-03 18:15
Y I don't read. Waste time to read about ceo org who don't pay his players. Header of article give me all what I need to know about him.
2019-09-03 15:25
#145
 | 
Spain G3CK0 
no lol
2019-09-03 17:22
#154
 | 
Indonesia rareguy 
Haha that's exactly why you didn't make sense of the article
2019-09-03 17:51
he said he paid every salary. the 20.000 are debts from prizemoney.
2019-09-03 18:06
#23
 | 
Germany Bier 
Money ruined CS tbh
2019-09-03 13:38
and players. hobbit and mou cant leave Gambit
2019-09-03 13:41
#29
 | 
Croatia feelsbadmane 
ye im sure there would be alot of teams especially older guys playing the game practicing and having to work nightshifts after prac Kappa
2019-09-03 13:45
-1
2019-09-03 14:21
#91
Aleksib | 
Finland Mamppa 
You must be stupid. Money is what makes people to grind themselves to the top, so they could make money.
2019-09-03 14:41
#104
 | 
Germany Bier 
i know you guys weren't born when css and 1.6 were a thing but let me tell you that was the time
2019-09-03 15:16
#118
 | 
Ukraine Chipaet 
This is just your nostalgia. Money made from championships in computer clubs championships in big stadiums
2019-09-03 15:45
#157
 | 
Indonesia rareguy 
-1 if there is no money you won't see ESL making Grand Slam and Major.
2019-09-03 17:52
ESL Franchised League? Don't know what to think about it.
2019-09-03 13:40
good for the scene. Nobody really pays attention to the EPL seasons anyways since is just another tournament
2019-09-03 13:49
#31
tarik | 
Norway MD! 
1.Good that he was transparent about it. 2.Makes you think about how many players out there getting fucked by shady orgs without us knowing and 0 justice. 3.Buyouts getting higher and higher. 4.Valve sponsored ESL league and 2M $ to buy a spot ? idk how to feel about that cuz I don't follow other Esports. (Give us some info about franchi6in other Esports pls mens)
2019-09-03 13:47
Overwatch has a franchised league since 2018 and CoD will also have one soon. I can give you these links, this is as much as I know. liquipedia.net/overwatch/Overwatch_Leagu.. liquipedia.net/callofduty/CWL_Franchisin..
2019-09-03 13:56
#58
tarik | 
Norway MD! 
ty men, 100T dropped Cod just because of it smh
2019-09-03 14:07
#59
walle | 
Australia sini_ 
League of Legends also do this. Nadeshot has a great angle about franchised leagues and how they can hinder growth for team branding. Which is why 100T ain't buying a 25mill spot for the Call of Duty League.
2019-09-03 14:07
TWENTY FIVE FOR COD??? WHOA DUDE
2019-09-03 14:26
#102
 | 
Australia Conflict_GG 
yeah its not worth when COD esports is like tier 2-3 when League Of Legends is like (idk how much but I remember under 10 mil or something maybe 1 mil idk). Someone correct me on how much League Of Legends spots are.
2019-09-03 15:10
Activision not only scamming their clients, but also their promoters LOL
2019-09-03 15:36
It depends for him though. A game like COD isnt as hyped as in 2013, so the 25 million has a lot of risk behind it. He did buy the League of Legends spot because it's a top 3 esport and its only 2 million.
2019-09-03 17:21
#140
 | 
Vietnam EssenEsser 
Overwatch league has completely killed their esports scene and doesnt pull as many viewers as big CS tournaments so I would be worried about one in CS.
2019-09-03 17:14
cod only counts in the USA. In Europe, people give a fuck about it. and OW actually the same but with more SEA influences but in Europe, all these "pro players" are kids and zero fans. Also, Blizzard has a huge problem by selling their franchises. In wc3 sc1/2 you have players as a brand you had stars. Even in HOTS it was possible to create stars but Blizzard fail so hard. Without stars, you don't get a fanbase at least in Europe. And the point is CSGO main players are Europe.
2019-09-03 18:02
#108
 | 
Brazil trevz 
2milion is nothing for the orgs
2019-09-03 15:20
2018 the mouz ceo gave an interview. he said 2 Millions€ was the revenue of a whole year and the biggest they ever made and this also cuz of Niko sell and get ropz for free.. revenue not win Nope this is a hell of money at least for clans that work seriously and without wasting investors.
2019-09-03 18:03
By 2 million euro revenue is that the profit?
2019-09-03 18:59
He sad revenue. So not the profit
2019-09-03 19:07
oh thought so just making sure
2019-09-03 19:08
manager-magazin.de/unternehmen/artikel/m.. The interview not gonna help you alot without german. But he said mouz only invest their own money nobody from outside. wuv.de/digital/mousesports_gruender_tuey.. And there he talks about money in esports overall also c9 etc.
2019-09-03 19:13
I fogot to mention in Germany a GmbH has to the public their annual balance. northdata.de/mousesports+Ltd.,+Hamburg/H.. here is short version until 2012. But you can google their full annual balance but you have to pay 12€ for that
2019-09-03 19:26
#32
 | 
Austria Schwerpunkt 
I'm glad someone learned from NiP's mistakes. Good on him, I suppose.
2019-09-03 13:48
Great decision to come forward with this and show transparency. Also makes players and the whole org feel more safe. Exciting to know that he came from an IT/Design background and is now managing this team. Well done so far Mr.Meic
2019-09-03 13:48
#34
Aleksib | 
Finland xcel 
Really interesting interview that gave a lot of insight about what goes in the organisations. Would be cool to see same kind of interview from a larger organisations point of view
2019-09-03 13:48
wow thats cr4zy
2019-09-03 13:48
insert another "wow that's cr4zy" comment
2019-09-03 13:51
#123
 | 
Canada thelegend27 
wow thags cr FOUR zy
2019-09-03 15:51
#41
 | 
Czech Republic fykseN1g 
wholesome
2019-09-03 13:56
cr4zy bestest <3
2019-09-03 13:56
#122
 | 
Canada thelegend27 
wtf flair
2019-09-03 15:51
wtf the real legend27 wtf bro, why u have D&G u explain first then me after
2019-09-03 17:11
#149
 | 
Canada thelegend27 
cuz they won me tons of money 😎 also im not legend27
2019-09-03 17:36
wooow epic, I have because my favorite group of rappers/artists name is "drain gang(DG)" B) nice man csgolounge + underdogs once upon a time was so epic
2019-09-03 17:38
#203
hecker | 
World heck9r 
now kith
2019-09-04 02:04
he's fake, im the real The Legend27
2019-09-05 15:34
Ban the team until they paid
2019-09-03 13:58
#49
 | 
Spain G3CK0 
This is a really nice interview, its really nice that he came and explained everything with that transparency. The franchising thing sounds good to me tho
2019-09-03 13:59
#50
 | 
United States Trump2020KAG 
Offff. Big bucks. Good looking team so far. I hope they stick around as a core.
2019-09-03 14:01
Very interesting and he doesn't look shady as others.
2019-09-03 14:02
"hunter worth 100 million" - Antonio "Delusional CEO" Meic, 2019
2019-09-03 14:03
#75
 | 
Finland Juuzoz_ 
bad bait
2019-09-03 14:25
Succeeded the moment you pressed the "Post" button
2019-09-03 16:49
#121
 | 
Canada thelegend27 
hello, bait
2019-09-03 15:51
#57
s1 | 
Armenia gr1nch 
"Everything between €75,000 and €250,000. You see where we are, I think these are joke offers." LMAO. And where u are? Basically their only result is ending up in major challengers. 250k was a good price before major, after this major u can ask a little bit more ofc. Dont think there is a point for small orgs like cr4zy to keep players in "jail" and ask for unreal buyout. At the end they will make them count the days when contract expires so they can join another team for free.
2019-09-03 14:08
#61
 | 
Croatia m4niaaaaac 
Didn't even read, did you?
2019-09-03 14:13
#106
 | 
Ukraine ksay 
nice brain lmao
2019-09-03 15:17
#160
s1 | 
Armenia gr1nch 
explain
2019-09-03 17:57
#224
s1 | 
Armenia gr1nch 
2019-09-07 18:04
#158
 | 
Indonesia rareguy 
tl;dr
2019-09-03 17:54
He wouldn't do that if crazy wasn't so good right now
2019-09-03 14:09
It'll cost teams two million each for Valve to finally add the GOTV of professional matches to the Watch-Tab in CSGO. Tehehehe Great news. Hopefully this league doesn't impact the open circuit.
2019-09-03 14:16
Nice read
2019-09-03 14:18
#68
 | 
Thailand hahahoha 
too long
2019-09-03 14:19
It's an interesting read I promise (if you've not already read it yet)
2019-09-03 19:01
nice
2019-09-03 14:20
#81
 | 
United States @FyreCS 
Very respectable org
2019-09-03 14:29
wtf
2019-09-03 14:30
#83
k0nfig | 
Denmark strogie 
If you want more money change your logo and get hunters cousin in the team :)
2019-09-03 14:33
latter one would lose u massive amount doe short term so easier said than done xdddd
2019-09-03 15:12
#84
 | 
Europe xrnavkha 
Very interesting read, known this guy from when he used to host small mobile game tournaments and he has the mindset required to run a t1 org; wishing cr4zy best of luck in next major
2019-09-03 14:33
#85
 | 
Nigeria Asbhdhsbs 
Valve supported league would be PogU
2019-09-03 14:37
Gratz for them !
2019-09-03 14:39
#88
 | 
Austria doMK0 
Thanks for the interview and the honesty, very interesting insights.
2019-09-03 14:40
2 mil buy in? Surely that's too much?
2019-09-03 14:40
I heard CoDs buy in for a franchise league is 25million
2019-09-03 19:02
Jesus fucking christ, are teams even worth that much?
2019-09-06 18:15
Wow that's a lot of new info on how a csgo org works. Thanks :)
2019-09-03 14:46
Great interview.
2019-09-03 14:47
Major tournaments are valve sponsored, aren't they?
2019-09-03 14:47
Yeah they are, I think he means a valve sponsored franchise league.
2019-09-03 19:02
Imo it is funny to come forward with this only after all the recent NiP drama...
2019-09-03 14:49
Respectable decision though.
2019-09-03 19:03
#99
s1mple | 
Europe Sam2k 
unexpected
2019-09-03 15:01
#100
 | 
Kazakhstan ezBORAT 
thanks for info, i'm go to development my own org bruuuuuuuuuh
2019-09-03 15:02
interesting PR move. I guess now better than later.
2019-09-03 15:17
Good, now apologize to the community for that garbage rebrand
2019-09-03 15:20
"If you are looking at it from a cash flow perspective it is very difficult, CS is a game where players are priority number one, the majority of the prize pools goes to players, the majority of the sticker money goes to players, so organizations are basically dependant on content deals and sponsorship money." That's unsustainable. If players receive a salary every month (+house/flights/everything) they should not get +50% of prize pools. Let's imagin u work at a company and u receive 2,000e/month + 60-70% benefits ur company have earned with your job. Does it look a joke? Well, this is happening here.
2019-09-03 15:33
yep players should decide to get a good salary and less prizemoney or low salary and high prizemoney. I mean for teams with a real star like S1mple or Niko it is harder cuz this players want and can demand both.
2019-09-03 17:54
#161
 | 
Indonesia rareguy 
Yeah dude like wtf $500.000 annually is damn insane if the org didn't have income from the tourneys.
2019-09-03 17:58
Can someone explain how this league would work? first time hearing about it so I have no idea what it is.
2019-09-03 15:34
Are all orgs scumbags?
2019-09-03 15:48
#120
 | 
Canada thelegend27 
csgolounge traders tryna buy hunter for cheap smh also #GOSTUPID congratulations on getting more sposnerz
2019-09-03 15:50
> nobody is talking about Europe, where the strongest teams are. LUL this isnt league of legions
2019-09-03 15:53
Expected from non profitable dead game
2019-09-03 15:56
kind of insane News here
2019-09-03 16:03
#127
 | 
France PopeyeLul 
tl;dr
2019-09-03 16:07
#131
 | 
Europe letqpena 
I respect CR4ZY for publicly admitting and apologizing for outstanding debts. Meanwhile in Sweden, though...
2019-09-03 16:27
It's really cool to have so much insight into the CS bussiness and CR4ZY seems to be going into the right direction, I'm still not fan of the name tho. ESL, pls fuck off with franchised leagues. That's not for CS.
2019-09-03 16:28
#133
 | 
Austria gex0r 
this shows a big structural problem in esports/cs atm imo orgs are acting like startups, they don't have viable business models and need investments all the time to be able to pay operating costs and non-proportional player salaries in context of what is likely to earn with a top20 csgo team i think there is a big bubble building in esports, because right now t it's hip to invest in it, but in 2-3 years we'll see a lot of bankrupt orgs btw if an org pays salaries/travelling, i don't see why they shouldn't take 30% price money. but especially the major is really a joke in this regard, It's really hard to get there nowadays and a lot of teams don't even earn their travel costs back... valve could easily raise money from the community with viewerpasses etc....
2019-09-03 16:38
viewerpass 25% (someone wrote 50% I'm not sure) goes to the teams. At TI it goes in the prizemoney that is why people know what the teams/clans get. But the numbers in csgo are equal to that. Stickermoney + viewerpass goes 100k and more up for a team or for only 1 player.
2019-09-03 17:50
#204
 | 
Austria gex0r 
I was talking about the orgs, not the players but btw a lot of insiders and also players (elige, chrisj, thorin, etc.) said that stickermoney 1) is going down 2) is no way a match to TI
2019-09-04 08:47
stickermoney is going down? then the community don't spend so much money. Valve can't change that. TI was this year so much cuz it was in China.
2019-09-04 10:00
so i think counter-strike is no easy business. i'm happy to they paid
2019-09-03 16:41
i swear every esport organisation from balkan are filled with scammers
2019-09-03 16:47
finally an honest CEO!
2019-09-03 17:11
#146
 | 
Czech Republic Limacool 
Thank you for this interview. I have been waiting for and honest interview like this for a long time. It shows us what is behind a esport organisation and how the market with the players work. Thanks to this CEO, this is the first time I am a fan of an organisation, not a team and I wish CR4ZY good luck in the future!
2019-09-03 17:27
There is a thin line between being transparent and oversharing... Anyway, good read, insightful stuff.
2019-09-03 17:33
I really don't see the point of a franchised league, esports doesn't need that. At least the buy in sounds fairly reasonable. But still, we don't need location based teams or franchises, cs is in a great spot.
2019-09-03 17:37
eSports investors without any marketing perspective invest in a black hole and this guy admits it. He wants a franchise system and thinks the USA idea is the best?? LUL in Europe without close leagues and stupid franchise sport develop very well. Nobody wants to see a team cuz it pays money people wanna see teams with passion and work. Nothing you need in a franchise league. As Leicester City became England Championship... such things don't happen in a franchise league. or Kaiserslautern 1997. from second league straight to the Champion of the Bundesliga. This is the reason to watch this game. Imagen Gambit, Ence, as Major flukes wouldn't happen in such a world. I can say CEO go and quit CSGO if you wanna have a franchise LoL is the better option for you.
2019-09-03 17:47
smart of him to get in front of any possible PR embarrassment while his roster is hot and his brand has goodwill
2019-09-03 17:51
Another scam
2019-09-03 17:58
#167
TACO | 
Portugal R0cketOG 
This is like a big advertising for "buy my team please"
2019-09-03 18:09
after nip drama every team shit in pants
2019-09-03 18:10
#170
 | 
Reunion rolezK1 
Finally ceo who we can trust
2019-09-03 18:20
I wonder how much money Windigo owns to their players right now. It is a lot.
2019-09-03 18:49
Whats happened with windigo?
2019-09-03 19:06
#196
 | 
United Kingdom VOSSKI 
because of their wesg win, which got them 500k, i doubt the org gave the players much of it
2019-09-03 22:16
#185
 | 
United States jay_320 
So a 2 mill buy in. I hope you like Cloud 9, Liquid, MIBR, Astralis, Fnatic, Na'vi, NRG, Vitality, G2, North, Faze, Mousesports , Complexity, 100T and maybe Ence if they want to go all in anyways.
2019-09-03 19:29
it'd be insane if navi bought crazy's roster and replaced letn1 and espi with simple and electronic.
2019-09-03 20:52
#190
Edward | 
Ukraine rozhok 
Great interview, this guy definitely has some balls if he's going to bet a ton of money on the very risky deal. Hope they guys succeed after the major, they definitely deserve that.
2019-09-03 20:54
Franchised leagues... This will destroy the game for new players/teams. This shit has to stop, this is not good for the growth of the scene.
2019-09-03 22:01
Never mind. Read the whole interview now
2019-09-04 01:30
#202
 | 
Serbia GODKipato 
This is great
2019-09-04 02:04
#206
 | 
Australia Ataynu5 
My reflection on this is that Mr Meic has been very fortunate that the players were not difficult. Importantly for CR4ZY I think the integrity is in tact as this can fairly be attributed to inexperience leading to honest mistakes. Some lessons in here for any aspiring founders: it may appear to be more important to manage an investor’s expectations (even a disgruntled one) prior to an employee’s compensation, however it isn’t if you want to build a successful people-based operation. Pay your people in full first, then get creative if you must with your other creditors or investors if that’s the situation you’re in. And you want to help your investor(s) understand the nature of your business as well as you do. I also agree with many folks here that the franchised league concept(s) is dubious. My background isn’t eSports but in my humble opinion teams writ large are scratching the surface re revenue streams. Lastly, if I was Mr Meic I would get the other Kovac on my team, as an equal with the others (appetite dependent), and do some equity options with the players and aim long-term. Anyway nice interview with reasonable candour.
2019-09-04 11:26
Fuck just sell drugs on the side ez fix. Got debt problems? 1. Download Tor 2. Go on Grey market or Nightmare 3. Buy 1000 2MG Xanax bars for $1000 4. Sell em 15 a pop to high school and university students 5. Spend the extra money on hookers and blow men))))))
2019-09-04 18:12
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