Thorin on FLASHPOINT negotiations: "There was a lot of fuckery behind the scenes; Astralis was the worst offender"

Duncan "⁠Thorin⁠" Shields discusses his criticism of ESL, the struggle to get the best teams in FLASHPOINT, and the possibility of the company running its own Major in the future.

It’s been over an hour since the FLASHPOINT press conference came to an end, and Thorin finally walks into the meeting room in the basement floor of The Loading Bay, an industrial-themed venue located in Shoreditch, East London, where I've been waiting for him. One by one, he has been patiently sitting down with every media outlet that attended the event, answering questions about the new league and discussing the latest details about the project and his role in it.

Each interview takes 20, 30 minutes, sometimes more. There is a lot to go over when it comes to FLASHPOINT, which until an hour earlier didn’t have an official name, and Thorin, ever so talkative, is not one who usually feels the need to measure his words carefully. "I don't necessarily have all the information, so I will always describe what I say publicly as semi-official," he starts off by saying. "I obviously do have a job there, so you can’t say I’m not affiliated, but that doesn't mean I always know what I'm talking about, as you might see from some of my takes on Twitter every now and then."

Thorin is the Creative Director of FLASHPOINT. Photograph: Simeone Sergio Spagnoli/FACEIT

He is alluding to his recent apologies to ESL and to chrisJ and the CSPPA in two of the latest episodes of the ongoing tug-of-war between the two leagues that has dominated headlines since the start of the year. After announcing that he was joining FLASHPOINT (at the time still known as 'B Site') as Creative Director, Thorin quickly became, willingly or otherwise, the face of the project. He has since openly and frequently criticized ESL, and even vowed to never work again with the company until the people who were responsible for the nightmarish handling of Pro League Season 11 "are named and fired or leave the company."

"Even when I was just a journalist or just the on-air talent of a league, I've always done this, I've always given my perspective, putting it out there to the world," he tells HLTV.org when asked why he has been doing PR these days and fighting battles on social media. "Part of that is that I like battling people on what they think or why they're saying that or whether their points are correct.

"We have this saying in English, 'In for a penny, in for a pound'. I’m all in on this. What I do is, the things I know or the things I’m allowed to release to the public, I’ll tell them but I’ll do it in my own way. It’s kind of semi-official, and they certainly don’t always like the way it’s packaged, but they bought into my brand as well, so that’s part of why I’m doing it."

FLASHPOINT spared no effort to assemble a star-studded on-air talent crew, headlined by Thorin, Auguste "⁠Semmler⁠" Massonnat and Christopher "MonteCristo" Mykles, and secured the services of FACEIT as tournament operator as it looks to answer the million-dollar question of how to make money off of Counter-Strike. The league is a fresh take on things, with a clear focus on delivering a high-quality entertainment product that connects fans with their favorite players, but not everyone seems to be buying into their vision: the $2 million entry fee is a stumbling block to some, and ESL Pro League also seems to have the upper hand by offering Pro Tour ranking points that will help to determine invites to some of the biggest LAN events in the circuit, including ESL One Cologne, the most prestigious tournament outside of the Majors.

There's been plenty of back-and-forth behind the scenes in the last few weeks as organisations size up their options before making a decision that could have a significant financial and sporting impact. Details about which teams will be involved in the two leagues are still sketchy, though it seems that ESL will have the edge from a competitive perspective: FLASHPOINT is yet to tie down a top-10 side and was handed a heavy blow when Astralis announced their intention to remain in EPL after initially threatening to jump ship.

"First of all, Astralis was the worst offender," he says as I bring up his January 28 tweet criticizing the way some of the teams had behaved. "I actually don't believe they were actually genuine or authentic about wanting to be in this particular league, I think they tried to get all the info they could and that, cleverly, for their own interest, they played both of the leagues against each other to try to get the best offer they could.

"In the short term, if you don't have any professional ethics, it was the best thing for Astralis, and just like they did last year with BLAST Pro Series, they understood that, if you're the No.1 team, you kind of set the tone for all the other teams, the teams that want to be you and kind of just follow. You're the leader, and they're going to go where you go or they'll kind of copy whatever you're doing because they'll think that’s what’s making you No.1.

"There was a lot of fuckery behind the scenes. I was amazed at how many times, the players of a top, top team would tell me, 'I would like to be involved in this league. It's just that my owner has to make the decision. If he decides to be in the league, we'll see you there'. And then, the people involved in B Site would be talking to the owners, and they'd go, 'Love the league, love the concept, sounds brilliant, but the thing is... I'll let my players decide'. People were being pushed and pulled from the same sides.

"Some of the other teams were a little bit more complicated, some of them actually, believe it or not, big brands, aren't necessarily in the position where they can do the buy-in and pay the fines. We might think of some of them as legendary teams who have done amazing things in esports, but they're in tough spots, they've taken the VC money, they've given up the equity, some of them don't have a whole lot of liquidity. Forget the $2 million buy-in, some of them maybe don't want to have to pay $100,000 [in monthly fines if a team is outside the top 20 in a CSPPA-approved ranking] when their team sucks or if they lose their players have to completely re-up."

Thorin believes that negotiations between teams and the two tournament organisers will "probably will go down to the 11th hour", which is the reason why neither ESL nor FLASHPOINT has announced a full list of participants. "People are trying to get the best deal for themselves or seeing if something else crazy happens last minute," he explains. "It's like when you're going to the school disco: everyone wants to have an awesome time and dance, but everyone is scared to be the first on the dance floor."

Over in London and in Los Angeles - where representatives of some of the six teams so far confirmed in FLASHPOINT remotely participated at the press conference through a video call -, confidence is still high despite some setbacks. A common sentiment is that the league will eventually win over everyone and that before long there will be an influx of players from EPL, lured by the riches of the organisations that have bought into FLASHPOINT and by how revolutionary the broadcasting product aims to be.

Thorin has no doubt that FLASHPOINT’s franchise partners will eventually follow Complexity’s example and open their chequebook to make offers that top players simply cannot refuse, even if only to avoid paying the $100,000 monthly fines.

"I'd rather just take the top 10 teams in the world and bring them all to our league, that would be my choice," Thorin admits. "If we don't get many of those top 10 teams, yeah, I'll be disappointed on that front. Luckily, certain people behind the scenes who are on the business side have done some very clever things in terms of the fines and the buying aspect.

"If Astralis isn't in the league, that's fine. Next year, if someone from our league with a lot of money is saying: 'I'll pay a million buyout and pay him a 2 million salary', eventually some of Astralis' players are going to leave. I don't care what the team name in the league is, I care which players are in the league. If Gen.G end up having the best players in the world, cool, it won't matter to me that fnatic, the brand, will be in EPL. Who will be in EPL at that point in time?

"The product is built so that it can withstand a fairly mediocre level of talent. Luckily, and unless I'm very mistaken about the setup of the industry right now, if there's one thing I can trust players to do is constantly looking at the number on the contracts. If I were a player, I would say: ‘How much is blameF making? Wasn't he the 60th, 70th best player a month ago and now he's making more than me, and I'm in the third-best team in the world? This sucks. How do I get into a Complexity or a Gen.G?'

"These are the teams who can get all the money. Those owners are amazing at selling sponsorships, especially the North American organisations because of the market they have access to. I think it's an exciting prospect, because if you're like me and you want to see the best teams, what do we care really about how much those players cost and how much they're paying for them? Just like in FaZe, I want to see coldzera play with NiKo and see what happens there. I'll worry about how much coldzera cost later on."

Franchising has changed the face of esports in the last three years. The models introduced by Activision Blizzard and Riot Games have brought many investors and non-endemic partners, but the threat of esports being a bubble on the brink of bursting is very real and should worry us all. If a project like the Overwatch League or the Call of Duty League, with buy-ins in the tens of millions of dollars, collapses, it will have a domino effect throughout the entire industry in ways never seen before, not even in the late 2000s after the fall of the Championship Gaming Series (CGS).

None of FLASHPOINT’s partners is stranger to franchising. MIBR’s parent company, the Immortals Gaming Club, and c0ntact are among those who have signed mega franchising deals that have been criticised by many in the last few years, including Thorin. Isn’t it ironic then that he finds himself at the dinner table with the very same people who have pushed for deals that could threaten the future of the industry?

"First of all, it's great for me," he says. "Luckily, they don't make me become a corporate drone. I'd even make fun of them, they get really quiet when I mention the Overwatch League and they don’t seem to want to talk about certain leagues that are in the space, almost like they regret their involvement there, something called the sunk cost fallacy. I literally get to roast some of them, and it's pretty fun. It's almost like a punishment they deserve.

"This is the reason I believe this league exists, they've tried those approaches and they've tried pumping loads of money into the game dev, who doesn't make them any money and at the moment is sort of bleeding them dry or just keeping them strung along year after year with the promise of a little bit more revenue. I'd say those people are incredibly open to doing something different, and the key thing is that they know that didn't work. There's a Christian saying, 'Who knows better about the sin than the sinner?'. Those people have messed up already, they've bought into all the wrong leagues. Now they have a way more reasonable buy-in and with certain incentives that don't exist in those other leagues.

"I don't know why everyone is crying about the fines and those owners if they have bad teams and are losing money. I'm glad they're going to lose money, that will maybe make them think twice about what it means to be in esports. The thing that sucks the most is when an ENCE or a MAD Lions — when they were still in Tricked —, these teams already had the skills to qualify for a massive tournament, but if you have a franchise model it wouldn't be possible. In League of Legends and in Overwatch you could have a team that is already good enough to be in the main league but they're not a franchise so all they can do is win the bottom league and there's no promotion. I like the idea that, in theory, anyone can get involved and you offset the negatives in my opinion of the franchise system, which is that it's a closed environment.

"Anyone who has watched Counter-Strike knows that the brilliant thing about the game is that tomorrow's superstars are playing today in the bottom teams and we all want to see them come up. We don't want to have to wait for this general manager to get his act together. acoR is a brilliant player: if he had to just sit in a lower league, the Norths of this world could just set the tone forever, couldn't they?"

The sustainability of Counter-Strike as an esport became a hot topic in the community in September, when a report from Dexerto revealed that ESL was planning to introduce exclusivity rules in the Pro League in 2020 as part of the ESL Pro Tour. That prompted a response from Valve prohibiting tournament organisers from restricting teams from attending events hosted by a rival company. According to the game developer, such an approach could disrupt the ecosystem, but the fact is that, back in 2015, ESL had already attempted to shut out other tournament organisers and create an exclusive circuit with some of the biggest organisations in the world.

With ESL and FLASHPOINT continuously upping the ante in an effort to entice teams and have the best possible talent, it seems clear that players are the ultimate beneficiaries of the ongoing war between the two tournament organisers, reaping the rewards that would never be there if a monopoly were to be established.

"I think the CSPPA has had some quite interesting concessions from the ESLs of the world in terms of like the input into things that normally you would never let an employee have over his employer," Thorin says. "And if there is no competition I don't think you would get those.

"One of the main criticisms I have of the CSPPA is they seem to think it's outrageous that any of us would think they would ever boycott a league. But as far as I know, the only power any player union or association has is to withhold their labor, the threat of doing that gets you what you want. I think, in a way, we've almost helped them get a little bit better deals before they ever had to actually show that they can brandish that gun and fire it.

"I think right now, it's helping out some of the teams in the short term, and that is one reason why I don't begrudge a team that decides for whatever reason to go to EPL."

As much as he has criticized ESL, not only recently but over the years, Thorin insists he has no interest in seeing the oldest tournament organiser in the business going down. "I hope ESL is around in a few years and they find the model that gets them the monetization," he says. "It means we will still have brilliant events like ESL One Cologne and we will still have a TO that, the moment when you lose money running a Major can still afford hosting a massive Major that is worthy of the game we have.

"We don’t have Valve paying everything for a TI [The International], we need the big TOs if we want these awesome tournaments. I hope everyone eventually, through competition, betters themselves and we're not all just killing each other in some post-apocalyptic scenario."

Before we part and Thorin goes on his way to another interview, there is still time for one more question: Is it possible that we will have a FLASHPOINT Major somewhere down the road, potentially with FACEIT as a partner?

"I'm not sure about that," he says. "If we did it, I would like it to be like ELEAGUE's, where they took what they learned from the ELEAGUE seasons and did a Major separately. If it gets big enough and we do a good enough job with production, that would be cool. I will say right now that, economically, Majors aren't a great deal. A lot of people don't know this, but we almost did a bad thing by suggesting StarLadder should get a Major. They don't have a circuit this year, and where are all their tournaments? They lost money doing a massive Major, it was advertising for nothing, there was nothing in there.

"I don't even know if doing Majors, the best tournaments, is a very good money-maker. I'll just say: If it's viable economically, I'd love to run one of those and be a part of it and bring some of my ideas to what a Major could be.

"In terms of if we would actually host one: again, the one thing that is interesting is: FACEIT only has this minority ownership in FLASHPOINT [0.5 per cent], and even the max it can go up to is 5.5 per cent. If things for whatever reason don't go the way they should, maybe it's a different TO or league operator in the future. I don't necessarily know if it would be even with FACEIT, but I will say: it would be better than the FACEIT Major London."

United States Auguste 'Semmler' Massonnat
Auguste 'Semmler' Massonnat
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United Kingdom Duncan 'Thorin' Shields
Duncan 'Thorin' Shields
Age:
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Team:
No team
Rating 1.0:
0.00
Maps played:
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#1
 | 
Malaysia Suno[t]
Thooring blasting CS teams since 01' lol
2020-02-17 12:01
57 replies
kkkk, imagine trying to stay relevant just by being offensive to compensate for your lack of talent, nt
2020-02-17 12:44
54 replies
imagine still being heavily relevant even through guys like you
2020-02-17 13:08
43 replies
Look at the attention whoring he has to do though, using the #1 teams name to make obvious remarks in a clickbait enterview, pathetic
2020-02-17 13:20
29 replies
#134
 | 
Lithuania aikaz45
+1
2020-02-17 14:30
Pls, don't cry.
2020-02-17 16:07
Ahall he take a tier 5 team as example?
2020-02-17 16:10
#222
 | 
Indonesia rareguy
The one that picked the title is MIRAA you knobhead, dare to tell him that he's attention whoring?
2020-02-17 16:46
2 replies
Bruh hes the one that said it
2020-02-20 20:25
1 reply
#432
 | 
Indonesia rareguy
On a second thought, you maybe right.
2020-02-21 23:31
#286
 | 
Brazil cinza
this is so TRUE this guy is a horrible person and made a racist comment about brazilians! NEVER FORGET!
2020-02-17 20:45
13 replies
He Said that brazils are niggs?
2020-02-18 08:07
2 replies
they are ugly gipsies - most of them
2020-02-21 12:15
facts =/= racist, go cry somewhere else favela rat
2020-02-19 08:55
9 replies
#398
 | 
Brazil cinza
omegaLUL u r DUMB af, but thats ok!
2020-02-20 13:57
8 replies
Mad
2020-02-20 17:07
7 replies
#430
 | 
Brazil cinza
u dumb lol
2020-02-21 21:03
6 replies
Cry is free favela
2020-02-21 22:03
5 replies
#435
 | 
Brazil cinza
lol hi dumb dude
2020-02-22 17:20
4 replies
favela still mad
2020-02-22 20:00
3 replies
#447
 | 
Brazil cinza
u still dumb LUL
2020-02-24 16:25
2 replies
U still mad LUL and favela LUL and 3rd world LUL
2020-02-24 20:10
1 reply
#450
 | 
Brazil cinza
lololol YO-dumb!
2020-02-27 19:59
plus 1 I think Thorin shouldn't be allowed in the cs scene - commentating and even playing, because i believe he would rage too much in a mm game. Personal opinion tho.
2020-02-18 09:29
#338
 | 
Brazil KsRmiTch
+1
2020-02-18 10:03
Agreed, but it now also crystal clear that he only thinks of himself and his org in everything he says and does. If Flashpoint ever should have a chance in hell, then he should start by setting the viewers first and the players+their orgs second. His whole plan, it to break up teams because their orgs decide to prioritise other leagues or can't pay the 2 mill buy-in. Bad Freaking Plan.
2020-02-19 07:53
1 reply
Yeah, sad tbh, orgs are too big now, both eyes on the cash and none on the viewers
2020-02-20 20:23
#397
 | 
China L0n35
you realise he didn't make this title right?
2020-02-20 12:21
3 replies
He litterally said those exact words
2020-02-20 20:22
2 replies
#437
 | 
China L0n35
English must be your second language. There is a difference between saying something and WRITING A FUCKING TITLE
2020-02-23 07:50
1 reply
Third as a matter of fact, but using a brain must be a second function to you to not get my point
2020-02-23 14:10
Its hltv who posted this interview not thorin but ok lul, i guess hltv is leeching then as well
2020-02-20 20:21
Sorry, he escaped from my basement. I found him again, I will lock him up better this time.
2020-02-17 16:07
12 replies
flag checkouts. At least it's hard to buy toxic gas nowadays
2020-02-17 16:35
10 replies
Go back to basement
2020-02-17 16:39
8 replies
The Americans free me after 1945. I won't return anymore
2020-02-17 16:41
7 replies
You nub
2020-02-17 16:41
2 replies
You so young and already a bad person :'(
2020-02-17 16:45
1 reply
U2
2020-02-17 16:49
#365
 | 
France NekzNNJA
German and Brazilian Ahah 7-1 Kekw
2020-02-18 19:51
3 replies
I think zidane make me feels more bad than those 7-1 ma friend. What a legend.
2020-02-18 19:59
2 replies
#372
 | 
France NekzNNJA
Brazil got many legends R9 R10
2020-02-18 22:53
1 reply
Yeah, I know the last title was insane. It will never happen anymore
2020-02-19 03:46
#340
 | 
Germany Astralex
What is your problem now? Maybe get older and come back here when you are old enough to talk to people politely
2020-02-18 11:45
Ty my dude try sedating him next time so he talks less shit
2020-02-19 16:11
#73
 | 
Finland N1ggers
Don’t cry
2020-02-17 13:08
15 year olds... Why do you kids always make such stupid comments?
2020-02-17 13:13
8 replies
2020-02-17 13:25
5 replies
Don't cry, Thorin is just telling the truth
2020-02-17 16:08
4 replies
you should donate some money to him and make a reddit post about how great he is
2020-02-17 16:28
2 replies
Dude, don't tell me I'm wrong
2020-02-17 16:35
1 reply
#341
 | 
Germany Astralex
Why not? If you are?
2020-02-18 11:50
He probably is telling the truth, but it still only makes him come out as a sad man, that can not make the necessary deals to have a relevant league. So now his plan is to make individual players break out of their top 10 teams to play in his league, so they can make more money. Damn, that's not a good long term plan... And trying to threaten to release info about how teams/orgs have behaved, only means that he is burning down all bridges, so no one will ever deal with him again. How bad can you be at your job man...
2020-02-19 08:10
You're a thorin fan and still calling other people stupid WOW
2020-02-17 13:33
1 reply
+1
2020-02-18 08:08
he made me google for the meaning of fuckery, i would never ever guess that it means bullshit. Sadly, it is the only thing I found interesting about this long ass text.
2020-02-17 20:30
#283
 | 
Germany Bier
Thorin is telling a lot of crap when the spotlight is on him
2020-02-17 20:35
ASTRALISLUL
2020-02-17 12:00
1 reply
#40
 | 
Norway FriggeK
KEKW
2020-02-17 12:35
LMAO
2020-02-17 12:00
4 replies
the biggest problem i have, and makes flashpoint so bad to me is in fact thorin. he is trashtalking ESL so much, you can see he is scared AF about flashpoint being a total trashleague (and im more and more confident it will fail). ESL isnt pointing finger on flashpoint for their HOOOOOOOOORRIBLE qualifier etc. they just do their thing and history shows ESL got the trust of all teams and thats why only ass teams will be participating in flashpoint. i think thorin is set to be a main factor flashpoint will get a lot of negative comments on their product. he is so ignorant, a liar an absolut garbage human being. i from time to time enjoy his trashtalk but in this particular case (ESL vs. BLAST vs. FLASHPOINT) its rly not asked for.
2020-02-18 01:31
3 replies
+1000 well spoken
2020-02-18 01:32
2 replies
also, teams that joined flashpoint arent people of CS... its businessmen that came in from other business investing in esport and are trying to milk esports for money. who the fuck is contact gaming? who the fuck is gen.g? who the fuck are all these people behind the orgs that signed with flashpoint? exactly, rich people investing in orgs, telling them to get money into their pockets and fuck the game and what it stands for, just get money out of it... if it ruins the passion, the things the community and the history stands for, so be it... MONEY is what they want... no matter what. ESL is approaching things a little different i feel.. they want the league to be the best league, money is a thing for sure but first and foremost the competition is what they look for, the storylines and rivalry between 2 teams playing each other... who gives a fuck if cloud9 beats c0ntact gaming... have you seen the teams that qualified for the flashpoint global shit? what the hell are those teams? they usualy play for 200 viewer on some weird ass brazilian/russian or wherever they come from stream... flashpoint is set to fail in my opinion
2020-02-18 01:39
1 reply
#319
 | 
North America SeaTurt13
For contact, it feels like they just bought crazy for the major slot, not much else because the roster will definitely change after the major. The one good thing about gen.g is the fact that they got bntet out of the shithole that is tyloo. I agree that the teams that qualified look weak and I highly doubt flashpoint will give us good storylines or make profit
2020-02-18 03:32
Trashrin Go Astralis
2020-02-17 12:01
5 replies
Finally this Malding brit gets shut in his place
2020-02-17 12:25
3 replies
By some random HLTV user? Yeah, I bet he'll be thinking about this till the end of his days.
2020-02-17 21:30
2 replies
#306
 | 
Korea day|dream
+1
2020-02-17 23:20
+1
2020-02-18 01:35
Yes no one cares about that twat
2020-02-17 13:34
who cares
2020-02-17 12:02
lmao
2020-02-17 12:02
Gained all respect for Astralis
2020-02-17 12:02
6 replies
NA reasoning
2020-02-17 12:17
3 replies
FR reasoning
2020-02-17 12:25
Astralis did nothing wrong here u baguette
2020-02-17 13:40
Yo Baguette, what is NA reasoning?
2020-02-18 07:37
Even the organization management are playing at 300iq
2020-02-17 12:42
1 reply
yep. That's why I 19x'ed my respect for Astralis
2020-02-17 12:43
#10
 | 
Latvia tibr0
lmao nice title xddd
2020-02-17 12:03
#12
 | 
Romania Obuz8
Thoorin best
2020-02-17 12:10
ofc Astralis are dbags. They have Nikolaj Nyholm as their CEO also known as asshole CEO 101.
2020-02-17 12:13
80 replies
#103
 | 
Denmark Zaerdna
Ahhh yes, do you know them personally?
2020-02-17 13:52
47 replies
Ofc not but that does not mean i can not have an opinion about it, surely you are not stupid enough to actually believe this. Nikolaj have acted like a rich idiot numerous times, the whole blast fiasco last year if you remember?
2020-02-17 14:24
46 replies
#125
 | 
Denmark Zaerdna
The blast fiasco was Astralis opting to have a more relaxed schedule and got grilled for it for no reason.
2020-02-17 14:27
19 replies
Wow you really are brainwashed. I have no more things to say to you, have a good day sir.
2020-02-17 14:28
17 replies
#133
 | 
Denmark Zaerdna
Sure, buddy. No argument so you opt out KEKW
2020-02-17 14:29
15 replies
I have plenty of arguments, I just know you will listen to litterly not a single one. Most likely because you are a brainwashed nationalistic Dane. Now i love Denmark as a country but you really need to tone it down on the nationalism, imo.
2020-02-17 14:31
14 replies
#161
 | 
Denmark Zaerdna
Not really. Don't really know what you're aiming at here tbh, but it seems like your only option is that Astralis is in the wrong every time even without proof. You gotta tone down your bias a little bit.
2020-02-17 15:35
13 replies
I gotta tone down my bias? Wow we got a projecting Peter over here guys.
2020-02-17 15:37
12 replies
#167
 | 
Denmark Zaerdna
Literally the worst comeback I've heard in years yet you refrain from answering with an argument, seems like the case is closed.
2020-02-17 15:38
11 replies
I have litterly already answered your questions, you are just not smart enough to comprehent it, so yeah i agree case is indeed closed.
2020-02-17 15:39
10 replies
#171
 | 
Denmark Zaerdna
No you really didn't, you just assumed that I was siding with Astralis because of my nationality which is far from being a solid basis lmao. Who's the dumb one?
2020-02-17 15:40
9 replies
Based on our current conversation i would say my assumption was right on point.
2020-02-17 15:42
8 replies
My pp 9 inch
2020-02-18 23:50
1 reply
Gz dude.
2020-02-19 00:02
Brainwashed as an argument KEKW
2020-02-19 00:09
use your brain bro, do you think astralis will sacrifice their spot at ESL to play in some shitty t2 league with none of the other top tier teams???
2020-02-20 10:27
4 replies
Use your brain bro, the reason there is no other top tier team is because people followed Astralis lead.
2020-02-20 11:04
3 replies
thats how it should be.
2020-02-20 12:14
2 replies
What is tried explaining was that the main reason it may be a tier 2 league is because of Astralis choice. You are however to much of a dense fanboy to realize what i meant.
2020-02-20 12:17
1 reply
nope, it would be the same with any other top 1 team. everyone wants to beat them, so of course they would naturally join the same league :P
2020-02-20 14:28
Should've stuck to this buddy. There's no convincing some people
2020-02-22 11:00
No, there was a reason. They skipped out on some of the biggest tournaments in order to participate at competitively awful events, done by an organizer trying to push exclusivity in the scene. Blast events hurt the scene massively in the last year and Astralis was a big reason why. I think it's possible to be a fan of them and still acknowledge this.
2020-02-17 19:13
#129
 | 
Denmark Zaerdna
Every time Astralis does something people go like "Astralis bad waaaaaah". RFRSH did the shady stuff, not Astralis lol.
2020-02-17 14:28
25 replies
You do realize that it is litterly the same guy that was running RFRSH that is now running Astralis right? Surely you would not make such a ignorant comment, if that was the case, right?
2020-02-17 14:59
24 replies
#165
 | 
Denmark Zaerdna
But does that reflect on the players? No, not in the slightest. Even if it's the same guy you're argument is flawed. This post is literally Thorin crying about Astralis picking the best league for their team lmao.
2020-02-17 15:37
23 replies
Ive never said anything about the players, when i said Astralis i meant the org. You can not just assume i mean something that i absolutely do not stand for, learn to read my guy and do not assume so much.
2020-02-17 15:38
22 replies
#170
 | 
Denmark Zaerdna
Astralis are dbags. The org was literally back then and now controlled by the players, so that's why I assumed you meant the players, not my fault you don't know anything about the org then :/.
2020-02-17 15:39
21 replies
The org is not and has never been player controlled, they own a small % of their stock but they have far from a majority. Please try to actually learn a bit about what you are trying to argue for or against, as it makes you look less like a fool.
2020-02-17 15:41
20 replies
#173
 | 
Denmark Zaerdna
They control the way they wish to pursue fucking idiot lmao, go and read then. Not that hard tbh.
2020-02-17 15:42
19 replies
Gosh you are not the brighest lightbulb in the box are you? So damn ignorant, reported btw.
2020-02-17 15:42
18 replies
#176
 | 
Denmark Zaerdna
Gosh you are not the brighest lightbulb in the box are you? So damn ignorant, reported btw.
2020-02-17 15:43
1 reply
No more comebacks so you just decide to repeat what i said? You really are just proving my point, you realize that right?
2020-02-17 15:44
#177
 | 
Denmark Zaerdna
What an argument lmao, cya mate. Find some objectivity next time
2020-02-17 15:44
15 replies
Please think before you write/speak, it will make the world a smarter place. Also research stuff before you make decide on an opinion, k thx bye.
2020-02-17 15:45
13 replies
#181
 | 
Denmark Zaerdna
You're really just proving my point by leaving the conversation, claiming you've done research when you really haven't and you keep replying even do you think you're right which just shows your doubt lmao. The Astralis players themselves said they control which league they play in, they decide what direction they go, not anyone else. You can easily go back and find evidence that they themselves control their own org, so what you're saying is literally false.
2020-02-17 15:48
10 replies
No the only thing i am proving is the notion that it is impossible to argue with idiots because they can not comprehent what the other person is saying. Arguing with you is litterly pointless for me, thats all bye.
2020-02-17 15:49
9 replies
#184
 | 
Denmark Zaerdna
You're literally doing the same thing as me yet you call me the idiot and say that I'm wrong without any solid basis? KEKW
2020-02-17 15:50
6 replies
I have already made my arguments but instead of responding you started by calling me an idiot without arguments. You realize that is why we started having a problem right? Like i can not believe a person being this darn dense. This conversation is over since it gives me a headache and a loss of hope. Feel free to type whatever but i will not respond and if i know you right you are ignorant enough to think "he does not want to respond so i won the argument hurr durr".
2020-02-17 15:52
5 replies
#188
 | 
Denmark Zaerdna
No, I know you're gonna reply because you're fighting to keep this mask of "I'm smort, fuck Astralis, I know everything about them and therefore I can grill them without actually looking into the damn thing" I can't even remember why this argument started because I enjoyed your fuckery so much lmao. You keep your opinion mate. Just funny to see that no matter what Astralis does, there will always be people like you that are ready with the pitchforks and you really don't take a second look before deciding "Muuuh Astralis bad" but keep replying with your "I'm smort" comments, It's hilarious.
2020-02-17 15:57
2 replies
#189
 | 
Denmark Zaerdna
I can feel the furious comment coming my way )))))
2020-02-17 15:58
You are right about one thing and that is me replying. However the only reason i will reply is because you have entirely missunderstood the entire basis of my argument, my beef is with Nikolaj Nyholm the CEO of Astralis not with the rest of the staff nor the players. There hopefully this will be my last response, have a good day dude, i enjoyed this aswell untill you started calling me names.
2020-02-17 16:01
#191
 | 
Denmark Zaerdna
And I'd say that there is no winner at all, you just proved my point. Astralis haters are so typical. They hate on Astralis without any solid proof because of their success and then the preceed to get on their high horse and talk down to Astralis fans like they are any better themselves. You proved me right tbh.
2020-02-17 16:03
1 reply
No i litterly just said that i do not hate Astralis at all. Gosh you proved my point of you being dense and useless to argue against. This time i am done for real as ive stated already it is pointless to keep talking to you. Have a good day buddy and consider getting a therapist as you need one.
2020-02-17 16:12
#185
 | 
Denmark Zaerdna
Keep replying, I'm loving it
2020-02-17 15:50
#186
 | 
Denmark Zaerdna
Come on mester high horse. Thorin 2.0 I might say tbh.
2020-02-17 15:51
holy fuck man, stop being an entitled POS
2020-02-17 17:45
1 reply
No need to call anyone names. Thank you.
2020-02-18 09:56
Before i stop talking to you i just want to say that the reason i called you ignorant instead of "having a argument" was because you litterly just called me dumb. You were the one that started with the personal attacks and you want me to defend myself with "arguments"? Surely a person can not be as stupid as you hopefully pretend to be, if this was bait it was great so all in all i give you 8/8.
2020-02-17 15:47
hahaha what a conversation u had here. Claiming not to be a biased hater when ur first sentence is literally "ofc Astralis are dbags". What exactly make them dbags in this situation, not being completely stupid and careless about their investments???
2020-02-17 16:26
31 replies
Like ive said i got a problem with Nikolaj Nyholm and he was the one i meant when i said "astralis are dbags" not the team itself. Are all Astralis fangays unable to read or is it just the two of you?
2020-02-17 16:32
30 replies
What a shit way of calling out a single person then. But what can i say, if u dislike a person you know absolutely nothing about apart from a few biased Thorin tweets every now and then im not surprised. Where did i say i was an Astralis fan? im just calling u out for being fucking retarded thats it. Should i assume ur flag and flair as well since u chose not to show it?
2020-02-17 16:39
29 replies
Sure did keep sucking that millionaire dick.
2020-02-17 16:53
24 replies
keep sucking thorins biased dick
2020-02-17 17:20
#247
 | 
Denmark zEHOw~9~
Haha, thank you for taking this discussion with these stupid ass danes :D
2020-02-17 17:50
21 replies
Glad I found a Dane with a brain. I always loved Danish people when i have travelled there but these two people gave me a bad taste in my mouth. Happy to see that not all Danes thing alike. :)
2020-02-17 17:58
18 replies
Just wanna ask: did you learn to spell at all during your school career? Another thing: fuck off with your arguments about 'brainwashing'. It's clear to see that astralis couldn't be bothered to play high intensity tournaments and skipped practically the whole spring and 3/4 of the summer of 2019. They obviously wanted to relax, as well as cater to their 'brilliant' idea of being exclusive to certain brands and make use of their status as #1 in the world. It's kinda obvious you're an astralis hater when you don't even SPECIFY which branch of 'astralis' you're talking about. Btw Astralis and RFRSH are now two different companies, and they have changed their business strategies 8 months ago. Nyholm is not a part of astralis, that's like saying fucking Bill Gates is the executive producer at Microsoft game studios. Plus, don't criticise him for being a fucking businessman.
2020-02-20 14:06
17 replies
I found the butthurt Astralis fanboy.
2020-02-20 14:14
1 reply
I criticised astralis in my fucking comment. Try reading it one more time/
2020-02-20 14:16
You are acting like i insulted you. I merely called the owner of a organisation a crook, why are you so damn butthurt about it? Is it because you have no achievements of your own so you must self-identify with your country, even tho you just happened to be born there. Gosh you are a sad creature.
2020-02-20 14:16
2 replies
I'm not born in Denmark (I have Danish parents), but I'm providing a fucking counterargument to your stupid 'ofc astralis are dbags' comment. If you wanna criticise Nyholm for something other than what is in this article go ahead, just don't fucking shit on the team itself. Btw, it probably wasn't even Nyholm who made the damn decision in the first place.
2020-02-20 14:20
1 reply
The thing i do not understand is why you even bother? I argued another guy, so why are you so offended, that you have to swear at me? I really do not get it, is your identity so easily destroyed?
2020-02-20 14:22
Nyholm did quit RFRESH to join astralis, get your facts together before insulting my spelling.
2020-02-20 14:17
11 replies
He is the CEO of RFRSH you dumb shit
2020-02-20 14:22
10 replies
He was* the CEO of RFRESH then proceeded to leave and join Astralis, do not call me dumb when you are in the wrong.
2020-02-20 14:23
2 replies
1 reply
He is founder and CEO of Astralis group dude it says so on multiple websites, do i have to link it to you?
2020-02-20 14:27
How someone can be wrong and still be so damn certain is fucking beyond me, just google it for heavens sake.
2020-02-20 14:24
6 replies
I did lol. Guess what happened.
2020-02-20 14:26
5 replies
Want me to link? Because apperently you do not know how to google properly.
2020-02-20 14:27
4 replies
if Nyholm isn't the ceo of rfrsh, tell me who is...
2020-02-20 14:29
3 replies
IDK learn to google and find out. Here is his linked in, clearly states that he is the CEO of Astralis group se.linkedin.com/in/nikolajn. I am the stupid one huh?
2020-02-20 14:30
2 replies
google 'current ceo of rfrsh entertainment' lmao, see what happens
2020-02-20 14:32
1 reply
Dude the site is old, are you really this stupid? If you google does vaccine cause autism you will find results, that does not mean it is correct. He used to be the CEO this is why results of sites that is not updated will still show Nikolaj as the current ceo. I did not know i have to explain this but as it seems i am speaking to someone with less then 100 iq, i kinda have to.
2020-02-20 14:34
alle kan se du er en fakeflagging taber
2020-02-17 19:22
1 reply
#309
 | 
Denmark zEHOw~9~
Okay id 10000000000
2020-02-17 23:36
dude* not did btw.
2020-02-17 18:04
Also it is true that i think Thorin is a good analyst and i respect his work. His opinion about the whole Blast fiasco however* was not biased at all as he had not yet started working with what is today known as FLASHPOINT. I really do not understand or see how his vision was clouded with bias. Care to explain?
2020-02-17 18:06
3 replies
You respect Thorin for what exactly? In this whole fiasco called flashpoint he have been attacking ESL left and right without any thought behind it. It's only a week since he claimed that ESL scheduled their tournament purposely to clash with FLASHPOINT which was later found to be false as ESL set their date first. The fact that you have someone like him as the "face" of a tourney who spends the majority of his time critizing others while finding no flaws in his own tourney is just extremely unprofessional. I mean it doesnt take a genious to know how much he would have critized this system of handing out fee's for teams that drop out of top20 if it had been ESL or blast for that matter but since its his own FLASHPOINT shitshow there is of course nothing bad to be said about that.
2020-02-17 19:33
2 replies
For his journalism work and for his work as an anaylst. His opinions about other leagues should not reflect on the good work either if you agree with him or not.
2020-02-17 19:37
1 reply
Now if you do not like his work based on his work alone i have no issue with that. Just that i do not agree with it but thats fine either way.
2020-02-17 19:37
Tldr : Flashpoint so good, Franchising very good ESL very very bad
2020-02-17 12:13
4 replies
thank
2020-02-17 12:46
#223
 | 
Indonesia rareguy
Thabk you smarter guy
2020-02-17 16:48
ty for summery
2020-02-17 17:41
I like Thorin but this was funny. I lold good one dude (actually non ironic even if i sound ironic) :).
2020-02-17 17:59
LOL Thorin sounds Butt-hurt and very bitter - get over it ! Ofcourse Astralis is going to see where they Can get The Best offer ... - as should Any team. Thorins megalomanic delusions seemed to have taken a blow, and his vanity was hurt ... Grow up LOL CS is a business and as such should be approached as such ... there is absolutely nothing wrong in doing recon to see where you Can get The most ...
2020-02-17 12:13
13 replies
ofc CS is a business and you need to pursuit wht is better for the org, but he's talking about ethic. "In the short term, if you don't have any professional ethics, it was the best thing for Astralis"
2020-02-17 13:01
10 replies
ironic consider that he claims to be a journalist but is shilling for TOs and lied consistently. he is the definition of someone that doesn't care about ethics also flashpoint tried to take over the market but esl (and blast) rekt them, now he is crying (like he always does).
2020-02-17 13:29
9 replies
you do realise that his model is actually economically viable? csgo TOs aren't making money at all and this would he's not crying when in a few years, it will be the best league.
2020-02-17 13:47
8 replies
imagine white knighting TOs and thorin. I don't give shit how much money TOs make and I certainly don't want shitty exclusivity leagues, even less so when scumbags like thorin are in charge
2020-02-17 14:12
5 replies
#162
 | 
Sweden Thahunk
If TOs make no money they cant host tournaments, kinda important part of it..
2020-02-17 15:35
3 replies
this literally has never been an issue in CS history and is just some PR bullshit TOs claim. they currently don't make money because it's a bubble and they are all trying to push each other out of the market, e.g. nobody forced them to increase the prize pool. nobody forces them to organize a major and yet there are always multiple companies applying for it...
2020-02-17 16:25
2 replies
#346
 | 
Sweden Thahunk
Wrong. The increased prizepool is driven both by greedy orgs and a stupid fanbase. Aswell as standard market economy. For a TO to keep in the game (and get top tier teams in their tournaments so they get any ad revenue) they need to keep investing. A major is one thing, but do you really think competitive CS would be better without all the other tournaments? Dreamhack, Blast etc.
2020-02-18 14:03
1 reply
not sure what your point is. yes it's orgs and players that put pressure on TOs because they have a lot of negotiating power. but as you said yourself, it's just market economy. if no TO could ever make any money then they would leave the market, prize pools would start to fall to the point where it become profitable again to do events. no different than any industry. they are making losses because they are part of the esports bubble. also note that more people complaining about this have an interest in it. e.g. commentators get paid by TOs.
2020-02-18 14:34
That's a stupid take, it takes hundreds of man hours to set these up. If the talent doing that isn't earning money they'll take their talents elsewhere. This is 101 stuff. CS wouldn't be what it is today without tournaments like CPL, regardless of how good the player talent is.
2020-02-17 20:46
"his model is actually economically viable" and you know this how exactly? the vice-ceo of flashpoint was literally on a hltv podcast talking about how they didnt know if this was gonna be a financial good decisions for the teams or the TO for that matter.
2020-02-17 16:24
1 reply
#325
 | 
Australia g00sey
Pretty sure you're thinking of Carmac who works for ESL
2020-02-18 06:33
#90
 | 
India vighu999
Honestly, franchising is going to ruin Competitive CS, next Overwatch...
2020-02-17 13:31
1 reply
Yeah I took a break from CS and coming back to see the franchising has really put a downer on it all
2020-02-17 13:56
Astralis 1 - Thorin 0
2020-02-17 12:15
Thorin just can't keep his foot out of his mouth sometimes. Yeah Astralis went house shopping, it's a big investment for any organization Oh yeah, and for all the talk of "professionalism", Thorin, in his capacity as the Creative Director of this new league describes the business conduct of the world's #1 ranked team as "fuckery". Really setting the tone there pal
2020-02-17 12:22
2 replies
He actually didn't. Those are two different paragraphs and fuckery wasn't aimed at Astralis specifically.
2020-02-17 20:24
1 reply
Well the title was editorialized as if they were
2020-02-17 21:20
It's not like everyone saw it coming, as if the big names would pass on EPL for an obscure new league...
2020-02-17 12:16
3 replies
Basically the new ECS???
2020-02-17 12:20
2 replies
Even ECS was more prestigious than this league, in ECS there were multiple top 10 teams attending. Without big orgs Flashpoint will just be a meme league. Farm-team league, nothing more.
2020-02-17 12:26
You say that as if it's a good thing while ECS has been one of the biggest clusterfucks in recent memories, even FACEIT themselves admited to that.
2020-02-17 12:28
Affiliation checks out. nt Thorin
2020-02-17 12:16
Fuckery is such a Thorin word...
2020-02-17 12:19
How much?
2020-02-17 12:20
#27
 | 
Japan chanse
thorin....
2020-02-17 12:23
#33
 | 
Brazil fuNNa
classic thorin
2020-02-17 12:27
yes we know why do you think blastralis was coined at them?
2020-02-17 12:29
6 replies
#104
 | 
Denmark Zaerdna
You're in the minority now brother KEK. Keep crying
2020-02-17 13:52
5 replies
cry about what..?
2020-02-17 14:03
4 replies
#113
 | 
Denmark Zaerdna
Astralis, no matter what they do, people like you will always cry about them.
2020-02-17 14:11
3 replies
????????? what
2020-02-17 14:11
1 reply
Astralis Fan brain
2020-02-17 15:35
#228
 | 
Indonesia rareguy
flair checks out
2020-02-17 16:51
classic two faced throin pandering as always
2020-02-17 12:33
#37
 | 
Brazil user_namer
F word in hltv wtf admins
2020-02-17 12:33
lol what a whiny b**** ....
2020-02-17 12:33
"After announcing that he was joining FLASHPOINT (at the time still known as 'B Site') as Creative Director, Thorin quickly became, willingly or otherwise, the face of the project. " I'd be quite concerned at this point if I were FLASHPOINT lul. Everything I've seen from Thorin over the past few months makes him out to be a blustery, un-selfaware and egotistical twat.
2020-02-17 12:34
7 replies
#45
 | 
World Beard43
Only the past few months, really?
2020-02-17 12:37
6 replies
Idk I never followed HLTV enough to care Even just this gem from Thorin: "I don't know why everyone is crying about the fines and those owners if they have bad teams and are losing money. I'm glad they're going to lose money, that will maybe make them think twice about what it means to be in esports. " You want the face of your company to be telling organizations and their corporate backers that objections to your business model is "crying"? Lmaooooooo grow up Thorin
2020-02-17 12:41
5 replies
#71
 | 
World Beard43
Yeah that one was solid lol This was a great interview by MIRAA though. I'm glad he included this part; "...franchising deals that have been criticised by many in the last few years, including Thorin. Isn’t it ironic then that he finds himself at the dinner table with the very same people..." His immediate answer was truthful too 'it's great for me' because what he loves is money in his pocket. His idea of a sustainable industry seems to be throwing as much fast cash as possible at players and 'talent'.
2020-02-17 13:08
4 replies
Seriously I've read the article a couple times out of sheer astonishment at how poorly Thorin gets his point across. Who wouldn't want to work with a league that dimes out sour negotiations and trashes the organization for it? Or describes their partner's previous arrangements as "deserving punishment"? Or the where the PR man says he's glad that you'll be burning a hole in your pocket when you fall out of top form? Thorin's leash needs to be tightened or he's going to babble his way out the door
2020-02-17 13:17
3 replies
He will get rekt by the orgs soon and he still won't understand the main reason where he's going wrong
2020-02-17 13:44
#229
 | 
Indonesia rareguy
+1
2020-02-17 16:52
#269
 | 
World Beard43
+1
2020-02-17 19:21
Great interview as always with Thorin answering the questions.
2020-02-17 12:36
2 replies
nt Thorin
2020-02-17 14:28
1 reply
Fuck i am exposed, well here i go make another alt xD
2020-02-17 14:29
this flashpoint league is so weird. So we're having a bunch of b/2nd-tier teams but they all have to pay $100k a month then since they should all be outside top20. Or is their ranking some wierd results that put all the b-teams in top20? what a joke
2020-02-17 12:37
10 replies
#54
 | 
Slovakia Fortal
This is the thing I don't get. FLASHPOINT was specifically branded and aimed at tier 2 teams, so that anyone can make it in the business, yet thooorin is acting like the teams in FLASHPOINT are the ones that have bottomless pockets and can pay a $1m buyout for the best of the best players.
2020-02-17 12:45
9 replies
#64
 | 
Finland 0lter
Wtf are you on about? The league was marketed at the biggest orgs that can afford the buy in and as enticements they give more of the profits to teams. The fact the teams are t2 has nothing to do with it. It just happens that the big orgs; mibr, c9 gen.g etc have crap teams atm. and they most certainly can afford better teams and the buy in but simply choose not to
2020-02-17 13:01
7 replies
But that doesn't mean that they should pay $100,000 as fine for not being in top 20 Wtf
2020-02-17 13:46
Biggest orgs doesn't mean best teams C9 is a great example for that. And this teams can't buy the best players cuz they don't want play for them. Money is obv not everything
2020-02-17 15:01
5 replies
#279
 | 
Finland 0lter
Your comment has nothing of value to contribute to this thread as even a lame dog would know everything you just pointed out
2020-02-17 20:11
4 replies
are you stupid or an Ence fan? You say top clans could buy teams and players. they obv can't cuz money isnt everything. Since top players get good money from their orgs and they can stay at home. Zywoo to c9? why? S1mple gen.g? why? Electronic with a child to Complexity? Why? C9 can only have these players when they chose to stay in EU and a player like S1mple and zywoo prefer to play with their region players.
2020-02-17 20:46
3 replies
#304
 | 
Finland 0lter
Hahaha s1mple was willing to go play in brazil last year but they didnt want flamie so the deal didnt go through. "Since top players get good money from their orgs and they can stay at home." You think playing at home and making money is what the best players want to do? Fuck no. They want to win. If they think they have better chance at home then they stay but without doubt if vitality keep being shit and navi keep being shit then s1mple and zywoo leave for orgs that can buy them out If c9 wants to make a juggernaut team they can without a question they simply choose not to. I mean why would you buy a team now if you are going to get them half price soon
2020-02-17 23:02
2 replies
S1mple was never willing to play in Brazil. That is why he denied the offer. But PLZ tell more bullshit. Zywoo can't speak good English and he is a person that wants to stay home. For him it isn't about money. Otherwise he had taken the g2 offer with more start salary. Familie is important for this players. Sth C9 can't buy with money.
2020-02-18 14:57
1 reply
#375
 | 
Finland 0lter
s1mple said: 'I'll go, I'll go'. during negotiotions so I dont know wtf you are on about never wanting to join piss off mate. Also MIBR doesnt play in brazil they are north american org with gaming house in cali so even more bs from you He last minute "changed his mind". He 100% was willing to go, most likely navi made him better deal last minute and mibr backed out of the deal. So piss off with your made up BS. dbltap.com/posts/6021825-sources-natus-v.. "Zywoo can't speak good English and he is a person that wants to stay home. " He's 18 new languages can be learned and coach of vitality himself has said if vitality doesnt become almost the best team in the world they will go international which forces him to speak english so him staying in french speaking team isnt in any way certain. "Familie is important for this players." Lmao you are an idiot
2020-02-19 00:03
+1 While the so far announced teams are barely in top20 nowadays (HLTV rankings) and can fell off in no time.
2020-02-17 13:02
"There was a lot of fuckery behind the scenes.
2020-02-17 12:41
TLDR What did he say ?
2020-02-17 12:42
1 reply
#138
 | 
Sweden Lingon
ESL and Astralis bad Flash point good
2020-02-17 14:50
Thorin is probably doing the worst PR that one could imagine for the league. Hope there are some Twitter rants to come.
2020-02-17 12:42
1 reply
Astralis has no reason to work with a guy like Thorin who throw shit on them for no reason.
2020-02-17 14:58
A meme tournament with a meme frontman, my thoughts and prayers are with any team signing up with flashpoint.
2020-02-17 12:46
4 replies
#58
 | 
World Beard43
+1
2020-02-17 12:54
+1
2020-02-17 13:04
+1
2020-02-17 13:30
+1
2020-02-17 16:42
#57
 | 
World Beard43
He would be dead against this league if they weren't paying him, evidenced by the fact that he has always been dead against these kinds of leagues. This is nothing like Blastralis. On this occasion teams have to choose, one or the other and Astralis (and every other team) not only have the right, but the duty to all employees (including the players and management etc) and sponsors to make sure that the path they choose is the best one possible, this requires information gathering and negotiation. Funny how all the good teams chose EPL eh. "If I were a player, I would say: ‘How much is blameF making?..." Seriously, this is spoken like a true beta who's never been good enough to win anything in his life. If I were a player I would want to be the best, I would want to win. With wins comes money regardless of the organisation. I didn't like the sound of the B league from the get go but with every piece of news it gets worse.
2020-02-17 12:53
1 reply
+1
2020-02-17 13:05
#59
 | 
Latvia Ke]R[4u
so astralis did the smart thing and got best possible offer for them, well played
2020-02-17 12:54
He shouldn't have been so cocky critizising ESL when all their own league now has is tier 2 teams and the very same problems when it comes to invites, qualifier and match dates that he gave ESL shit for. You have to practice what you preach and Faceit has handled all this just as poorly. I still can fully understand why you would be offensive in this kind of a competition, but maybe it's time to take the L and focus on improving Flashpoint as a league gradually and cut the crap talk about ESL. I mean at this point, Tier 2-3 Clans like BIG and Sprout would rather play MDL than Flashpoint because you offer them nothing they care for.
2020-02-17 12:55
1 reply
+1
2020-02-17 13:06
#61
 | 
Finland 0lter
Esl are fuckery doos
2020-02-17 12:58
TLDR: Thorin is upset he got outplayed by Astralis
2020-02-17 12:59
TRIGGERED
2020-02-17 13:04
nt thorin, astralis are the smart ones here thorin’s only saying this cus he’s getting paid lmfao considering everyone knows he’s against shit like this normally, pathetic. who would want to play in tier 2 league tho fr, how could anyone take thorin seriously
2020-02-17 13:09
#76
 | 
Poland SebL
FLASHPOINT was kinda overhyped.
2020-02-17 13:15
"ASTRALIS WAS THE WORST OFFENDER" Wow, how am i not shocked? lol.
2020-02-17 13:16
23 replies
#105
 | 
Denmark Zaerdna
TL;DR He crying about Astralis making the smart decision. Keep showing your obvious bias, you look dumb every time :)
2020-02-17 13:55
2 replies
I am a fan of them and I have no problem believing what Thorin is saying. They have made some very destructive decisions on the business side. You don't have to agree with me but it's important to separate the love for the incredible CS they play and the great players in the team from the business side of things. You don't have to hate them for it but they did deny a chance to help the scene immensely.
2020-02-17 19:19
1 reply
#326
 | 
Australia g00sey
Definitely in the past they've made some destructive decisions on the business side but what is the problem here? They had to choose one or the other because of this soft exclusivity and obviously they'd shop around for the best deal as would anyone
2020-02-18 06:47
#112
Joee | 
Japan mainz
And you notoriously hate on Astralis every time you can. Astralis has done nothing wrong here and are in their right to choose the best deal for them self like every team should.
2020-02-17 14:07
19 replies
"And you notoriously hate on Astralis every time you can." Because they destroyed the cs scene? lol.
2020-02-17 14:15
18 replies
playing good is a bad thing?
2020-02-17 15:11
13 replies
Did i say that? I said that they destroyed the whole scene for a long period of time. Finally Liquid and more teams are starting to smash them.
2020-02-17 15:12
12 replies
but you hate them for being good
2020-02-17 15:13
11 replies
Not only that. I hate some players in Astralis as well.
2020-02-17 15:14
10 replies
that's weird.
2020-02-17 15:14
1 reply
Why? Some people hate FalleN and not MIBR as an example.
2020-02-17 15:16
good thing ur irrelevant AF then hahaha
2020-02-17 16:33
7 replies
Flag checks out.
2020-02-17 16:35
6 replies
so does yours LMFAO
2020-02-17 16:36
5 replies
Uhm..not really?
2020-02-17 16:36
4 replies
swedes have the biggest inferiority complex towards danes on hltv ever since we took over.
2020-02-17 16:39
3 replies
Eh? Not really. I just hate Astralis and some of the players. I got no problem with North / MAD Lions / coL Danes etc lol.
2020-02-17 16:41
2 replies
what did astralis do in particular except being good
2020-02-17 16:49
1 reply
This guy is too much lmao! I've met the astralis players during one of their stints in London, super chill guys. What is there to hate about them if you don't know them personally? Them playing 'too' well?
2020-02-20 14:14
#224
Joee | 
Japan mainz
If anything they set the bar even higher for teams to strive for and be better. Such a close minded view to have on things lol "destroyed the cs scene" lmaaaao
2020-02-17 16:49
#242
 | 
United Kingdom galaxyv2
can't tell if troll or just stupid but since you are meistr0 I presume it's just your lack of iq.
2020-02-17 17:35
2 replies
Cry is free Owen.
2020-02-17 17:39
1 reply
#244
 | 
United Kingdom galaxyv2
who the fuck is owen
2020-02-17 17:39
BLASTRALUL
2020-02-17 13:18
lmao he is such a hypocrite...this interview is sooooo funny. really made my day
2020-02-17 13:19
hahaha get fucked thorin ofc Astralis doesnt wonna play your shitty tier5 tourney
2020-02-17 13:20
ok. Why does the author mention Shoreditch like it's a separate city? Why not London and Los Angeles. Or just say Shoreditch and Fairfax, if you think everyone is familiar with London and LA's districts.
2020-02-17 13:28
1 reply
You're absolutely right. Thank you
2020-02-17 13:31
Thorin cries like a baby hahahahahahaha Lmao thorin go live in some other dimension where you're interesting and other people take u seriously
2020-02-17 13:28
I stopped reading at "thorim"
2020-02-17 13:36
3 replies
Where did you read that??
2020-02-17 22:30
2 replies
.????? First word........ In the title.. That's where I stopped reading kkkkkkkkkkkk dont wanna hear what thorin wants to say
2020-02-17 22:40
1 reply
but you wrote Thorim
2020-02-17 23:31
Great interview Miraa, also thorin deserves no respect as he does not even respect the other orgs who he wants to play in flashpoint by saying that they should stop crying. What an absolute joke thorin is
2020-02-17 13:41
Wow he does really not understand how business and negotiations work. B site gave the teams the leverage to get a better cut out of esl. Obviously they used it. Did he think the teams just squirm when b site comes in and pay their 2 million buy in +100k per month for being trash? Lul. Thorin should have stocked to being the walking liquipedia citer as he obviously has no idea how money and business works.
2020-02-17 13:46
1 reply
+1
2020-02-17 13:58
Exciting article, good job MIRAA!
2020-02-17 13:47
A lot of fuckery mens ))
2020-02-17 13:48
Can this guy do anything but complain..
2020-02-17 13:51
1 reply
+1
2020-02-17 15:24
#108
 | 
Germany BIG2020
SELLPOINT
2020-02-17 13:59
teams rather play MDL thatn his flashpoint shit........ wonder why))))))))))))))))))))))))
2020-02-17 14:04
What a massive cry baby! Sign up for business 101 and stfu.. I have no idea why FLASHPOINT are letting this business rookie represent their league. The level of cringe corporate communication is outstanding. GG doomed tier2-3 project.
2020-02-17 14:06
How is he mad at Astralis for trying to get the best deal possible. He acts like being in flashpoint is a privilege and that Astralis should have gotten on their knees for flashpoint. thorin = delusional
2020-02-17 14:16
1 reply
You really, perfectly, worded my thoughts. Thanks mate. 8/8.
2020-02-18 05:51
Who the hell puts Thorin at the front of anything? All this fuss to end up being worse than ECS, Flashpoint needs to rethink their PR and get their shit togheter,
2020-02-17 14:21
Lol
2020-02-17 14:23
blastralis 2 face?
2020-02-17 14:27
he used own advantage. independent analyst. don't mind singe side.
2020-02-17 14:28
Thorin has no clue what players think. First a S1mple wouldn't leave Navi for money. His liquid time was a great teacher. Second an aleksbi refused blamef salary cuz he want stay in Europe. Thorin has no clue what actually happens and this guy call himself a talent? With semmler together he is the "no clue" duo
2020-02-17 14:28
4 replies
I'm sure krimz and device would love to play in gen.g
2020-02-17 18:34
3 replies
Device like his life in Denmark. He pays 70% taxes cuz he want to stay there. I doubt he would switch for money to NA and krimz is not a top 10 elite player. he is more on blameF level.
2020-02-17 20:42
2 replies
Ever heard of sarcasm? And btw krimz is definitely a top 10 elite player. You'll see in the next months
2020-02-18 12:56
1 reply
Where is your kappa? Otherwise I could insult you and say it was only sarcasm. Krimz elite player 10 years ago.
2020-02-18 14:53
Can someone explain the economics behind these leagues? What the incentive for the team to pay 2M fine to enter the league? How the shares are split between teams?
2020-02-17 14:36
lol
2020-02-17 14:50
500 IQ - Astralis
2020-02-17 14:55
And one thing people forget is that this is just one league and compete vs esl with epl and 15-20 top tournaments by them. This vs 20 million by 10 teams to make revenue. Even with math the league is a bubble with nothing inside.
2020-02-17 14:56
"First of all, it's great for me," = Sellout
2020-02-17 15:00
1 reply
#275
 | 
World Beard43
100%
2020-02-17 19:37
bruh
2020-02-17 15:03
tldr
2020-02-17 15:28
Blast 2020 >>> ESL/Flashpoint 2020
2020-02-17 15:33
2 replies
+1
2020-02-17 17:54
Esl 2020 >= blast 2020 >>>>>>>>>>> fla-shit league
2020-02-17 18:33
Lul
2020-02-17 15:38
At least Th0rin speaks up his mind. Sometimes he has a point, sometimes he has not. Don't know how much costs sign-in for ESL league or Blast Series .... But 2M is a lot!
2020-02-17 15:49
ok
2020-02-17 16:28
$2M entry fee for a scuffed (and probably RIGGED) league. Sounds like the biggest 2020 scammaz in cs go. Plz Thorin just stay on twitter, that's the only thing you can do.
2020-02-17 16:41
To start with, who, omg... WHO in his sane mind would bet in a figure like thorin to be the face of something, unless a public toillete? What was the term again? "professional ethics"? How dare someone like you to talk about professional ethics? Honestly, I don't even understand how Mibr get along which this kind of human being... twitter.com/thorin/status/11523585607115.. > For example, and read the replies from some top brasilian players. Same can be said about former NiP players, now playing at Dignitas. Did someone care to ask GTR what does he thinks about this poor guy? clips.twitch.tv/BlueUgliestHerbsPeteZaro.. dbltap.com/posts/5094338-video-thorin-ro.. youtube.com/watch?v=3_vug4Jm0rQ And so many more! What kind of a person do you have to become to work with this guy? Professional ethics? ffs...stfu!
2020-02-17 16:41
2 replies
Hahahaha they're messing with Thoorin. Fallen said "they [fans] don't learn. Thoorin is never wrong. He will find a way" meaning that thoorin will rephrase and "contextualize" whatever controversial statement he said before so that he is not wrong
2020-02-18 01:23
1 reply
Well, you actually may be right... However, it doesn't explain how you are willing to work with a buffon, someone that is pure trash as a person and an average, low-average, commentator.
2020-02-18 14:56
Some tl:Dr of this interview? I can't read more than 10 words from thorim baiter...help me!
2020-02-17 16:43
1 reply
2020-02-17 18:30
I still can't comprehend how an esports title that wants to become professional hires Thorin to do anything? How do you not just kick him out of the scene when you want to go pro and gain credibility? This guy does not have ethics, does not know how to be professional and the way he is going after ESL proves it. There should be no space for guys like thorin in ANY professional industry, esports or sports. Plus, he adds nothing to desks, his analyses are dull and give no insights. His hosting skills are non existent. His entertainment value is only valued by 13 y.o.
2020-02-17 16:50
5 replies
+100
2020-02-17 17:07
1 reply
8/8
2020-02-17 17:18
I agree with you and him too in a sense. Ofc he dislikes ESL but the thing is ESL and flashpoint should exist cohesively. Seeing the teams in flashpoint it seems that ESL doesn't want flashpoint to exist. Just saying we need good tournaments all over the season and should contribute in bringing cs on a level with other esports like dota.
2020-02-17 18:06
1 reply
We already had good tournaments over the season , wtf are u on? Cs has had one of the best pro circuits in esports , not that I really watch any off the other esports
2020-02-17 18:30
100% Suddenly, he talks as if he have invented the game or the competition...
2020-02-18 14:59
D: F word
2020-02-17 17:05
#232
cam | 
United States girls
how much cry can you buy with 2mil
2020-02-17 17:07
This is way above his paygrade
2020-02-17 17:18
BREAKING NEWS: COMPANY TRIES TO MAKE MONEY
2020-02-17 17:19
2 replies
+1
2020-02-17 18:36
+1
2020-02-17 19:03
This entire league is just bizarre. Tier 2-4 teams paying shitloads of money, and risking massive fines. What on earth is going on here? This will be a clusterfuck. ESL for me!
2020-02-17 17:23
1 reply
the thing is, a lot of the teams should be outside top20 so are they going to fine 1/3 of the league every month? I find the whole concept very weird.
2020-02-18 03:50
who?
2020-02-17 17:29
He is true though. I just want all three Blast,ESL and flashpoint remain cohesively like last year.
2020-02-17 17:55
Tl ; Dr Thorin works for flashpoint , and is trying really hard to make us realize just how big of a deal this league is and it's gonna change csgo and end esl with their clever money shit even though the article clearly states that so far "Esl seems to have an edge". Astralis and fnatic still seem to be in esl , while teams like geng and complexity are playing in this new league. Thorin believes that next year fnatic and astralis players will leave their orgs to join gen.g because of the insane amount of money the players are making (big LUL). Astralis didn't really do anything that offensive. At the end of the day , nobody ( fans ) really gave a shit about esl pro league and ecs. Ecs was entirely shit , but epl finals were always entertaining , which is the same as almost a dozen other events that esl arranges in one year. Idk how these league battles will affect the 2 companies in terms of money , but you can rest assured than now u are going to have 2 boring ass leagues with boring ass finals and I hope if stays that way because if this tug of war shit goes any further and affects other tournaments it's gonna break csgo apart
2020-02-17 18:27
4 replies
+1 to the part Astralis didn't really do anything that bad and Thorin overreacting -1 CSGO won't be broken apart by this xd
2020-02-17 19:29
3 replies
I'm saying if it goes further it will kill csgo. Right now , it's just about the leagues. But Imagine if in the future we'll have some blast like shitty deal and teams will be in contract with separate TO's and will have to play their events no matter what. We'll have a segregated scene and events with only a fraction of the total number of top teams. I can see something like this happening if this tug of war keeps progressing , and that's what will kill csgo
2020-02-17 19:46
2 replies
Valve already said organizers can't force exclusivity though
2020-02-17 19:55
1 reply
That's good news
2020-02-18 12:56
Man, he is doing a wonderful job of convincing top 10 teams to join his tournament series with this most gracious interview (NOT)
2020-02-17 18:35
Me after reading this. "Everyrhing is paid, everything is scripted. Everything is rigged."
2020-02-17 20:06
thorin biggest dickhead in cs. ever. I don't know why people are still giving jobs to this asshole.
2020-02-17 20:18
1 reply
Imagine if you only had guys like banks, get right and pimp at the events. Now that would be so exciting.
2020-02-18 03:48
There is no condom. Already started to eating CS GO by Money. Thank you Thorin . We will trying to save CS GO
2020-02-17 20:39
Stop fookin around thorin >:(
2020-02-17 21:16
#290
 | 
Venezuela rodux
HONESTLY.... Who puts Thorin at the front of anything??? THORIN is delusional.
2020-02-17 21:20
2 replies
He's real and transparent to the point that truth hurts
2020-02-17 22:04
1 reply
#362
 | 
Denmark Zaerdna
No, he's a fake journalist with a god complex
2020-02-18 16:48
ive been saying for ages i dont know how he keeps getting work :/
2020-02-17 21:20
we need audio interviews, TL;DR
2020-02-17 21:25
2Millions buy in, 100 monthly fines? Really ??? To be part of the tier2 league in an ecosystem that isn't profitable for team owners...??? What a surprise this whole thing is a bust..!!!
2020-02-17 22:05
#297
 | 
Russia GramDEL
Tldr
2020-02-17 22:19
2 replies
#392
 | 
Malta MIHAJA
Thorin whining like a bitch because ESL are offering a better alternative so Flashpoint attracted no Tier 1 teams.
2020-02-20 09:29
1 reply
#425
 | 
Russia GramDEL
Ty, took you long enough
2020-02-20 21:36
Thorin AKA sour grapes ... ofcourse teams weigh their options, did he honestly not expect them to be played like that? Naive! I have always liked Thorin for saying things as he sees them but this is a bit ludicrous.
2020-02-17 22:28
"I actually don't believe they were actually genuine or authentic about wanting to be in this particular league, I think they tried to get all the info they could and that, cleverly, for their own interest, they played both of the leagues against each other to try to get the best offer they could." there is absolutely nothing wrong with that lmao. Theyre doing whats best for them as they should be. Being the #1 team has its perks. Thorin is just barking at a wall as usual.
2020-02-17 23:01
I'm amazed that some people give credit to what this absolute tard is saying. Nothing makes sense. The guy basically starts by saying that he doesn't know what he's talking about but will still insult everyone doing an actual good job anyway. 2 M buy in and 100k monthly fines for an org that himself doesn't know shit about and he's surprised that not everyone is applauding just because his ugly face is on the website. What a fucking joke
2020-02-18 00:13
#317
 | 
Brazil Lex_FWM
thorin the worst caster
2020-02-18 02:18
What else did you want for Astralis, the #1 team, to do? LMAO. Barking off a wall as usual. This entire statement sounds like a joke lol
2020-02-18 05:44
please remove the f word from the title thx
2020-02-18 06:51
The ranting mad thorin is on it again. Can he just relax and shut the fuck up?
2020-02-18 08:09
Thorin is delusional if he thinks flashpoint is gonna make profit by tier 2-4 teams.
2020-02-18 08:32
For someone who has followed CS for as long as Thorin ... he sure as hell doesnt know much ... Just as I thought I couldnt see/hear a dumber comment coming out from Thorins arse ... he makes this interview ... LOL “Stupid is, as stupid does” ... - Think Thorin should consider himself lucky if anyone wants him back ad a host once Flashpoint tanks ... - mainly due to Thorin alienating other teams/orgs ... LMAO
2020-02-18 08:40
3 replies
#391
 | 
Malta MIHAJA
+1 8/8
2020-02-20 09:21
You don't have close to the insight he gets from actual players and teams, behind the scenes people. But hey, I guess this was your chance to feel good about yourself lol.
2020-02-23 10:27
1 reply
Gai Thorin fan-boi detected ... LOL Tell me again what in Thorins interview that actually made sense, besides being bitter about being “let Down” by some of The top teams ? Flashpoint Will be an inferior tournament, and Thorin who thought he could “pull in Big name teams” Got his ego hurt ... that is clear ... - Only deluded (Thorin) fan-Bois are in denial about this ... Are *You* one ? LOL
2020-02-23 11:54
#334
 | 
Malta MIHAJA
Thorin is just irrelevant so he keeps trying to stir up drama to stay popular. He hasn't had relevant criticism since 2016 and now just spews stupid shit
2020-02-18 08:43
1 reply
That's all the clown does shit talks everyone
2020-02-18 14:24
Omg hes so full of shit i hate him
2020-02-18 09:30
#339
 | 
Switzerland Sylleo
he's now all-in with a weak hand
2020-02-18 10:09
that shit's gonna fail so hard hahahaha
2020-02-18 13:09
Thorin 🥴🥴🤪🤪🤪😠
2020-02-18 14:06
I cannot stand thorin he has something negative to say about everything get rid of this guy from the scene absolute clown
2020-02-18 14:24
Throined axaxaxaxaxa
2020-02-18 14:25
Soooo you can choose between a well established organiser and brand and some new thing which the creators themselves don't even really know what they're doing plus risking going busto? Correct me if I'm wrong please.
2020-02-18 16:10
#361
 | 
Brunei cyLoL
Thorin is a fuckboy so it doesn’t matter I’m glad he’s crying again
2020-02-18 16:42
1 reply
#363
 | 
Brunei cyLoL
Oh I forgot he’s a 2iq Scot too should leave csgo again and stay gone this time
2020-02-18 16:54
It's sad how someone who wants to be recognized as an objective journalist just sells his soul to a specific franchise league, and then starts raging like a maniac at everything and everyone who doesn't immediately fall in line with his new overlord. I hope he at least get paid A LOT by Flashpoint, for dragging his own brand through the mud. It's quite sad to watch, as someone who used to follow his content. :,(
2020-02-18 17:47
cry is free
2020-02-18 20:09
#368
 | 
Sweden Akoulad
Thorin is so dumb
2020-02-18 20:45
fuck astralizzz
2020-02-18 21:21
#373
 | 
Germany cTm|oNe
CRY IS FREE
2020-02-18 23:40
catering for garbage teams :)
2020-02-19 07:40
#382
 | 
Denmark c0re_
ESL is an OG in competitive cs, did thorin actually think his tier two shitment would go places
2020-02-19 08:15
Thorin = one of the most overated person in CS GO . Bad player , bad analyst etc. I still remember when he was analyzing live a big tour and had 0/13 right who gonna win
2020-02-19 10:29
#385
 | 
Turkey MusTRelax
Thorin, bruh, let's cry some more. No one gonna take care of that feakin tier 2-5 league. And faceit will go for ecs season 9.
2020-02-19 12:59
''ASTRALIS WAS THE WORST OFFENDER'' What does this even mean?! they played it smart and how any business should. nothing wrong with that.
2020-02-19 14:20
2 replies
It means that they were the worst offender
2020-02-24 14:11
1 reply
very helpful of you xD!
2020-02-24 17:20
Very professional journalism
2020-02-19 22:52
#390
 | 
Hong Kong TROIIDA
thorin still a fucking clown
2020-02-20 04:42
#419
 | 
China LPCaCO3
Loathsome.
2020-02-20 16:04
Thorin sux
2020-02-20 23:15
thorin keepin it real, esports is a bubble and sooner people realize that the better
2020-02-21 01:42
tl;dr pls?
2020-02-21 13:52
Thorin is malding rn. Too bad, I don't like Flashpoint.
2020-02-23 19:39
Since when a multimillion corporation is an offender when they trying to figure out what is the best deal for them ? Thorin, get a life.
2020-02-24 13:55
So weird, Astralis wanted to earn us much as they can XD It is so... logical xD Thorin would play for free?
2020-02-24 15:15
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