Flashpoint, CSPPA in dispute over $165,000 fee

1/7/2020 - 20:16

A dispute between Flashpoint and the Counter-Strike Professional Players' Association (CSPPA) has been made public following a report by DBLTAP, with the tournament organiser making a series of scathing remarks about the player association.

The report by DBLTAP revealed a letter sent by Flashpoint to the CSPPA in which the tournament organiser stated that it is withholding payment of a previously-agreed $165,000 sum for the players' intellectual property rights for the opening season. The letter claims that CSPPA's inaction caused the Flashpoint league and players a loss of revenue, and implies a potential conflict of interest and lack of transparency from the association.

Flashpoint and the CSPPA are in a dispute

In the leaked letter, it is mentioned that a prospective monitor sponsor backed out of a deal with Flashpoint due to CSPPA not responding to requests about the viability of those monitors for the "Event Minimum Standard" in time. Other allegations made by Flashpoint in the letter include the CSPPA failing to engage in rules discussion, which hindered Flashpoint in their attempts to penalize players for misbehaviors, the player association's failure to create a ranking system and its "purported conflict of interest", tied to the Heroic - FunPlus Phoenix transfer that fell apart at the final hour.

CSPPA followed the report with a statement on Twitter, claiming that "the baseless allegations" are "completely unrelated" to the $165,000 fee Flashpoint owes CSPPA for the players' IP rights.

Additionally, CSPPA rejected allegations that it operated as an agency with regards to the Heroic roster's transfer to FunPlus Phoenix by advising the players to make "new, severely above-market salary demands" at the final hurdle, causing the deal to collapse. The player association replied stating that it "stepped in to help a group of players in a very tough situation" and that one of its core services is to provide advice on contracts and other legal matters. This claim has seemingly been challenged by Heroic CEO Erik Askered, who wrote on Twitter: "Did these guys simply forget that it was an actual person they negotiated with? Or did they just think I wouldn’t see this tweet?"

Flashpoint has not officially commented on the matter.

Very interesting...

2020-07-01 20:16

21 replies

2020-07-01 20:17

1 reply

Inb4 this is somehow Thorin fault

2020-07-01 20:36

personalities

2020-07-01 20:19

Oof laziness costed them 165k rip

2020-07-01 20:42

17 replies

The 165k seems to be a fee every tournament organizer has to pay, flashpoint is just making a fuss because they are petty

2020-07-01 20:55

16 replies

No, just CSPPA wants the money, that they would have right to if they would first fulfil the contract with Flashpoint. They didn't and that's why Flashpoint has frozen the money.

2020-07-01 21:04

15 replies

+1 yes, losing a sponsor can result in huge financial problems regarding fulfillment of everyone's pay, etc etc, csppa messed up big time.

2020-07-01 21:23

can't find anything about CSPPA having any contractual obligations to flashpoint. if that where the case it certainly would be a different case, but currently it just looks like flashpoint is going eye-for-an-eye on the CSPPA, except that legaly the CSPPA is in the right and flashpoint is not. I assume we don't have the full info though, so I'll be excited to see how it pans out

2020-07-01 22:02

13 replies

? if flashpoint was legally in the wrong you think they can freeze payment of 160k LUL

2020-07-01 22:12

10 replies

what? how is flashpoint paying the CSPPA different from you paying bills? you get an invoice, and if you ignore it you keep your money. and then the legal system kicks in, which is what we are seeing. if flashpoint had a serious point, why doesnt the article talk about the CSPPAs contractual obligations?

2020-07-01 22:22

9 replies

M8 ITS 165k no one is just going to withhold that if they are legally going to lose that battle doesnt make any sense no matter what

2020-07-01 22:23

8 replies

Fights over large sums of money happen all the time in courts all over the world, don't be naive. My guess is Flashpoint are trying to weasel out due to not having the money. P.S. In the original article it says that there were 2 contracts and those were for IPs. Not for "devising a new ranking system" and other stuff. I guess we will see in coming days. The fishy one in my opinion is the Heroic CEO - the threatened to give evidence to expose everyone about wrongdoing and he delivered nothing.

2020-07-02 00:48

probably just malding about losing the FPX deal LUL, but the best part is he is all talk didnt do shit to AST for "ruining the deal"

2020-07-02 01:25

So Windigo winning (And then disbanding after) WESG and their prize money being frozen for what nearly a year. This just doesn’t happen is what you are saying? I can give more examples if needed man

2020-07-02 05:45

5 replies

different between chinese companies and US/EU companies

2020-07-02 11:53

4 replies

Greed transcends country boundaries.

2020-07-02 20:08

3 replies

maybe you misunderstood me, but in china these companies can't be held countable while for EU/NA companies they can be taken to court (or at least in most cases I guess unless you get assassinated or some shit)

2020-07-02 20:11

2 replies

So you are saying that no EU/NA company is doing shady shit about not paying money because of fear they will be sued. Come on ... You can't be that naive... Tons of companies this try stuff if the will get a lot of money even defending BS in courts. We had a whole global economic crisis 10 years ago because of companies not being afraid to do illegal sh*t with market manipulations and whole tons of other financial crimes. And barely anyone got in jail in the end.

2020-07-02 22:34

sure if you take it to a global context yes you can dodge it, but I mean I am talking about similar shit like WESG/what is happening now with CSPPA and flashpoint not global financial corruption

2020-07-02 22:40

so you think every tournament organiser must pay the csppa 165k, but there is no contract? wtf is this logic

2020-07-01 23:54

no, but from the article it doesnt seem like the issues flashpoint are complaining about where breaches of that contract

2020-07-02 07:30

trashpoint ecks dee

I can feel thorin malding already

26 replies

Why would he be malding? He's probably happy flashpoint arent paying, he's been plenty critical of csppa

20 replies

It's just shitty of Flashpoint lol, Thorin and his league got caught red handed.

2020-07-01 20:20

19 replies

How is Flashpoint the one being shitty here, I bet you didn't even read the article lmao

2020-07-01 20:24

7 replies

They're required to do so. A company not following the law according to the csppa is pretty shitty lol

2020-07-01 20:25

6 replies

Okay but that doesn't make Flashpoint shitty, that makes them bitter over the CSPPA being shitty.

2020-07-01 20:28

Bitch please CSPPA is just a bunch of jerks playing in their little playground thinking they are changing the world.

2020-07-01 20:31

CSPPA broke the contracts on multiple situations and also made Flashpoint lose a partner and a sponsor. How is Flashpoint the bad guy here? The only good part from CSPPA here is the statement from EliGE

2020-07-02 00:14

How did they break the contract specifically? That they made them lose a sponsor, is flashpoints statement, not really an objective party, as is the CSPPA.

2020-07-02 06:39

Loool look at this retard XD literally just wanted to try and spin it as if Flashpoint were the ones losing out because he doesn't like Thorin and he didn't even read the article wow gj

2020-07-02 09:15

Astralis flair and danish flag, what can you expect

2020-07-02 13:07

Caught doing what? Not paying money that they openly sent a letter saying they weren't going to do?

If you sign a contract, sometimes youre obliged to pay the fee in the contract no matter if they like to answer your "potential sponsorship mails" or not.

2020-07-01 20:32

if they have a contract between them, and csppa dont fulfill their obligations, why the fuck should flashpoint still just give them the money, when they believe the csppa made them lose money

2020-07-01 23:56

But what obligations werent filled?

They're stated in the article that you didn't read.

2020-07-02 09:16

No.. Thats not the contractual obligations. Thats the things Flashpoint are unhappy about in regards to their collaborations. But you can try again if you really have an idea about what obligations that were contractually obliged, but yet not fulfilled.

2020-07-02 14:11

you think they signed a contract which only said "give csppa 165k for nothing in return"?

2020-07-03 12:38

No, do you think they signed a contract that says, you have to force your members to test our monitors and handle shipping and be liable for damage on the monitors? Obviously, the contract stipulates certain terms, but since neither you or i know what it is, why be sure they arent fulfilled?

2020-07-03 18:49

flashpoint obviously believe the csppa havent fulfilled their obligations

2020-07-04 01:20

And CSPPA obviously believe they have, so where do that leave us?

2020-07-04 15:05

waiting for them to resolve it. cant be sure who is in the right and wrong at the moment. personally i believe flashpoint

2020-07-04 18:01

Dude they are pretty much admitting that what flashpoint is accusing them of is true dude

2020-07-01 20:22

they should pay the money and then sue csppa for 1 million. these greedy cunts caused a massive loss of money for flashpoint. (not that i'd care)

2020-07-01 20:44

as far as I can tell from the article, the CSPAA didn't have any obligation towards flashpoint, though flashpoint seems to think so. I'd be inclined to err on the side of CSPAA, considering how messy flashpoints tournament seemed to be.

2020-07-01 20:57

no they didn't? they said all their accusations were "baseless"

2020-07-01 20:53

Yes

2020-07-02 01:22

yikes

trashpoint

2020-07-01 20:18

Oof

Trashpoint xaxaxaxaxa

TRASHPOINT AHAHHAHAHAAA HAHAAHAHHAHAHA

Just pay your bills and quit 🤡 point

hahahahahaahhahaha

2020-07-01 20:21

Man, CSPPA pls disband

this is big yikes for Flashpoint. holy shit they're unfortunate af.

All I see is blame for nothing. If they told heroic players should go for more money that is absolutely okay. You are not a slave. And that they had the right to ask is shown by flashpoint cuz they cry about it.

2020-07-02 09:11

They're clearly losing a shit ton of money but they don't know when to quit

2020-07-01 20:23

Yeah, tier 1 prize pool for tier 3 teams and one or two tier 2 teams. And they still fucking wonder why they don't have enough sponsors, if they aren't struggling for sponsors, they won't have to take the "Event minimum standards" monitors, also csppa is useless and just an added hurdle to pile of problems that already exists

good CSPPA is USELESS shit

2020-07-01 20:29

failpoint xd

csppa is a complete joke, they do more harm than good, just fuck off and disband plz

Great inside info, thanks!

CSPPA are the laziest retards in the scene. Its pretty known they dont give a shit and just shit around a table smelling their own farts

Yeah, it's like they just want every fucking shit to be under their control but they wouldn't even control it, what's the point then, if the csppa ever wants to be a real thing, they need to start taking this shit seriously, solve matters in a timely manner, don't just take on every responsibilities out there and not do shit.

2020-07-02 09:21

CSPPA is the best thing to ever happen to cs.

players association is a useful as a decoy

2020-07-01 20:26

You can use decoy to fake flashes, also to fake ecos by dropping your gun and throwing a decoy.. They are pretty useful if used correctly.

2020-07-01 20:39

TLDR?

CSPPA doesn't do sh*t. Flashpoint getting fined.

2020-07-01 20:43

nice TLDR

2020-07-01 21:59

2020-07-01 22:01

fla'$'hpoint

expected from Tier 5 scam event

2020-07-01 20:35

Oh, hey Jw, how r u doin?

xDDDDDDDDDD

Lulpoint

This CSPPA is as useless as it gets. I'm not sure if they have done anything to players or they just act like some sort of shadow org that is run by some well-known players who seem to be interested in their own interests. They are representing the players but most of decisions/deals they made are somehow never published by themselves but by some journalist. Lacking of transparency is alarming.

2020-07-01 20:49

The lacking of transparency is basically proof that they don't do shit

2020-07-02 09:23

2020-07-01 20:45

Why would the CSPPA make a ranking system though? I don't think they're the ones that need to make that happen. Maybe all the TOs gather up and create it idk

FLASHPOINT first season and already such a fail. Not looking like it's going to be good in the future.

2020-07-01 20:50

lmfao flashpoint actually tried to make their failed production and tech pauses about players showing up late? Also them claiming that the Heroic and FPX deal failed cause of CSPPA is dumb, everyone knows that went to shit the second Astralis signed es3tag. It's like they try to blame everyone else for anything that went wrong for them.

2020-07-01 20:51

both Flashpoint and the CSPPA are absolute garbage

can somebody explain in short?

Flashpoint wanted players to play with a monitor brand so they get sponsor money. Players did notp lay with these monitors, so now they will get paid less money because sponsor deal was canceled. That's why FP refuses to pay

2020-07-01 21:19

bet it was benQ

I'm on the flashpoint side here. csppa has been showing the signs of impotence since day one. however, I don't understand why doesn't flashpoint just pay what they owe and then make a public statement about csppa.

Flashpoint is dead

2020-07-01 22:30

TrashThoorin

2020-07-01 22:49

I really don’t like how Flashpoint is being treated in the community. I watched it every week and was really impressed by how well made it was even going into online. Sure it’s not Pro League, but it carved its own niche by showcasing rising stars along with some familiar faces to give everyone something to enjoy in the season. It was the genesis of Mad Lion’s rise to tier 1, Cloud9 made a lot of noise, this was a really fun league and I wish more teams would’ve joined, namely OG and BIG. I really hate how they’re trying to fuck Faceit over, this is a good league man.

2020-07-01 23:03

What??

2020-07-02 00:13

Flashpoint for sure "leaked" themselves this letter to Dekay. CSPPA will prob have to end up suing Flashpoint to receive that money.

2020-07-02 00:34

CSPPA is rats

2020-07-02 00:42

Flashpoint is a good league. The CSPPA is actually fucking useless and basically is just an extension of ESL and they don't speak out against literally anything useful, ever. They are the most useless and inactive player association i've ever seen I want both ESL and Flashpoint to be successful, competition is good. The CSPAA is corrupt

2020-07-02 03:51

2020-07-02 08:45

Duncan ‘Conflict of Interest’ Shields

2020-07-02 03:57

Jokepoint

2020-07-02 07:57

The CSPPA is an utter fucking joke they literally don;t give a shit about cs players and ask for more andmore money they're like the UN

2020-07-02 09:12

Player union that only cares for the T1 teams. fucking lol

2020-07-02 10:36

So it sounds to me like Flashpoint will have to pay that money. If they have an issue with a supposed delay causing a loss of sponsorship, I would imagine they need to address that separately as it's completely unrelated. On the point of agency, the CSPPA clearly admitted to giving advice to the players, that's not the same as negotiating on a players behalf though. I'm not saying they didn't, although they claim they didn't, it's an interesting situation ;-) Both orgs sound like the kind of people you want to watch your back around, keep everything on record.

2020-07-02 16:39

no point in CSPPA if you have many different leagues, ESL/DH, Blast, FLashpoint etc. If you have to negotiate deals separately with all the orgs then it's fucking pointless to have an union and there will be a strong bias towards one or another in the current landscape. That is ESL.

2020-07-02 20:16

And their leader is fucked up, screwing up negotiations all the time so they fall apart, and every time he steps aside the deals goes through.

2020-07-03 14:14

CSPPA is gonna be crazy with the man in charge of it, personally I would not use their services as long as Mads Øland has something to do with them. Every deal between Danish football player and DBU has been blocked over and over agian by Mads, as soon as he have stepped away from the negotiations the deal have gone though.

2020-07-03 14:09