draken: "If I would have stayed in CS, I would maybe be on the same ego trip that I was on"

The Swedish AWPer goes in depth in this tell-all interview about his career, from breaking out with Epsilon, his experiences in NIP and fnatic, to his VALORANT move and return to CS:GO.

William "⁠draken⁠" Sundin made his return to CS:GO at the beginning of 2022 after rekindling his passion for the king of shooters once again in late 2021. At the age of 26, it's a now or never situation for the Swede, who once had the chance to establish himself as a stalwart AWPer among his country's top teams but in the end didn't stick around for long despite having the talent and numbers to back him.

The Swede, who made a name for himself as the backbone of the Epsilon squad that became the poster children for Valve's Minor system in early 2016, and was known for both his incredible flicks and easy misses — which draken himself says was blown out of proportion with the 30° window meme —, was one of the first players to break through Sweden's old guard, finding his place in the legendary Swedish rosters that dominated the early days of CS:GO, albeit past their apogee.

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Epsilon's Ascent

But in a time of decline and uncertainty in a country with a rich history of dominating Counter-Strike, his cocky attitude and bad boy persona landed him in a tough predicament, trying to grind his way back up through the ranks or moving to Riot's new shooter. Now, after a time in VALORANT, draken is back with a much more calm and mature voice, as well as a clear understanding of both the mistakes made in the early days of his career and what he needs to succeed in his journey back to the top.

Let's start going all of the way back to your beginnings in Counter-Strike. When did you start playing?

I started playing CS:Source. I remember playing with twist when I was like 12-years-old, maybe. We played for like two years. Back then it was just for fun, we would play on R60, if you know the page. It was like FACEIT, but from back in the day. I played there a lot and had some school tournaments in 1.6. I wasn't very good at it but my team won because there weren't talented people at my school. So I went from Source to playing a MOBA game, Heroes of Newerth, which was basically a replica of DOTA. I played it for two or three years and I was a semi-pro, but I was so young, you know? But I had a talent for it, I had some good heroes and I remember that we stomped n0tail from OG when he was playing with fnatic back then. Maybe I'm going a bit off the rails, but it was fun.

Then I got caught up with school and wanted to explore myself as a person and human being when I was around 16 or 17, so I didn't play any games. My dad was always working in the music industry, so I was interested in that. I saw something in the music industry and I kind of lost my passion to play, but then when CS:GO came out I started to play again. In 2014, I think, and I just remember that I had so many people from when I was playing Source, like twist and other semi-professionals that I played with, so I really wanted to get back into CS. From there I created a mix team, the CG lineup. We qualified for the Minor after beating HellRaisers. That's when I made a name for myself and knew I could become a professional and be successful in the game.

How did the CG team come together?

We always played FACEIT back in the day, every single night. We had a stack with chrille, me, mOkEn, freddieb, disco doplan, and some other players. We were always super tryhard and played for the highest rating on FACEIT. Eventually, we felt like 'OK, some small tournaments are coming up, we want to play and see how far we can go.' I had a feeling that we could make it, but it was so surprising for us, at least when we qualified for the Minor, because HellRaisers back then was a very good team with oskar, ANGE1 and those guys, so it was amazing to qualify. But getting back to the Swedish teams, I always tried to get into some teams — even international teams — when I was unknown, and no one really wanted to give me a chance. I had to make my own team.

What was it like for you to get the attention you got from qualifying for a Minor, which was actually the first ever Minor?

That was honestly so satisfying to qualify for something like that because until then we were only attending some small Swedish LANs with like $2,000 for the winner, it was very small back then. At the Minor we had good results, we were so close to making the playoffs. We had a close game, it was against the Germans, tabseN and them. [Editor's note: The team was PENTA]. For me it was heartbreaking, I'm an emotional player and I always set high goals for myself so it was devastating, but at the same time after a couple of days it felt really good and we got a spotlight on us. After that Epsilon reached out to us, it wasn't a good deal at all, but for me to just be able to... I was working back then, I was working as a salesman making cold calls and it was horrible, but as soon as I made like 500€ a month I told my parents that I was going to try this out.

My parents didn't really fully support me, but as soon as my salary went up a bit and they noticed that I'm earning a little bit of money, they kind of accepted it. My mother had even thought that I was dealing drugs at some point because I was also very good at betting on esports before I became a professional. Once I earned like $4,000 in one day in the CSGOLounge days. But yeah, that whole thing with Epsilon was the starting point. We were an international lineup, three Swedes, the Danish guy, rezex, and zehN, but after the Minor we felt like the language barrier was a bit hard and we wanted to go full Swedish, so we brought in disco doplan and freddieb.

Back then it was always kind of about me and doplan, because REZ wasn't the superstar back then, me and doplan had the most eyes on us, and it was kind of clear to us that if NIP or fnatic would ask us, it would be a no-brainer. Eventually doplan was asked to join fnatic for the second Minor and we got kind of fucked, we had to bring kalle in for that, the Norwegian guy. We basically made a phone call the day before we were going to play asking if he could go to Bucharest because doplan was going to fnatic. The rest is history. We did OK, we should have beaten GODSENT, we had a 13-2 lead on Mirage and we fucking threw it, but yeah, whatever. Then I remember getting a call from HeatoN to discuss joining NIP.

You played with BARBARR for a while in Epsilon, and he was your coach later on. How was the relationship with him?

He has always been like a big brother to me. I remember when we met at Copenhagen Games and started talking, we always had a good and fun relationship. Maybe sometimes we could clash a little bit because if you're such good friends with someone it's kind of hard to work when it gets hectic, but in general me and him have a very good relationship and we talk to this day, even after he was the coach in my VALORANT squad. I've had a long relationship with him and I also think he's grown a lot as a human and as a coach, it's all love for that guy.

What were your early mentors or relationships in CS when you were starting to break out professionally?

Honestly, I didn't have a specific mentor, I was always taking small bits and pieces from everyone. I don't think we got a lot of support. Personally, I want to say I kind of did it myself, I didn't have someone who mentored me that way until... I guess in Epsilon I had chrille and BARBARR, they were trying to really help me with my anger issues and not getting tilted when I felt like I wasn't playing great — so I'd say those two guys. Then obviously THREAT was very nice to have as a coach and the players in NIP, as well.

I want to say that f0rest was probably the best teammate I've ever had. He's just a reasonable, calm and nice guy to play with. So I would say BARBARR, Chrille, f0rest, and I also want to mention Xizt. Xizt and f0rest were probably the best guys to play with and I want to say that I regret when we swapped Xizt for dennis. I think that was our breaking point, at least during my time in NIP.

Coming into a struggling team that didn't have a proper AWPer and that had been cycling through a few different fifth players, what was it like being the new young guy joining such an esteemed team?

I was very confident in myself, I knew that I was better than all of the players they recently had, at least Maikelele, pyth and allu. I felt like my level was at least as good as theirs, if not better, so I was very confident and I knew that this was my shot. I worked really hard in the beginning and I was so happy to be in that NIP team because it's such a big name. I wasn't really nervous, I remember the first practice, when I got into TeamSpeak, it was just good vibes and I started performing instantly.

They always had kind of good results, so for me it was so easy to come into that team. They had been playing so long and the team I was in before them, Epsilon, we were good but didn't have any experience back then, right? We had rounds that were either full rush, go together and destroy the site, or we just played like if it was FACEIT, pick and pick and pick — free for all Zlatan rounds.

You say f0rest is a guy you really enjoyed playing with, but what about the rest of the team? How were you taken in? Was it easy to adapt to the team dynamics?

Yeah, it was very easy for me because they also knew how to play with an AWPer and THREAT had a very good idea because I think it was him who said, 'OK, we need this guy to get to the next level,' and that's why they swapped me for pyth. It was always just a good and easy vibe, right? With them it was always fun, they never really tilted or made comments about me, even if I did something wrong they were just like 'nice try, nice try, you’ll get them next time.'

So for me, being a bit of a controversial guy... You know, I always speak what's on my mind, or at least I did before, and I had a bit of a harsh vibe. But with them I kind of felt like it was a new team for me, there were new possibilities. I came in on a clean slate and that was really good. I felt super confident and comfortable.

You talk about this image of being strong minded, which from the outside I think it has been seen as arrogant at times.

Yeah.

Where do these character traits come from and how has that affected your time in different teams?

I think it has to do with who my friends were when I was growing up, we were always saying what was on our mind and making jokes, and maybe the jokes were harsh at times. So coming into CS I felt like I was a bit of a special guy for people to play with because I often speak what's on my mind. If I don't like something, I'm going to say it. If I do like something, I'm going to say it. And I had very high expectations for myself. That's just who I was when I was a bit younger, and obviously when you grow a bit you tend to see how life really is and it's not a one man show all of the time. Everyone has to be comfortable and work as a unit, being comfortable together is when you play the best CS. I would say I'm still the same guy, but at least I've learned to control my emotions better.

We've seen this growth in many players, right? Notably a guy like s1mple, who was known as a hard guy to play with early in his career, but you see him now and he is much more mature and settled. In your case, do you think it caused problems in NIP and fnatic?

Yeah, definitely. I think that in the beginning I didn't really show it as much, but eventually when you get comfortable and a couple of months go by, when we weren't getting the results that I felt we should be getting, of course I would speak up about it. Me and dennis clashed. We brought him in as the in-game leader, so obviously he had a lot of power in the team back then, and I think I fucked up by putting him on my bad side. After that I want to say that he was the one who kind of kicked me from the team, getting f0rest on his side. I remember that after a StarLadder event we had a huge argument and maybe I was being a bit cocky on Twitter, calling out people, and just doing what I do.

I think I have this kind of good humor, as well, so sometimes I want to put it out there, and I think that many people, especially teammates, can take offense to that and be like 'OK, what does he mean by this? Who does he think he is?' So maybe after an event I'm being vocal and speaking my mind, but I don't think people really want to play with that type of player when things aren't going well, so I think that I fucked up a bit there. And the thing with dennis got me kicked, I want to say.

In fnatic I don't think it was really my personality, I was playing really bad. I wasn't comfortable playing with those guys at all and didn't really feel like a part of the group. It was KRIMZ, JW and flusha, so I always felt a bit off and wasn't as comfortable as I was in NIP.

So things went south for you when dennis came into NIP?

Yeah, that's when the whole ship crashed because we played very bad, he was the in-game leader and he wanted to swap things up all of the time. And then he wanted to be an entry fragger and have GeT_RiGhT lead, so it was just a whole shit show, and when it got to that point I was very vocal about it, right? I wanted to solve it, but at the same time I made enemies. I should have just kept my head down and focused on my career and being a good teammate instead of trying to solve everything because it wasn't my role back then and maybe people got a bit bothered by it.

You were known to be an aggressive AWPer, but there were talks towards the end about you becoming a more passive AWPer to fit more into the team. Were there clashes on that front, over your role and the positions you had to take within the team structure?

I guess a little bit, but at the same time we didn't really have any structure, we didn't have an in-game leader, so it was very, very weird. We didn't have any structure at all, but I remember an interview in which REZ said something like, ‘We want to make draken more supportive’ [Editor's note: the quote is ‘We want to play a way where draken is more supportive, static’], and I think I took it the wrong way. Back then I wanted to be the showstopper, I wanted to open rounds, open rounds, open rounds. But now when you look at it, I've been watching a lot of sh1ro, syrsoN, Jame and device demos, all new style AWPers that are very passive and very reassuring, players that stay alive longer, which benefits the team more than getting a pick and then dying.

So now I've been trying to take more of this broky-style role in which you're not looking for opening kills that much, you can take it if you have a good spawn, but in today's CS I really feel like late round scenarios are where the AWP shines because people are so aware of how you need to block an AWPer off, flash an AWPer off, take control without really showing yourself on the map, and I think that it's in those scenarios in which the AWPer can get those easy frags these days, which is something I've been taking into consideration. Back then I think I took it a bit wrong and just pancaked after that.

And you joined fnatic pretty soon after NIP.

Yeah, it was like two weeks later.

How was that change for you, because it was a pretty different atmosphere. You went from the beloved NIP to the bad boys of fnatic. They had a bit more of a reputation, so how was that change in cultures?

The culture was totally different. I don't want to blame other players or anything like that, but in general, and I think you can see it from an outside perspective as well, if you compare NIP to fnatic, the tilt factor was much higher on fnatic's side. I didn't really feel comfortable playing with these guys because as soon as they started to tilt… You know how it is, it was like a chain reaction. For me, as a player that had troubles with that before, when I'm trying to do good but another teammate is tilting, I tend to fall in those tracks as well, right? Which you do as a human, that's how we work, it’s something you just have to train away.

In general it was very different because flusha had some family problems and we had one event with the full lineup, and it was OK, but after that we picked up ScreaM as a stand-in for New York and I had a very bad event there. Then I got kicked, so it was like one event with the full lineup and one with a stand-in and after that I got benched. My biggest regret, which now I don't see as a regret, since I feel like it has been good for my journey and for me to grow as a human and a player, but back then I really felt like I fucked up by leaving the NIP bench and just jumping into fnatic right away, I needed a break. I jumped on the horse too fast again because I didn't have the same passion as when I started playing for NIP.

With fnatic it was more like 'OK, I'm going to show everyone that by joining fnatic I'm back and fuck anyone who says I'm done.' For new players who may read this, take your time and don't stress into a lineup just because it looks good. You never know. Just be sure of which team you join next and how much you want to commit, as well, because I didn't have the mental energy to just jump into a new team and go full tryhard again. I couldn't know that it was going to be very uncomfortable to play in that team back then, but when you see everything after the fact it becomes very clear.

Right when you joined fnatic you sent NIP a message, tweeting something along the lines of the fnatic guys being more skilled, so at first it seemed you were quite excited about how good your teammates were. Later, when things didn’t pan out, there was a leaked audio in which Jumpy was heard saying that you didn't seem very focused and weren't a good pickup. So what was it that made it all fall apart?

I didn't really fit into the core, it was also hard to play with JW because he had been such an amazing AWPer back in the day so there was a lot of pressure, I put a lot of pressure on myself and I want to say that I was suffering a bit from fatigue. At this point I had been playing like four years in a row without taking a break, so I just felt like I didn't have the passion or energy that I could have had and with the core of JW, flusha and KRIMZ being so tight it was hard for me to feel comfortable and be eager to work really hard. It was bad timing for me to join fnatic and I didn't really have the will to play a lot of CS back then.

Looking back on this now, having a chance to play with NIP and then fnatic, that was your big moment to break through and establish yourself at the top. Do you think it was a missed opportunity to become a player that is always on a big team, playing Big Events and so on?

Yeah, for sure. I had a lot of regrets about not doing well in fnatic because if I did well it would have established me as a top player and instead of that, with the bad reputation I had and me being a bit vocal with my Twitter fingers... I know the fnatic guys didn't really like that because they had this bad reputation and when I came I wanted to join that bad reputation, you know what I mean? I wanted to glow in it and make it something good, but they didn't want that and it also kind of fucked up our chemistry in the team.

But as you were saying, establishing my skill in fnatic, I think would have made my name so that it would always be in the top tier. After getting benched I was hungry for revenge to get my name back out there with Red Reserve and Uruguay. I talked to Hicham from NIP and I remember him saying 'don't go to a tier 2-3 team right now because then I'm afraid that your career will end up like the other Swedish guys that have been trying to make it back up.' Like with doplan, who went from fnatic to tier 2 and was never able to make it back again.

That's kind of what sucks, I was NIP's best player and when I joined fnatic I had a really bad time and all it takes is for that one bad performance in a top tier team and everyone can forget about you and say you're washed up. That kind of sucks, but at the same time I try to use it as fuel for my motivation and today I can say that all of these small failures make me who I am and they make me really want to push myself to the limit now so that I can show that I can really make it again.

Looking back, what do you think hampered you more, your personality and reputation or the struggle to perform in fnatic?

I think that in NIP it wasn't performance related, it was about how I was as a person. I think I got everything gifted a bit too early. I've always been kind of a cocky guy, in school as well, I was always making trouble, so when everything kind of came to me too early I felt like I was on top of the world and like I didn't have to go any further to prove myself. I think that's also where I lost it. I didn't work as hard as I could have. I could have played a lot more CS, put more hours in deathmatch, focused on being a better teammate. Back then I was also more selfish in a team environment than I am today, so yeah...

You were talking about your hunger coming back in Red Reserve and Uruguay.

One regret I have is not taking a break to figure out that I needed to make a change going into my next team. At least that's how I felt going into fnatic. After that I always felt hungry again, like when we were playing with Red Reserve, but at the same time I wasn't the best teammate back then, either. I know that if I would have taken better care of myself, my sleeping schedule, focusing more on CS and on being a better team player, it would have been a lot smoother and easier.

You then went back to NIP for a second stint as a stand-in, but there was some sort of miscommunication because you thought it was a try out and that you'd stay on the team for a while since they gave you a ten month contract, but in the end you only played two events. What happened there?

Yeah, we were making the Uruguay team, it was me, ScreaM, Ex6TenZ, hampus and HS. It was going well and I remember I got a message from pita who wanted to bring me back to NIP. He told me they needed a stand-in for a few events, and he named all of the events. It was like five events and probably a sixth one, so what I understood was that I was going to play all of those events. I was very excited about it and I remember my dad was working a bit as an agent for me, so he talked to Hicham and got the contract sorted out. I remember my dad said ‘OK, you have a contract for 10 months,’ and for me that was the chance to make it again. So I left the team I had with ScreaM and those guys and joined back up with NIP.

I really thought, going into it, that I would be there for at least five events, but I think that dennis got really scared of me taking his spot and decided to come back after only two events. He had filed medical leave for burnout, and when you file for that you're not back in two weeks, so that's what really pissed me off with the NIP staff for not handling it better and saying that he had to be away and take his time off, right? That's when the twitlonger came, I was just super mad and wanted to create chaos. It sucked. If I would have been smart back then, I would have said 'OK, this is my time to take a break.' I still had a contract for a couple of months, so I could have chilled. I knew that NIP wasn't playing well, so maybe in a couple weeks or months they would have asked me to play with them again, but instead of that I got really angry and I bashed both pita and Hicham on Twitter. Since then we all talked about it and have come to the understanding that it was miscommunication and we all said our sorries, so it is what it is.

But at the time I went to Ancient to create a team with BARBARR, freddieb, doplan, me, Plopski and RuStY. It was a good team on paper and we did some damage, we finished second at a DreamHack Open Summer, and after the final I remember we had a talk about Plopski going to NIP. He was super sad about it, although I understood his position and would have done the same as him, but at the same time it sucked the life out of me. From there we had to pick up a new player for the Minor, it didn't go so well and I'm not really sure but I want to say that we just split after that.

It seemed at the time as if you took it very personally that NIP poached the star player in your new team right after your misunderstanding with the organization.

Definitely, they should have managed it better. If you looked at it on paper they had guys like GeT_RiGhT and dennis who were legends of the game, amazing players, but at the same time, why didn't they want to focus on the new talents, right? For me, I was probably the best talent back then, at least in Sweden as an AWPer, and when they went back to the old and thought it would work it was just so... disrespectful. And so bad for business, as well, because they didn't even win a tournament since IEM Oakland until device joined. So yeah, there was a lot there bubbling, and I was also angry at myself for not being more cautious and smarter in the decision of making a new team instead of maybe sitting on the bench, these small things all kind of added up.

REZ made it and kind of held on, Plopski and Brollan then appeared, it took hampus a while and finally now he seems to also be making his place at the top. But out of your generation, before academy teams and all of the things that have happened in the past couple of years, it seems like there were some players that failed to make it to the top even though it seemed like they were going in that direction.

Yeah, I think it's in general, not just Sweden, a player like EspiranTo as well, who is a very talented guy. Maybe he had some of the issues that I had or have been dealing with, I don't know really, I'm just making some assumptions, but you know you have to be very level headed and stay in line. If you want to get to the top, and even if you get to the top, you have to keep working even harder because there's always someone ready to take your spot, so if you're not putting in the hours or being the best teammate you can be there's going to be a ticking clock on your head.

Do you think your generation had it particularly hard to make it through? Because there was not much structure back then. Now you can now make it with a tier 2 team, or even through academy teams that are giving players a chance at playing in the first team. But before young guys were plucked out and plugged into a team, a lot of times in new roles and positions, and when it didn't work after a couple of months they were thrown out and the veterans would then just get a new guy and try it all over again, burning through quite a few young talents.

Most definitely. That's what I think as well with the old guard, I don't really think I'm the type of guy to fit in with older players. I have a very young mind, I say a lot of shit, I say bad words, so I think it's been really hard to get up to that level. It may have been easier in Sweden because we have these big names like NIP and fnatic. France had that as well, some countries that have big orgs. But if you weren’t in a country with a big org it was almost impossible to make it to the top tier without being a super talent, playing FPL and showing that you have the skill, right?

So I do think it was very hard back then and I think it's very cool to see the academy leagues and the players that has produced like torzsi, m0NESY, even this headtr1ck guy that stood in for NAVI at ESL Pro League. It's a good evolution, but I think that me and a lot of other players got a bit cursed by how everything was handled and how the old guard had so much influence and say in who was playing. I don't really think I should have been kicked from NIP because the old guard didn't want to put the energy in to play with me anymore, I think for them it was exhausting.

Players had a lot more say in the way things were, and now we're getting to a point in the professionalization of Counter-Strike in which the organizations have more of a say in the teams than the players, who before were basically running themselves, which is why there's so much more stability now.

Yeah, I agree with that. I think it is that way, but I don't think it should be completely one-sided though, there should be an open conversation with the players about who is giving troubles, or who you want to pick up, right? Because if it's only the staff making the calls then you would see… Like NIP, that has been playing with a stand-in for the past one or two years, rotating players all of the time.

Yeah, there has to be a balance, right? Because you can also create a bad atmosphere where players don't want to play with each other.

Yeah, but definitely I think it's great that someone else than the players has the last decision in who to kick and who to pick up because if not things can get really fucked up. I felt like I was a victim of this sort of stuff in both NIP and fnatic with the players deciding to kick me. It didn't feel good and I really think that if it came from a third person instead of players, you never know, I might still be playing in NIP.

This brings me to another thought, which is that if you look at a team like Gambit that came out of nowhere and grinded and grinded and grinded and made it… Do you think that would have been a viable option for Epsilon to have done this back in the day?

Most definitely, this is something I've talked about with freddieb, doplan, and even with REZ, as well, because imagine if we stayed together and brought in hampus or brollan back in the day. If we would have stayed together without joining the big names like NIP or fnatic we could have gone so fast past them. I remember when we were playing in Epsilon, the first time we played NIP on stage in Sweden, we were so close to beating them. And we were young back then, we didn't know anything! We didn't have the experience, we did stupid rounds and stupid shit. We just prevailed on our skill, so if we were to stay together back then and just keep it tight...

You look at Gambit and how well they are doing. Heroic, as well, they've been playing together so long and doing this stuff, I think there would have been a good possibility for us back then to do so. But at the same time, what do you do when these million dollar companies come and ask you to play for them, right? It's hard. But yeah, for sure, if you look back at it and didn't care about money, then it would have been the best choice, for sure.

That's the importance of Gambit, which I think is something people often overlook, they created a new blueprint of how to succeed as a team, which will now allow other teams, like you guys were back in the day, to now say 'hey, we can make it, we can be a Gambit and make it this way.' I think that's what's cool about them.

Yeah, I definitely think we could have made that leap, but it was so hard back then, right? It was so hard to get into tournaments and all you wanted to do was play the big tournaments, so when a team asked you to play and they were in big tournaments, it was like 'fuck yeah, I want to go!'

You then spent some time with Japaleno and GamerLegion, is there anything you really want to cover of that period or should we jump into your decision to give VALORANT a shot?

Yeah, it's not that interesting. I remember playing with the twins and tabz, but I didn't really believe in it. We were talking to GODSENT at the time, but I didn't feel like it was the right thing to do. It just wasn't the right fit of players. It didn't go as well as I hoped for and my passion to play at that point was at an all-time low.

I felt like I needed a break and to get away from CS. I wanted to play with hampus and joined GamerLegion, but it was the same as when I was in NIP, there was some history there. After that I took a long break and enjoyed life. I was thinking about what I wanted to do and then VALORANT came in the summer and I started to play the beta. It was something to do.

What was your life like during the break, what were the things you were doing and thinking about? What mindset were you in?

First of all I wanted to just not think about esports at all. I just really had a good time with friends, met a lot of new people. I just had a good time partying and relaxing. I was out on a trip with my family in Spain, so I just took time away from the computer, took the tension away from everything and didn't want to think about CS.

So living the life of a guy in his 20s.

Yeah, I was feeling good, meeting girls, it was fun. After that I think I just decided kind of fast that I didn't really have the passion to get back into CS again because I felt like I didn't have where to go. I could grind FPL, but I didn't really feel it because it's something I had already done before and I wanted to try something new. I was tired of everything that happened in CS, getting a player snatched, getting promised more tournaments than I ended up playing with NIP... I just wanted to get away from it a bit. Not because it's a bad game, but it was just the circumstances around it, my career and what everyone thought about me.

That seems like a common thread among a lot of players who were struggling with their CS careers. Players that had gone high and couldn't keep up that same level moved to VALORANT because it was something fresh, something new.

And it was easier to get a paycheck, as well. At least for me, with the name I had from CS it was easy to find a team to play with and you could really feel that you were ahead of a lot of players as well because the mechanics are so similar.

And you had the BARBARR connection there, right?

I actually brought him into the team, I reached out to Yacine because we played a lot together. They wanted to pick me up in the summer but I didn't really have the passion then. I remember we practiced one day and I was like, 'Yeah, sorry guys but I'm not going to be able to give you what you need, so I'm going to have to come back to you in two months and see if we can do something then.' I needed a long break, and I think it was also me realizing that I couldn't just jump into the next thing over and over again.

We had a very good team with two young guys, Yacine, me and an in-game leader. I learned a lot during that time because I got to play a different role than the main AWP star player role and I got to see how things really are when you're not up to frag all of the time. You have to make certain decisions and play a lot more for the team, which is something that I have brought with me now as well. You don't always have to frag to win rounds, you play for the team to win the rounds, so I would say my journey in VALORANT has been very valuable.

I think that if I would have stayed in CS I wouldn't be the same person I am today, I would maybe be on the same ego trip that I was on, so yeah, I think it was a very good move for me to get the passion back that I had for CS. I remember when I quit VALORANT and came back to CS, I played more PUGs on FACEIT than in the past four years. So my drive to succeed in CS is really back, I would say.

One thing I did want to touch on about your time in VALORANT, before we delve into your return, was if you thought your CS career was over at the time.

I actually always felt like I had unfinished business in CS. I always felt in the back of my mind that I was so good and I know my talent there, so I just felt like if that didn't work out, I was always going to be coming back to CS.

Were you good at VALORANT?

Yeah, we were very good, we were top 5 in Europe. We were always putting in big numbers and we were one game away from qualifying to [VALORANT Champions Tour] Iceland. We lost to Liquid, which sucked, but we were always a top contender in Europe. That felt good, as well, because there were many pros that moved over from CS and weren't really at the same level that we were on. There were so many teams that were around top 20, so for me to see that I was doing well there as well was a very satisfying feeling.

What happened at the end of your VALORANT career?

They benched three of us. We were five Swedish players and a Swedish coach and we had a very strong bond, but I think the organization got a bit... They wanted to kick one player, but as a unit we didn't really want that to happen because we were so close, so instead of kicking one player they benched three of us and decided to renew two of the best players, Leo and Sayf, who are both amazing guys and amazing talents. Both unfortunately banned in CS, which is why they went to VALORANT, although they're unbanned now so you never know, maybe they have a future as well.

They're young, right?

Yeah, Leo is like 18 and he's a super talent, he's so good.

We saw tucks come back, in Australia. He's a bit older, he's 25 now, but he had a VAC ban and it expired so he returned to CS. That's one thing I'm curious to see evolve with players that got banned years ago, moved to VALORANT, and are now no longer banned in CS.

We'll see what happens, but as long as they're safe and getting a paycheck they're going to stay there until the paycheck gets removed. I think they want to get back to CS, but they're not going to just make a leap of faith. And they're contracted, right? They can't really do it. But maybe in the future.

How about the game itself, did you think it was a good game?

I think it was a very good game, but I think CS is a better game. At the same time, you can get so punished in VALORANT in a way that you can't in CS because in CS you're more in control of your skill. In VALORANT a drone comes towards you and you get wallhacked, there's a pool you can get stuck in, beams shooting you through walls. You can get so destroyed by players who aren't really that good. The skill level is obviously higher in CS because the abilities are so unpredictable and there are so many more possibilities that could happen in certain scenarios. That's what I think was fun...

But also more random?

Yeah, exactly. It's a bit more random. It's a good game, I don't want to say anything bad about it, but my passion has always been for CS.

I could have gone and made easy money after GUILD, so it was ‘do I take offers from VALORANT teams that I could join, or do I go back to CS and go for my passion?’ Because unfortunately I'm getting kind of old, 26. Sure, it's not that old, but at the same time I felt like it's now or never.

So let's jump into the switch back to CS. You were out of GUILD in October after which you started streaming PUGs, then in November you tweeted "passion over money," and by January you were back with Savage. How were those months and what was the progress you made?

At the end of my time in VALORANT I was already wondering how far could I get if I went back to CS because I knew my skill and I just wanted to see and prove everyone wrong, and prove to myself that I am a tier 1 player and that I can be that and stay on that level. So I said, 'OK, I'm going to stream a lot and see what happens.'

Devilwalk and I have the same agent, so we were talking a lot about creating a new Swedish lineup and having young talents from Sweden. We had a couple of names in mind and talked about a lot of different things, but that was a project that was going to happen in 2022. I also have a big thing going on in Sweden, called Space Stockholm, a new internet café, which I'm involved in with my dad. It's a big facility that just opened with three floors, one floor being 20+ so you can have drinks and order food to the computer. There's a big arena, as well.

Anyways, I was talking to Devilwalk about creating a team and building an organization maybe with the Space Stockholm internet café. That's something that's currently developing, we're trying to find someone who can lead the organization.

So you want to get the Savage lineup into the Space Stockholm organization?

Exactly, that's what me and Devilwalk talked about back in December, but it's a long term project, it won't happen in a day, so then Savage asked me to join and we talked about maybe bringing in grux and chawzyyy, who went to Apeks. But yeah, the timeframe for the organization we wanted to create didn't work out. So I said yes to Savage, it went OK the first weeks, but it was hard in the RMR qualifiers. It's a hard qualifier, and it didn't really go our way. Then Finest picked up twist and PlesseN, who joined them because they've been without a salary for a long time, so we all understood them and respected their decision.

You were close to breaking the top 30 at first, it seemed like there was some direction, but then the roster changes happened. Was it a bit of a blow to lose PlesseN and twist?

Yeah, of course, but at the same time it gives you new opportunities as well. While it's unfortunate, I always try to see what we can make out of it. How can we make this even better? So after that we talked to Golden, who is very motivated and I really like his leadership. He's very passionate about everything. He told us he wanted to bring in TENZKI, who's Danish, but he was like 'don't worry, it'll go well, we need this guy.' After playing with him I think that we have a very good mix, TENZKI is this experienced guy that is put in a semi-aggressive lurk position. Golden as in-game leader, I'm AWPing, grux has the aim to become a star rifler, and dezon who is a very good supportive clutch player, like Perfecto.

Devilwalk is a very important piece for this project. A very well rounded coach on both the strategic side of the game and also also for the hype and pushing us forward, so we have good roles and structure on the team. Of course it sucks that PlesseN and twist left, but at the same time you have to look for new opportunities and I'm happy with what has come out of everything.

It seems though that it has been a tough start, like you're struggling in the mud a bit. What's it like having to be fighting there with teams in similar situations?

I want to say it's very difficult with a new team to play in a certain way, or for us at least, we are very keen on Maik's leadership and we want to play a certain way. We've been practicing this a lot, and we're not super good at adapting to the other opponents, but that's something we've learned from these last officials because we lost to 00Prospects and that obviously stinks. But at the same time I can really feel the process of us getting better each and every day.

We talk a lot about everything, about our losses, and I think that they can make or break everything, so it's very important for us to just keep our head up and move on because there's a lot of hard competition and everyone can play CS these days. You just have to find the ability to play with each other. I think that the main reason we struggled in our officials was because we didn't really know each other and we've now spent a lot more hours than we had for our first games, so I'll be really shocked if we're not winning our next games coming up because I feel like we've been making huge progress.

What are the goals now? When you came back to CS and where you're at now on your journey.

I wasn't really expecting to get into the top 30 or 20 for the first months, it's a work in progress and we just have to trust the process. I also think that I can use a couple of months more to get into my peak performance. I did expect us to win against the opponents we've already played and didn't beat [00Prospects and Into The Breach at the time of the interview], but for me now... Anyone would say to be top 1, but you have to be a bit more realistic coming back from a break and creating a new team, so I want to break the top 20. I think that can be a good goal to have, that's kind of where we're at. And I want to qualify for a LAN tournament as well because I haven't been to a LAN in a while, I think since GamerLegion when I was a stand-in in like 2019. It was a long time ago! So I want to go to a LAN and get to the top 20 around the summer.

How long are you willing to go on with this if things don't go as hoped?

I'm willing to go as far as I can play at the level I know I can reach. I see these players like roeJ, older guys that are playing and still performing, and I just feel like it's a mindset. I don't think anyone is too old to play, you just need to have the mindset and the talent and you're good, and I think I have both of those right now. So as far as I'm concerned, I think I can play until I'm 30. So I'll keep trying and I'm going to try and establish the level I once had.

And as a team, how long do you think it'll be sustainable if you don't get results?

With this team, specifically? I want to say that I'd see the year out, I want to give it the full year. If we're not seeing the progress in a year, or seeing that we can do damage and contend some tier 1 teams and at least tier 2s, then it'll be hard to continue, but if we see that we can do that I'm definitely going to give it at least a year.

When you look at the team on paper, you have an experienced IGL in Golden, yourself coming back from a time in VALORANT, TENZKI who has been outside of top teams for quite a while, and two guys that are less experienced but not that young. Do you think there's enough tools in the team to break out against the top tier?

Yeah, I think so. It's hard to answer this question in any other way because you look at other teams and maybe you have one young guy, but you still have a lot of age in certain teams, as well. Like I said before, if you have the talent and the mindset, I don't think it's a problem, I think you can go all the way. You just have to work well as a team, talk about everything — the boring classic ass stuff —, and of course it can be better if you have a young guy that can be taught and has this young hunger, but we don't have that right now and I think we can still make it.

You had a bit of a reputation as a hot or cold player at times, there was the 30 degree thing, but also maybe more importantly being a player that can tilt and get unfocused. Is that something you agree with, or has it been overblown?

I think it has been a bit overblown with me missing the easy shots and hitting the hard ones. I want to say that it's because I've hit such crazy shots that when I miss the easy ones it just looks horrible by comparison. Everyone can get tilted, everyone can lose their focus, and this is something that I've been working on. Especially when I was in NIP, that's where I learned the most about focusing on the next round and not caring about what people think, because they're just there to try and drag you down. If you listen to them, you're done.

You can't be a guy who is who he is because of what other people think of him, if you're that type of player you won't succeed. That's something I've been working on hard. You see all of these negative comments saying you're a tilter or whatever, if you have a bad game and you feel this tilt coming and start to be angry at yourself, then you're basically letting them win. So I try to just focus on myself, on the next round, and not care about what anybody thinks. It's hard to untilt yourself, but if you get a frag the next round you're pretty much reset, so I just need a frag and I'm good. [laughs]

You said you're not that young anymore and CS careers don't last forever. How has that refocused the state you're in and the goals you have for yourself?

That has definitely made me more careful and more aware of myself as well and how I live my life. How I do things, in general, because you don't have this forever so I really try to make the best of it now. In my early years I didn't really take care of myself so well, so it's like what I said before, it's now or never. If I don't try and take care of myself now to make the most out of everything, I'm going to regret it so much in the future.

Taking care of myself is the least I can do to play this game with all of the competition out there, there's always someone out there trying harder than you and that made me realize that I sometimes have to try harder. I got to a point in which I became lazy, I thought I had done what I had to do to stay at the level without realizing that I have to keep pushing, keep working, keep taking care of myself, with age I've become less lazy and more motivated to succeed.

Are you talking about when you made it with NIP and fnatic, that's when you relaxed?

Precisely. I got to that point a bit too easily and when I was there I didn't feel like I had to work harder because I worked so hard to get there. So once I was there I lost my motivation, my focus to become the best. That's something I look into every day, how to feel better and perform better because this all goes together.

Do you see yourself, when you look at your situation right now, making it to the same level you made it previously in your career? Playing in a top team, playing Big Events, maybe even winning a big trophy?

I definitely see myself getting back to tier 1. I don't know if it's going to be this year, next year, or when I'm 29, but I think that I'm going to play at some top events soon. And I don't just say it to build myself up, I truly believe I have the skill to be there.