ESEA tempts with $100,000 LAN

ESEA says they are willing to disburse $100,000 for an event in North America should they get 6,000 more subscribers.

The announcement was made by co-founder Eric "lpkane" Thunberg, and is a part of taking ESEA to a new level, "all while restoring North American e-sports to the prominence it once held."

According to Thunberg, ESEA currently has approximately 14,000 paying subscribers, and for them to go through with such an event, they will require an additional 6,000 by the end of this year.

"If we hit 20,000 Premium members by the end of the year, we'll throw a massive open LAN tournament next
summer and guarantee a total prize pot of at least $100,000."

The co-founder furthermore entices that the prize fund will go to whatever games are supported by their Premium section next year and even a bring your own computer tournament.

"We'll support whatever games are part of Premium come next year, and if the community wants it, we'll make a point to throw one hell of a BYOC to go along with the main event."

ESEA have in addition made several improvements to their website and systems in order to make this happen. Read more about these and the entire announcement by clicking here.

I know that!
2011-08-24 22:42
Belarus ALBiNh0
2011-08-24 22:42
2011-08-24 22:43
2011-08-24 22:43
Paque | 
Serbia Paque
nice :D
2011-08-24 22:44
ftw !
2011-08-24 22:44
2011-08-24 22:45
Even though most people think american cs has long since dried up in comparison to euro cs, lpkane and torbull are trying to show it isnt over yet. He really does support american cs and hopefully this works.
2011-08-24 22:45
$ $ ' \___/
2011-08-24 22:46
5 replies
$ $ 0 \___/
2011-08-25 00:26
4 replies
looks like gorila ;)
2011-08-25 09:45
1 reply
2011-08-25 19:41
....$..$ ......0 ...\___/
2011-08-25 18:04
1 reply
thx m8!!
2011-08-25 19:41
6k more premium users seems kinda much :d , but meh if the guy is willing to give away 100k E it ain`t gonna be for free..
2011-08-24 22:47
8 replies
already 14k subs, so its not THAT crazy.
2011-08-24 22:56
7 replies
he got 14k subs for how many years =D?
2011-08-25 01:13
2 replies
2011-08-25 04:20
1 reply
but think about the new SC2 league, if SC players started signing up for that, then that would also add towards the remaining 6k users... and SC2 isnt as affected by latency as the other ESEA games as well as its entirely played on, not through ESEA servers. So a european league would be much easier to establish because they wouldnt have to have servers in overseas locations. They just need people to admin it. Also keep in mind, for the first 3 years, all ESEA had was pugging/scrimming/ several changes, beta phases... its really only been the past 4 years that ESEA has taken off... so i dont think its fair to say it took 8 years to get 14k... especially since at that time of creation ESEA only support 1.6 and like 10 source servers.
2011-08-26 01:06
yeah but like he is asking an increase with roughly 40% in 6 months ... i really don`t think it`s gonna happen . It all smells like a bluff to me :) , but would be glad to see that kind of a tournament in the US.
2011-08-25 09:16
uhm, look at how long he has left to get the 6k, and look how long it has taken to gather 14k sure this will probably boost the amount of subscribers, but I doubt they will make 20k, but in the end, perhaps that boost is enough for them
2011-08-25 11:42
serbian gather has 20k users...
2011-08-25 16:05
1 reply
There is generally a big difference between subs and users.
2011-08-25 17:37
2011-08-24 22:49
2011-08-24 22:49
HOLY COW! 100,000
2011-08-24 22:50
2011-08-24 22:56
do it do it do it
2011-08-24 22:56
very nice gj
2011-08-24 22:56
It took them like 7 years to get 14000 lol They arent getting 20k by end of the year
2011-08-24 22:59
2 replies
Well.. if you think about it the main subscriber rise was when their league was announced... It didn't really take '7 years' to get that much considering the fact that I would say 75% of their current premium members only became members due to the league itself. My numbers may be exaggerated here though.
2011-08-25 03:03
if the starcraft kiddies start spreading the word among themselves, it'll happen pretty quickly actually. there are more games available now then there were 7-8 years ago, with more gaming communities that can register.
2011-08-25 05:43
2011-08-24 23:03
time to go premium guise
2011-08-24 23:03
It's going to be huge. Also, its LPKANE not IPKANE. And remember, its AT LEAST 100,000 ;)
2011-08-24 23:05
1 reply
Is it 100k for cs? It says 100k for all esea supported games, sc2/tf2/cs/css? or a combined 100k pool for the event
2011-08-25 06:08
2011-08-24 23:05
we need ESEA in europe :)
2011-08-24 23:07
3 replies
we had it but seems it failed :\
2011-08-25 00:22
2 replies
Not to Fear! ESEA is making it a prominent goal of theirs to return ESEA to Europe within the next two seasons i believe. Just another reason to sign up for premium and help us reach our goal! Its kind of ur goal too, its an OPEN lan...meaning anyone can attend
2011-08-25 06:06
1 reply
That's cool. Let's just hope they cooperate with ESL so that they can work together and not like two separate entities.
2011-08-25 18:28
Use thoose money to sponsor teams so they can travel to the europe and play on lans instead.
2011-08-24 23:11
1 reply
No thats much better look. Bigger American scene = better conditions for Americas top teams to improve themself to fight with European teams on major events. Look dont you think that eSdom could make bigger damage to dominating European teams if they had more teams in their country they could practise more effectively.
2011-08-25 11:24
for what ? cs 1.6, cs:s and tf2 combined? If so, not that impressive considering e-stars had almost 80k for cs 1.6
2011-08-24 23:11
6 replies
maybe they add sc2 as well :D this would lower the amount again :D for each section but its pretty decent for the NA guys
2011-08-24 23:16
1 reply
SC2 is a game they follow aswell, if thats what ur talkin about
2011-08-25 06:07
he said ATLEAST
2011-08-24 23:26
estars covered how many european countries? ESEA has the US and Canada.
2011-08-25 05:53
my guess is 100k for all the supported games, it is not specific about 100k for just cs, I hope im wrong
2011-08-25 06:08
And? Even if it's 50k for cs 1.6 alone that's still pretty big. Far from the biggest, but big enough for it to be a major tournament.
2011-08-25 07:04
What the fuck !?? :D
2011-08-24 23:14
wat up now esea haters? WOW WOW :D
2011-08-24 23:14
2011-08-24 23:16
MAybe there is hope afterall :D?
2011-08-24 23:17
I'd rather see a lot of lans with lower prize money than just one super lan. Five lans with a $20,000 prize pool would be greater for the community imo. Still sick either way!
2011-08-24 23:20
4 replies
It's going to be the start of CPL basically. A new tournament of similar, if not greater, size every year. Or, since it's pretty early, it might start off as every other year.
2011-08-25 00:33
2 replies
That would be great. But they didn't state or even hint that they'd do this on more than one occurrence. Just next summer IF they get the subscriptions. If a yearly $100,000 lan is the idea, that's fantastic. If it's a one time thing, I say split the prize up and make a great year for cs with many lans throughout the year with still a big payout. :)
2011-08-25 00:40
1 reply
the idea is that these LANs can pretty much pay for themselves if they are done right. the difference b/t this, the CPL, and CGS is that ESEA has a longstanding track record of good business and intelligent/reliable staff that know exactly how to run their organization the right way. i think at least
2011-08-25 05:56
there was talk awhile back about esea sponsoring local lans, but nothing never came of it. I suppose one big lan makes for a better headline. ...but one lan with a 100k+ prize pot is a whole lot better than no lan
2011-08-25 04:28
2011-08-24 23:22
2011-08-24 23:25
Would be nice if ESL would do the same in EU..
2011-08-24 23:25
6 replies
IEM Finals have 275,000 $ prizepool though +3 events with 90,000 each
2011-08-24 23:42
5 replies
+1 its better have more tours with less prices than just 1 tour with a awesome price
2011-08-25 00:35
1 reply
only for us the fans :D for teams are better awesome prizes
2011-08-25 04:18
Yes thats true, But the event ESEA organized is for all the players who are registred in their database, Esl only has the Pro Series and IEM. So players with a "lower" skill wont be able to partipicate.
2011-08-25 12:13
2 replies
anyone can attend IEM GC Qualifiers.
2011-08-25 12:32
1 reply
Thats also true, But its not possible for everyone... The event ESEA organized is just for everyone who is a premium member.
2011-08-25 13:19
sure they will...
2011-08-24 23:26
mmm nice
2011-08-24 23:36
nice prize
2011-08-24 23:51
Poland dalaylama
gr8 prize
2011-08-24 23:58
let's do it!
2011-08-24 23:59 for you latin americans!
2011-08-25 00:04
Who's ready for CPL summer 2012? Uhh...I mean ESEA summer 2012!
2011-08-25 00:34
It would be interesting to know how many new premium users sign up each day in order to know at what ratio that number should increase to reach 20,000 ::)
2011-08-25 00:35
7 replies
there's a countdown on the esea website. 6,034 Premium members to go until we hit 20k and throw a massive ESEA Revival LAN - refer and win, 129 days left. Was at 6,090 yesterday.
2011-08-25 00:48
6 replies
Taking into account the pending 6,034 premium members until the deadline around 47/day would have to sign up for premium. Comparing the de/increase from yesterday to today it sounds possible but I do not know if that number is the "usual" sign up tendency the premium package has. That is why I wondered about it ;)
2011-08-25 00:57
5 replies
I would say by looking at the numbers from when this started, that the amount of change in premium members is growing by around 50 per day. Last night it was around 6050 signed up and then this morning it was around 6130 when I checked, so hopefully by looking at that we will be able to see how many new subscribers ESEA needs a day compared to how many people stop paying for ESEA.
2011-08-25 01:12
4 replies
I really did not think about the users that stop paying. Thanks for that hint. It will be interesting to see if the up and downs will in the end 'balance the ESEA books'.
2011-08-25 01:22
3 replies
The highest peak of premium subscribers should be in December due to the fact many people do not wish to pay 4 months in advance to the "end of the year". Considering prices are monthly it would make most sense that the peak times will be NOW and in December, now due to HLTV advertising to thousands of Europeans in this article and in December assuming hopefully this topic will be brought up again. EDIT: Matter of opinion of course.
2011-08-25 02:44
2 replies
HEY BUDDY :D And, why not start now? It's worth it!
2011-08-25 05:30
1 reply
Hey Brett long time no see, whats up? I've had an account in ESEA since 2007 I think? Dunno if I should get premium though, too far away :P
2011-08-25 14:09
refer me, rightz zzzzz ty
2011-08-25 00:39
I might have to un retire from cs and get myself premium here cause as an ex gamer id love to see something like this happen.
2011-08-25 00:46
they won't reach 20k. BUT, they'll probably still put on the 100k event. i'm calling it.
2011-08-25 00:51
1 reply
I hope so too.
2011-08-25 09:14
esea could be the greatest thing ever for cs but they need to get better admins and bring back europe for instance, there was a guy named zooted who pissed off an admin and called him fat (BiGG) and he got banned for like 4 years people thought i was that guy last month so i got banned for 4 years the admins are terrible
2011-08-25 00:52
10 replies
-1,ESEA killed north America CS. no one lan anymore,people end up playing a solo cs game,with no teamwork,no communication and no lan gaming,they surely killed CS in US,8 or 9 years ago,when ppl were still playing lans, theyre so many good clans with talent ppls.Top us clans ranked 1 before,now they couldnt even get close to top4,only a few left still playing cs, not because cs is not popular game anymore,because ESEA and hacker issues. NOW people still call ESEA the greatest thing? rofl,they killed Eports in here. I will never pay this league anything. north US cs failed because of it.
2011-08-25 06:18
9 replies
ESEA killed cs yes but because of one little mistake, stats oooh let me try to get a kill every round by baiting my teammates so i can have good stats and i wont be judged by everyone! atleast make stats able to be private because stats ruined esea which ruined cs lol
2011-08-25 06:33
No. That had nothing to do with ESEA. Teamless baiters always existed, you just didn't play against them. It was basically CGS (and newer games) that killed NA CS, not ESEA. You've never even played ESEA (or at least not in the last 3 years or so), so I don't understand how you can comment on it. Let's not forget that E-sports was never as big here in the U.S. as it was in Sweden or other European countries, add that to the fact that running a LAN event is MUCH harder as the travel distance for teams is HUGE which makes successful LANs hard to run.
2011-08-25 07:10
4 replies
rofl.How long have you been around CS?lol,if you say E-sports was never as big here in the U.S,i think you are very wrong,Im from dallas area,they use to have lan events like every months,there use to be like 30 top lan clans all over nation,before cal was built,there are 4 different leagues.We were very much like Germany with E-sports.It'd been very popular back then. I have to agree with you that CGS did give a kick for killing CS,but it's not because of that,3 major things:1CGS trying to bring CSS to people(fail league just as esea),2,cpl group(cal nation league fall aparts).3 ESEA came out. I think in these 3 reasons, ESEA is the biggest mistake that they ever do,to give people single access to play scrim.That changed the idea of CS's team perform.A lot of people use to lan together and compete with top ppl in nation,now just ppls try to show people their shooting skill and care about no 1. I also would want to say that Modern warfare is another reason that cs died here,a lot of ppl went to this kind of less skilled games for fun.Then they brought XBOX and PS console to steam which is the a boost to kill cs. I think the worst thing ever happened to cs in US is that when ESEA came out,there isnt a national league of 1.6 for a long while,before they even build cevo.Now a lot of younger age ppl think ESEA is the best way to learn to play better cs in US.
2011-08-25 08:07
when you say that E-sports never been as big here in the U.S. as it was in Sweden or other European countries,do you even know these clan names? Dop,X3,zEx,wew,rs,Tec,rival,tsg,GB,ect. I think you maybe new to cs back then
2011-08-25 08:12
i dont want to play it because I wont support anything to bring CS down,I know things' been changed with ESEA league since a lot of my younger friends are playing it as a clan,still I dont think ESEA can compare with the old CAL league.Iv been staying with CS like over 9 or 10 years,if I say Cal is the league to boost CS to the public,then ESEA is the league to kill CS in the end.if ESEA can help US clans ,why 7 or 8 years ago,we can beat the europen teams, 5 years ago ,we still can win VS them,now? any blackhorse left like old WEW and zEx?any clan left like former coL and 3D? LOL.So many talent ppl waste on ESEA,they couldnt read the game,they never learn to play as a team.thats all i wanna say.
2011-08-25 08:27
like i said dude stats killed esea and esea killed american cs all esea had to do from the start is risk it and open up lan centers, take away stats and bam you have amazing stuff
2011-08-25 16:06
Brazil hugoooo
CGS killed NA CS scene, that's a fact, not even an opinion
2011-08-25 07:30
stupid, cs in na wouldnt exist w/o esea. no1 needs to argue.
2011-08-25 09:34
1 reply
"SMART THINKIN" Nothing fan,rofl. how old are u really???
2011-08-25 10:13
cakebuilder will fuck mtw sk fx :D
2011-08-25 00:53
1 reply
LOL cakebuilder is so going to link these videos for anyone who hasnt seen such an amazing display of unique skill
2011-08-25 06:11
why would i subscribe to esea just so i could watch eg, or temporary win 100k?
2011-08-25 00:53
6 replies
"If we hit 20,000 Premium members by the end of the year, we'll throw a massive open LAN tournament next summer and guarantee a total prize pot of at least $100,000." it says an open lan tournament, not an esea team only tournament.
2011-08-25 01:02
5 replies
I doubt it would make much of a difference as any of those teams would still be among the top contenders for the cash at stake. An A and B tournament would be interesting though.
2011-08-25 01:30
yes but what random team is gonna beat EG or temp or bfire? I dont really see any other team in america beating them, especially when it comes to 100k prize...
2011-08-25 04:32
3 replies
100k prize is going to attract many many international teams, that's the whole point.
2011-08-25 05:27
2 replies
It says 100k total prize pool for the supported games of esea (Cs/Csource/Sc2/Tf2)
2011-08-25 08:07
1 reply
total prize pool of "AT LEAST" 100k, it gonna be more than that.
2011-08-25 20:12
yep esea could work on the integrity of its admins... Not everyone of them tho, most of them are very nice and fair, but some of them are douche. But eh what can you expect from the employees when the co-owner is known as the best troll ever.
2011-08-25 00:54
1 reply
torbull is awesome and i respect him 100% because of 3D and interviews hes a funny dude lpkane is cool and funny on the forums but hes using esea money to buy shit like real estate which he should be using that to put up lan centers and host tournaments, hes a douche sometimes but sometimes not a moody fellow i would say bigg is a fucking fat troll fuck i hate him plz get rid of him lpkane
2011-08-25 16:13
2011-08-25 01:03
1 reply
2011-08-25 01:11
and if they get 19 999 subs
2011-08-25 01:25
2 replies
Argentina sebaxinho
they will not do the tournament
2011-08-25 04:04
they'll do it of course
2011-08-25 09:37
mb its all just cuz of the dota2 and what they've done is just to spare a little bit from the share you know what 1 million and 0.9 million dont make much difference
2011-08-25 01:41
good luck esea , we can do it
2011-08-25 01:52
20,000 users at 7 dollars a month is 140,000 dollars a month, so they will only pocket 40,000 instead of the 140,000 for ONE month and throw a lan. This is not a revival this is an attempt to make more money @ the cost of advertising during a crisis where players are afraid of losing their favorite game. I know they dont pocket everything obviously they have expenses, staff,web hosting, servers but still the numbers dont make sense either way you look at it
2011-08-25 02:53
16 replies
they said AT LEAST 100k , it will probably be more than that.
2011-08-25 03:07
2 replies
they wont get 20k users either way, its over 5 years old and still they are at 12k, this is a marketing technique that will in fact make them money regardless of the outcome, plain and simple.
2011-08-25 04:33
1 reply
lpkane is filthy rich , he could have done several other things if his aim was to make money.
2011-08-25 13:35
North American cs lives on esea. There are basically no teams competing except in esea league, none scrimming except on esea servers, etc. If cs will survive in NA, it will do so on esea, and if it is to grow, right now the only way is if esea grows. So, although I agree with you that this helps esea, what you miss is that what is good for esea is good for NA cs.
2011-08-25 04:39
12 replies
Im not missing the fact that US scene is only going because of esea, I already understand that. What you need to realize is that there is no chance that they will field 6,000 new premium users, this is a final attempt for esea to make some money off of cs before they make a drastic change or call it quits. Look at how many teams are signed up for the leagues, its pathetic, I know for a fact.
2011-08-25 05:58
8 replies
15k users, not 12k. Number of teams in league has been growing basically every season. This will not make them money unless they're getting a lot of sponsors for the LAN, because most people that sign up because of this won't stick around. They don't make 140k a month since many of the 15k only pay $6 a month and the cost of maintenance, salaries, server-up keep, etc. cut into it.
2011-08-25 07:13
7 replies
lets do some simple math here, they need 20k users, they have 14k, 20-14=6. How will this not make them any money? @ 7 dollars a month fee for premium, 20,000x7= 140000 total. 140000-100000= 400000. And that is just for one month, and I already said that those totals are not minus payroll/web fee/servers even though the servers are crap. 6k new users are not only going to sign up for just one month, a good percentage of them will sign up for at least a few more months. If that is not profit then I have no idea what is. When tournaments are run with these regulations "IF we get 6,000 more users to pay 7 dollars a month by the end of the year" they are desperate measures and they dont help the community, they just make the company more money. The number of teams in the league is def not going up lol, are you kidding me? Cs is not bringing in new players in the US, kids are not playing cs as a new game, its on a 15 year old HL1 engine and has not been updated in years, its not exactly eye candy for new gamers.
2011-08-25 07:32
6 replies
What? They're not getting 20k new users, they're getting 5k new users. That is $35,000 extra, which means each person would need to buy ~3 months for them to make a profit off the tournament. Obviously the company wants to get more money, just like EVERY SINGLE BUSINESS IN THE WORLD. But them getting more money means they put more money into CS, which benefits the community too. The number of teams in the league has gone up every single season (not sure about the current season, but the 8 before that have been going up) there are new (I mean played the game less than 3 months type of new) players on ESEA and new teams aren't always new players, just more people getting active competitively.
2011-08-25 07:40
4 replies
I did not say that they need 20k new users man, I said they need a total of 20k users, and that they currently have 14k and need 6k, I tried to keep it as simple as possible for you to understand. Also your second comment makes 0 sense, if they have 20k users total that is 140k total for that month of gross, which means that they can run the tournament off of the gross of that month, I dont see why your saying that they would need 3 months, it does not all have to come from the new users. If you look at the big picture, 20k users 140k gross that month, 100k tourny they can afford it off of one month. Obviously the whole intention on running a business is for the profits, I am only pointing out facts that this has MORE benefits for them than the Community. Any way you look at it, this wont revive the cs scene in NA, its an old game, new kids arent picking up cs and playing, they are playing new console games or newer pc games. This is not revamping cs, this is just using a marketing idea to make money in the long run, and to attempt to keep esea from going under in the future.
2011-08-25 07:48
3 replies
No, no. What I'm saying is that they can just NOT run this tournament and keep 14/15k subs which would make them more money than getting 5k new subs (35,000 dollars) would. Yes, it has more benefits to them than the community, but the benefits to the community are still good, so there is no reason to make ESEA out to be a bad guy.
2011-08-25 07:53
2 replies
Its a marketing technique I cant explain it any more than that honestly. Run a successful tourney, people like it, they keep subscribing. Just last week Dota 2 ran a 1.6 million dollar tourny, the game has not even been released yet. First place was 1 million dollars. Why do you think they did this? Because they are going to make alot more money in the long run then you would think. Its all a marketing technique.
2011-08-25 08:00
1 reply
you mean a company wants to make money? OMG!
2011-08-25 09:44
wtf are you talking about.. are you on esea? every season the cs 1.6 league is bigger more and more team register every season
2011-08-25 17:12
rofl,because of ESEA,no 1 play in major lan games anymore,they dont need teammates,they dont care what team means,kids get on ESEA for solo games,thats y no US clan or team can win VS europen clans.rofl,call it good league??? where are the people playing CS? I think US cs is kind of dead just like China,no social group ppl supporting means it's dead to me,even when esea is holding online league,but it's a joke league to me,never bring any top clans to be top 4 in the world. they learn how to frag,but not how to win.because ppl just buy subscribtion and play solo, they dont know each other,they play their own game,they bait their own teammate to frag.ESEA make it happened,thats why US clan couldnt win vs europen clans.They dont have people to compete that lvl,cause no 1 cares about it in this league,fail league.
2011-08-25 06:30
United States vaz
Same for Latin American scene. We still play the game thanks to ESEA and we play in NA servers with 70/80/90 or even 100+ ping... cheaters are just too much off client. You guys must consider that ESEA is a hit in Brazil, Venezuela, Mexico, Colombia and Guatemala and the rest of Latin America. Soon we are gonna have our LA league, etc. So yes, ESEA is something good and it's gonna be better... LA community is so young, time will tell.
2011-08-25 17:25
1 reply
thank you
2011-08-26 05:25
2011-08-25 03:07
2011-08-25 03:53
I see alot of people posting on ESEA coming to europe. It IS going to happen, torbull said it is a prominent goal of theirs to do within the next few seasons. Plus there are other games to play here besides SC2..all of which are reasons to become a member if you havnt alresdy....become part of something BIG
2011-08-25 06:13
30 replies
They already attempted that a while ago and it failed, it wont be different this time either way. Why would europeans pay monthly to play an online league when they already have many free options available.
2011-08-25 06:36
29 replies
That attitude is why CS is dying to be honest. It's another league offering thousands of dollars to competitors, but people don't want to spend $5 a month because there are (shitty) free alternatives available.
2011-08-25 07:15
27 replies
ESL is a shitty alternative? Europeans do not have to pay monthly to get what they need, Esea will never be able to compete with such prestigious leagues, Esea is about making money for the owners, not about giving back to the community. Simple and plain, what has Esea done so far for the community? Nothing, except for breed shit players that can not compete on the internation level, and only care about "my fpr bro". Now all of a sudden if they can get up to 20k premium users they will throw a 100k tourny for the games that premium supports. Lets call it revival, revival of what? It does not specify anywhere that the 100k is a prizepool for cs1.6, it says a total of at least 100k for the games supported by esea, which are Cs/Source/Sc2/tf2 so far.
2011-08-25 07:43
26 replies
One league (ESL) is better. If you're satisfied with having a single (good) league then be my guest, but I wouldn't put any of the other alternatives as better. And what? Lpkane help set up Arbalet Dallas, ESEA has run a LAN every year for NA teams (and even ran a few for semi-pro teams), as well as holding the league every year. To say they do nothing for the community is a joke. ESL is about making money too. If you think they would be continuing what they do while losing money you are seriously delusional.
2011-08-25 07:46
16 replies
Considering that ESEA league is also Pay to play, your point is not valid to any extent. You have to pay the league fee, and have to keep paying for premium throughout the whole season (roughly 3-4 months) There could be 1000 open teams and the open prize pool is still the same, the rest goes to the Invite lan tourney at the end of every season for the top invite teams. I can keep going if you would like, I know what im talking about here Lets say 150 teams in open, thats a little over $24,000 dollars in total gross that they have to pay to play out the entire season. What is the prize pool for open? there is only 1 winner, and I dont think its anywhere near 24k for open.
2011-08-25 07:54
15 replies
Yes, you have to pay for 2 months of premium and the league fee, which is under $20. To me, that's more than worth it for being able to use their pug/scrim servers as well as the league. You can spend $20 for 2 hours of entertainment at the movies, spending $20 for 3 months of it (and a shot at money) is more than worth it imo. And the money going towards invite is the best possible thing honestly, the open/im/main teams should be working towards getting into invite, where they can compete for the real money. Giving teams incentive to compete and get into invite is better than encouraging main/low invite teams to keep remaking and winning a large ESEA-O prize pool, or at least that's how I feel. Anyway, time to get something to eat.
2011-08-25 07:57
14 replies
Its more than 2 months, its 3 to 4 months when you count playoffs and it could be even more counting the amount you need to practice with your team beforehand. Considering that mIRC is dead in the US, and what scrims you can find off client are 90% cheaters. I think the prize pool could be alot better thought out than the way it currently is, considering that open division always has the most amount of teams signed up, and the prize pool is very low for the amount of money it actually brings in. cheers
2011-08-25 08:05
13 replies
OK allow me to tell you exactly how wrong you are 1.) That 6 dollars a month gives u the opportunity to play pickup games at will without needing 5 players, stats recorded, all your scrims and pugs recorded and archived, access to prizes/events/challenges 2.)Kane has made ESEA, given away thousands IN CASH(which to my knowledge is something that cannot be said for ANY other league)to season winners for 8 seasons. Amongst other things, they have done random and challende prize giveaways, hosted arbalet dallas, and now are potentially holding the 100k tourny. To say the dont give back is ignorance on your part. 3.) ESEA does not "breed" shit teams. It is the SOLE american league and EG have competed outside the country several times, now UMX aswell. The reason these teams dont get the chance to play outside the country is because of lack of sponsors,not their lack of skill. 4.)The prize pot is lower on the lower divisions to keep people trying to reach invite, and to put in the time and practice. Why should ESEA hand out 10k to a pug open team made up with invite players when their playing against people less skilled than themselves. The prize system is desinged to reward those who put in the time and practice. You clearly are ignorant and uninformed...dont make us look bad when clearly you have little to no idea what your talking about
2011-08-25 09:12
12 replies
+1, bunch of troll saying otherwise and putting ESEA down.
2011-08-25 09:40
I think there's truth to both sides of the debate about ESEA. It has pros and cons. It's definitely not all good or all bad. But that doesn't mean we should accept the major flaws just because there are good things there. The bottom line is that ESEA has a great deal of room for improvement.
2011-08-25 10:24
rofl,ask ESEA who the F pay for the hosted arbalet dallas?DID they pay?also EG fail so many times not because of the lack of sponsors(they have the best sponsors in NA),dont use that as an excuse because they suks at internation event. 1st time i heard people saying solo american league can make them better rofl,if you ever heard of CS is based on teamskill,not individual. Also,check out who play in ESEA besides pro-gamer(they couldnt find good scrim),kids under 20 without any idea about how to read the game,they play it becasue they want to frag,they dont care wtf win,they have no idea what it take to win.thats why there arent any good clan left in US.Younger age kid have understanding problems. i more word i want to ask you,ask people around you and see how old are they when they play ESEA,are they under 21? ROFL,joke league,and people still defending it.Who cares,if people think they had fun then they should do it,but US cs fail because of these people,thats y these isnt any good one left from young age to play this game.
2011-08-25 10:30
3 replies
first off your english skills fucking blow...just throwing that out there Anyways, 1.)No such thing as individual skill? Go aim map v.s. geT_right and tell me that. CS is a team based game, that doesnt have anything to do with the fact that there is or isnt individual skill. If there was no such thing as individual skill then the skill gap in this game would not be so great between inexperienced and experienced players 2.)How do you know how old everyone is on ESEA? Do you have an account? And for your information we have people as young as 12 and people such as GRT and Jame^s from Green Berets who are both in their high 20s and probly have been playing since uve been in diapers...nice try 3.)People dont buy ESEA just for shits and giggles....they buy ESEA because ESEA has the best players in North America...instead of playing in public servers without client protection 4.):"younger age kid have understanding problems" besides that being an ironic statement with that horrible english, no one ever ever took a stab at anyones nationality until you, so clearly you have some serious anti-american hatred brewing inside of you This isnt an attempt to bash on anyone or go cut-throat to defend ESEA, but it seriously bothers me when ignorant people post dumb stuff on forums they clearly have no idea about, let alone barely be able to type out in english EDIT:for the remark about arbalet. Im sure arbalet paid for the tourny winnings...IDK what ur trying to prove with that but it was also their choice to run along with ESEA for the event to make it bigger, and ESEA did pay the winners of the ESEA LAN tourny( at the same venue)ON THE SPOT IN CASH. What other league you know that does that?
2011-08-25 13:01
2 replies
rofl at least i can talk in another language,some nub only only know 1 language(their own one's) ,and blame others,and thinking they'r better than other. if you think ESEA works better than other leagues you should pay for it and play it.Iv seen this country CS failed after ESEA come to the stage.I dont think any ppls from US now can compete the same lvl as 3D and former coL did before.Right now EG is the top clan in NA and they can only win inside of NA.check all the ESEA top clans and see the lan records, and check out legend 3D record that can tell you why they success,they use to have 77-2 lan record with lan gaming. ROFL,the only reason I judge ESEA by ppl's age is that youger ppl doesnt have any guide or any idea about this game,they have talent and want to show it,but they never learn to understand teamwork,they think they can shoot then they will win,nothing is an example.Im not saying US is the only country with this problem,but surely I thinkg ESEA this kind of league make it happened.rofl if im anti-american,i will then just support ESEA in order to see people fail,Iv played and stay with CS for over 10 years,Iv seen CS raise to the peak of the hill,iv also seen it failed in US.I do all of this becasue i love CS, i love this country just as much as you do,even im a foreigner.The only hater in here is said esea pay for the arbalet cup dallas,I went to their event, and i dont think theyr the one paying it,if you dont know the information,dont act like you do.It's the only big international lan event last year and ESEA didnt pay for that event. PS:if ESEA is this good like you said go support it,I will not stop you now.In my mind no matter what we do,CS is dead in US. If you dont mind,can i ask how old are you?
2011-08-25 20:07
1 reply
im 25, and everything i posted i know for a idk how ur saying i dont know what im talking about rofl. If i didnt have to go to work, id argue my point further....LOL @ u saying n0thing cant play aswell
2011-08-25 21:30
clearly you are involved with esea and trying to clear up the name, I really have no interest in this, you cant win either way. Everything I stated is factual, you just re wrote it in a different way.
2011-08-26 04:53
2 replies
I honestly could care less about the LAN, i wont be attending anyways. My anger is totally toward people like yourself who probly havnt even BEEN a premium member, or have ANY knowledge of ESEA whatsoever trying to make us look like a bunch of assholes when were not. The problem really lies tho, in the fact that every person online feels like they are right, so you will never be able to see the ignorance of some of your statements and its sad
2011-08-26 05:22
1 reply
Here you go again trying to defend your employers, I already told you that you cant win. What else would you do but try to make me look like I dont know what im talking about. I have been premium up til recently for about 4 years I know EXACTLY what I am talking about, dont get it twisted there. Like I already stated, all your efforts in trying to make me sound like I dont have a clue are failing horribly, very un professional of you to say the least, have a good 1.
2011-08-26 10:39
And to go through your list 1) its not 6 its 7 a month, and honestly who cares about challenges that give you 250 esea pts 2) Thats because the league charges you for premium and for league fee, obviously they would give some sort of things away and most if not all of the items they give away are given to them from sponsors such as pny and dust off and random mousepad companys 3) Yes it does breed shit players for the sole reason of recording pug stats, the pugs are 1v9's not 5v5's yes you play even against your baiting, raging teamates who want to achieve 1 frag per round ratio to act like they are kingshit when in fact the stats they have for scrims/league are horrible and those are the ones that actually matter somewhat. 4) The only problem I have is how low the open prize pool is for the fact of how much it actually grosses No im not misinformed, what I said is fact, thank you and have a good day and try to keep your trolling just on Esea forums please, much appreciated.
2011-08-26 05:10
2 replies
Gonna have to side with Xecution and firegun here. I don't like to defend ESEA, but I can't argue that CS in America would be dead without it. The thing is though, that's only true because there isn't a better alternative. ESEA has serious problems and is one of the reasons the competition in America is being held down. ESEA teaches younger players that aim and fragging is an end in itself, rather than one very insignificant means to the end of winning with your team - firegun is right on the mark here. Also, the online-centric focus of ESEA will ultimately be CS's downfall because CS is not a game to be played with 60 ping versus 80 ping - it was always meant to be played with LAN ping, plain and simple. Ping and bad servers adds a random dice-rolling element to the game and destroys some of the competitiveness. Finally, ESEA does seem to have this cynical money-making focus with the attitude of "we're a monopoly, we do what we want" matched with poor customer service and an automated system that fails to handle the problems that come up for its users. ESEA is given an F grade by the Better Business Bureau - that speaks for itself. If you want more info, I know people that have been wrongly banned for cheating (Torbull later ADMITTED wrong doing and gave him 3 free months), I know people who have been trying to cancel their subscription for months and can't, etc.
2011-08-26 08:14
1 reply
2011-08-26 10:40
I've been reading your comments and I've gotta say... you're an absolute moron. Unless Valve completely rips off ESEA, their business model will continue to grow once CS:GO is released. ESEA is better than all of the shitty leagues in Europe for one simple reason, it's profitable. Name one league in Europe that isn't completely dependent on third party sponsors? You can't name one because they don't exist. Does ESEA have sponsors? Yes... but they don't need them because of their business model. Other leagues envy ESEA. American players don't have poor teamwork because of ESEA... we have poor teamwork because there's not many good teams playing over here anymore. Once CS:GO is released you'll see an influx of US players and a ton of new teams. Then we'll be raping everyone in Europe (with the exception of a few teams) just like we did when 1.6 and Source were released.
2011-08-25 15:30
8 replies
No offense but i think this statement "we have poor teamwork because there's not many good teams playing over here anymore." is questionable cause I believe that there's so much talent in US as it was in the past. If you have as much talent as in the past but now you're struggle to compete, there must be something wrong with the system. Yes, undoubtly CGS would be one of the major reason for that, but i dont think that's the only one responsible for that. If you compare it with Europe, in this case Sweden, you can see how they can maintain to produce new talents to shine at big stage. First NiP-SK era comes to an end, then fnatic took the baton alongside with SK, afterward Lions is tailing the both, not to mention MYM, a2g and so on.. as for US, you can see by yourself.
2011-08-25 16:47
How is esea going to continue to grow with the release of CS GO? You call me a moron but you have no idea what your saying, CS GO has a MatchMaking system built in. It also runs off of a VALVE SERVER, there wont be any need for a 3rd party server to play on. I highly doubt that any league envies esea, give me a reason why they would? Because of money? I really dont think that everyone involved in gaming is about making money, and if they make money its just considered a plus, at the end of the day you do what you love even if the money isnt always there. I cant say that for Esea, who is rated a F on the better business bureau, which is the lowest possible grade. Obviously customers arent happy with esea, but they have to pay to play cs in the US. Thats just how a monopoly works
2011-08-26 11:10
6 replies
You've further cemented my opinion that you're mentally retarded. ESEA isn't even a member of the BBB... why don't you read that page. Business aren't required to work with the BBB and that's why ESEA has an F you idiot. They don't answer BBB complaints. You obviously know nothing about business or esports so I'm just going laugh and pretend you don't exist. Idiot.
2011-08-26 13:48
5 replies
Obviously they are not part of it, thats the whole point isnt it? You need to be approved to be able to sport the seal. Also your point that cs go will help esea, why havent you elaborated on that, that was your main point and it is not valid at all, who looks like they are mentally challenged, I believe its you who is making an ass of themselves.
2011-08-27 02:25
4 replies
CS:GO = More CS players = More ESEA subscriptions. It's pretty simple. Just because CS:GO has matchmaking doesn't mean that ESEA is going to magically disappear. Do you really think VAC is going to be updated as frequently or as good at catching cheaters as the ESEA client? Is Valve going to host 100tick 1000fps customizeable servers all over the world to appeal to competitive gamers? Is Valve going to start a huge league and hold LAN tournaments with cash prizes? Are leagues that rely only on sponsor support for revenue sustainable business models? NO, NO, NO and NO. Furthermore, it's already been stated that the PC version of CS:GO doesn't only run on Valve servers... that's mainly only for consoles and PC noobs. Maybe you should pay a bit more attention and get a better understanding of e-sports before making yourself look like an ignorant fool on these forums.
2011-08-27 03:19
3 replies
just like esea cant run sc2 servers, they wont be able to run cs go servers, just like esea cant get any of that SC2 money they wont get any of the cs go money its a simple concept. Valve wants to keep it all in the family and if esea wants a piece they have to bring something to the table and be accepted. Maybe your the one who needs to learn about the concept before airing out your feelings. Once again I will wait for another useless comment from you
2011-08-27 03:20
2 replies
"Valve was keen on hearing the input from top CSS players to make CS GO an e-sports title and that is reflected by the game featuring both casual and competitive game modes with a built in match making system and support for dedicated servers." -Torbull So ESEA won't be able to run dedicated servers? You're fucking stupid.
2011-08-27 04:07
1 reply
+1...he says "they want to keep it sll in the family" im sure thats why they invite Torbull to be one of the first people to test out CS:GO...btw its pointless arguing with this kid...hes determined hes right, and im pretty sure his parents dont let him go to recess without his helmet on...
2011-08-27 07:23
read my other post....ESEA has alot more to offer including stats, free demo recording and archiving, prizes,competitions, and all the league prizes
2011-08-26 05:08
once this is split amongst the various games there will be no individual game with a huge prize pool, although i'm sure sc2 and cs will have a pretty significant one...if this happens
2011-08-25 07:17
3 replies
yeah, its a 100k lan event, not cs event. right?
2011-08-25 07:56
2 replies
I really think the way its read is the way it will be, from the info they have given out it really seems like its going to be 100k total for all supported games, it does not say specifically for cs.
2011-08-25 08:05
1 reply
yeah but majority would go to 1.6 for sure, then source then tf2, anyway it would be a nice prize pot :)
2011-08-25 08:40
Here i come ~
2011-08-25 07:43
Give ESEA in europe, or gtfo
2011-08-25 09:00
This is awesome ESEA =D
2011-08-25 09:13
Big news, sounds awesome~!
2011-08-25 09:14
5,957 Premium members to go until we hit 20k and throw a massive ESEA Revival LAN - refer and win, 129 days left
2011-08-25 09:43
14,000 paying subscribers after like 6 years and they expect 6,000 subscribers in 4 months time. not going to happen. why post this news.
2011-08-25 09:59
2 replies
advertising,lol. they need more people.
2011-08-25 10:32
we got 100 just today. Plus as stated numerous other times ESEA now has more games such as SC2 and hopefully in 2 seasons or a little more well be back in Europe! Thats Y :-D
2011-08-25 12:56
2011-08-25 10:25
1 reply
2011-08-25 10:30
BYOC sux :S
2011-08-25 11:05
100'000$, seriously who cares about US-Dollars? This currency is going down....
2011-08-25 11:33
2 replies
lol.....they could have offered out a life time supply of corn flakes would that make you happy? :-P
2011-08-25 12:57
dv | 
United Kingdom dv-_-
It's still roughly 70'000 Euro. Hardly dinner money.
2011-08-25 13:44
wow , nice :D
2011-08-25 13:05
First of all this is a bluff, second of all ESEA does not have $100K to give away. ESEA is a monopoly in North America, theres no chance of finding a legit scrim/pug outside of ESEA. I have used ESEA off and on for about 6 years, everything "firegun" said in his posts are true, no one cares about teamwork, no one communicates, no one helps/cares...and all they care about is their FPR. Heres the link to ESEAs Better Business Bureau profile - - rating F, 8 complaints filed against business, Failure to respond to 8 complaints filed against business. ESEA is all about making money, they dont care for their customers, providing poor servers and admin support. ESEA is partly the reason for the demise of CS in NA.
2011-08-25 13:24
3 replies
rofl you are so stupid if you dont wanna pug just scrim wtf
2011-08-25 19:12
North america use to have like 30 great clans and many more lan-clan before.US CS's lvl use to be just as same as SWE's lvl before.When eoL beat every team in europ,and they came to CPL dallas,zEx brought them down.3D use to be the only team can shake former Nip,and SK.swe;former coL became #1 in the world won many time vs European clans.NOW after ESEA was built,what do we have?EG? lol many clan die after CGS and ESEA came out,and they still support it? ESEA company want to make money,they dont care about how CS is gonna be.Once it died in US i wonder what money they will get? ps:one thing i dont know it's why when CPL is back,they didnt bring CAL back.That's the best league we had before,if they have the money to support cpl they should have money to do CAL as well.
2011-08-25 20:24
2011-08-26 10:51
Looooook at, DotA2,$1,000,000 :(
2011-08-25 14:05
ya ya ya 100 000 $ sure ! i am 200 % sure that they will lower the prize till the end of the tournament or they will have financial issues and reduce it by 50 % or that clasic "sponsor problem" who cares !
2011-08-25 14:15
2 replies
esea has always paid out league winnings fully and right away, and the league prize pot is not hugely smaller,e.g., this season's is $70k+ I'd say you're 200% sure and 100% wrong.
2011-08-25 15:35
United States vaz
ESEA always pays on time, you are 100% wrong...
2011-08-25 18:46
2011-08-25 15:25
I am Russian!
2011-08-25 16:32
2011-08-25 17:23
United States vaz
You must consider lpkane is talking about a BIG LAN not only for NA... CPL Dallas? ESEA Dallas! be sure about our Latin teams will be there, the only little thing is the visas issues but that's not a problem for EU. 100K? I think SK Gaming, NaVi and many others would be interested.
2011-08-25 17:27
2011-08-25 17:55
These fuck backs are funny
2011-08-25 19:28
i once tried to play in ESSEA but i got lost in their web, and you must pay money to them in order to play, thats bullshit. i dont believe they get so much premium people who would like to spend their money on playing some matches lolz
2011-08-25 19:39
2 replies
There is no other choice to play competitively in the US.
2011-08-27 02:29
1 reply
theres public servers everywhere....u make it sound like we put a gun to your head
2011-08-27 07:24
and theres why ESWC is not a major CS tournament anymore.
2011-08-25 20:04
ESEA LAN FINAL = ESWC ESEA 100K LAN > ESWC damn never would of thought
2011-08-25 21:08
You guys missed the point where it says "Atleast 100k".. Lpkane himself quoted someone saying its ATLEAST 100k, so chances are it will be more. chill4mebros.
2011-08-25 22:56
ESEA killed cs. Nobody scrims off-client anymore, so anybody who wants to try out the game or plays casually every once in a while is excluded from the community because of the $7/month cost. If you think ESEA is being generous, think for a second: 20,000 x 7 = $140,000. The amount ESEA makes in a month can already pay for 150% of the prize pool.
2011-08-25 23:42
2 replies
you dont think ESEA has expenses they have to pay? Dont they have to pay their employees? How about servers? How bout prize pots at the end of the season? Not to mention im sure they would actually like to get some sort of profit...this IS there job. There not going to collect all 140k and just redistribute it....that wouldnt be a business. Do you people think before you post, or do u just let ur fingers do all the thinking for u as ur typing out these lies
2011-08-27 07:26
1 reply
Don't forget they also have to pay for chronies like you to defend them in public forums!
2011-08-29 06:58
Something else I would like to add, is that ESEA admins/owners treats its users like crap. Admins openly flame/ban their own customers on the forums. I am not a victim, I am making this point just to point out some hypocrisy. ESEA does not provide anything besides servers, stats, and anti-cheat. Sure, these are minor things that we enjoy, but when I ask you "what do you enjoy most out of cs", nobody would answer any of those. We get enjoyment out of the brilliantly made game. Out of the competition and the community/pro-scene behind it. ESEA didn't create any of these two things. The game was already made and already popular. The community/pro-scene was already there and ESEA just leeched off of it slowly until they had a monopoly. Now that ESEA has a monopoly, when we want to enjoy a game made by gooseman/valve, when we want to interact with the community created by us, the players, we have to give ESEA $7 a month. Can you see where I am getting at? Two biggest factors, the game and the community, which ESEA had no part in creating, serves as ESEA's main selling point. And ESEA still has the audacity to flame its own users, who are part of the community, and part of the reason how ESEA can charge money.
2011-08-25 23:55
4 replies
you cant tell that half of the posts here trying to push for this to happen are Esea affiliates. I agree with you completley.
2011-08-26 04:55
Now see, THESE are valid points for discussion, thx for not just flaming us like some of these other retards. I can see what you mean when your talking about the admin abuse, Kane and biGG can be a little harsh, and while i might not agree with their sometimes sarcastic demeanor, I can assure you (since ive been a premium member for years) That 95% of the bans that are handed out are warranted, and are usually users that join the community for trolling/cheating/fighting with admins etc. Secondly, the reason they have a monopoly is because of the lack of other leagues to play. And you cant say that they are really STEALING your right to play CS, when the option to play public servers are still there. ESEA is just a place for the better american players to play pickup games, and being able to play competitive CS whenever they want, something you cant find in pubs(ive never seen a 5v5 pub)
2011-08-26 05:18
I agree, although ESEA has helped revive a slowly dying community why must everyone who plays competitive CS pay them 7$/month? I personally am banned for violating a league rule(a dumb rule at that), and now for the past month I have not been able to play any CS whatsoever because the North American community revolves around ESEA. In addition, you can see that ESEA is clearly about the money. They will do everything they can to make sure they get as much of it as possible. For example, if you were to buy a 1 month subscription on a credit card via PayPal, ESEA will automatically bill that account monthly without ones authorization even though you had only wanted to buy a 1 month subscription. To make matters worse you cannot cancel your membership on their website. In order for you to completely get rid of your subscription one must go through a lengthly process of cancelling it through your PayPal account. To me it does not seem that they have the community's best interest at heart. Instead they will suck every last penny they can get out of you because they can, for it is the only way anyone of us in North America can play competitive CS. Whether it be the monthly payments, or the league entrance fees that increase with the skill level one is playing at, ESEA really only has their own interest at heart.
2011-08-29 07:53
1 reply
Well said. I have encountered the same problem before as well. ESEA has an option for you to pay for a friend's premium status with your own paypal. I did that, and did not realize that ESEA signs you up for automatic monthly subscription even if you pay for a friend. What is the logic behind that? Does ESEA expect everyone who pays for their friend to be committing to a monthly payment? There is no section of the website that manages your subscriptions. They also don't ask you whether it is a one-time payment or not. They just automatically bill you. I didn't notice until I had paid 5 months for my friend, who had quit the game way since.
2011-08-29 08:00
Going to be hysterical when Cs:go comes out and its actually good, and you dont need to buy servers anymore. Looking forward to what Esea will be able to offer when that happends. Nothing but a League, will they still charge you for premium? I bet they dont even make it to that point of the future, and this is a final attempt to milk out whatever they can from the US cs players.
2011-08-26 04:57
3 replies
please.....stop posting this shit when YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT. 1.) CSGO probly isnt going to be good, because valve usually doesnt do anything right when it comes to CS. Inviting ONLY the source players was a first step in the wrong direction for this game, and from what Ive heard its already sounding like a disaster 2.)ESEA wont make it til next year? Are you serious? ESEA continues to grow each year which there ARE statistics to back this up, and the number of premium members continues to rise 3.)This is a final attempt to milk out whatever they can? This is an attempt to give back to the community for help making ESEA so big, not trying to mooch off of them If you dont support ESEA then fine, but keep your mouth shut if you havnt even looked into anything your even talking about; and before you even begin to defend yourself, your ignorant statements have already proven you have NO idea what ESEA entails
2011-08-26 05:12
2 replies
I have not stated anything but Facts, your just too ignorant to understand, or maybe you do understand but are unwilling to accept it. Yes I said it, Esea will not last another year, what exactly are they giving back to the community? As someone already stated, the BBB graded esea an F with multiple complaints filed against them. Dont try to tell me what esea is about, giving to the community is definitely not one of their PRIORITIES, they run a monopoly and they are killing if not already killed CS in the US. Oh also, too bad they cant get non of that SCII money, bnet servers ftw.
2011-08-26 10:50
1 reply
ill talk to you in a year when ESEA has grown even more with premium users BTW a fact is something that has some sort of definitive reasoning behind it, not just your clueless opinions. RLLY....The BBB??? Im not even going to go there....LOL
2011-08-27 07:28
2011-08-27 00:08
NA cs is alive, but the competitiveness is dead compared to all other parts of the world.
2011-08-27 03:55
2011-08-27 23:01
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